



S1: um, hate to break up this, party here. uh first i brought the book that i thought that i had but didn't have this morning, and uh, this is a, Atlas of Breeding Birds of Michigan, and, it's a tremendous resource, and i i'm gonna put it up in the bird lab, because, it'll be important for you to look at when you're putting together the, the project, um paper. and i'm just gonna show you for example, the Merlin. um this, side of the page has, basically a summary on biology ecology and so on, and this is a, map using breeding birds survey data, showing, um, what's known about the distribution of Merlins in the state, so you can see from the blue dots that, you know there's not a lot concentrated up here on Isle Royale, then if i just flip to uh_ give me another species. oh here i'll do it i just wanted to, uh, here's the cowbird for example <EXPRESSIONS OF AMAZEMENT> so, anyway, it's very nice because each species is, is uh, has a record in here and you hafta remember from what i said this morning, there are some species where that_ the data are a lot better than, than others so, some of these are, probably, a lot more, accurate than for the more secretive species but (i wouldn't even know about that) 
S2: how old is that book Mary?
S1: um, about ninety-one i believe or, ninety, or ninety-one... nineteen ninety-one <P :06> okay this afternoon uh, my plans are to talk to you about avian conservation and management in the United States, uh, there's obviously a much, uh broader picture, that we could be looking at but, i wanna focus in the United States, um, for a number of reasons, and, i've done a couple things on the blackboard, this is uh, what i put together are some stages of conservation and management in the U-S and i'm gonna kinda go through these, and talk about why these are important to birds, and, over here is um, our s- a list of some important pieces of legislation, as they resol- as they relate to, uh birds as individual species and populations, and, the first thing that, i wanna do is kind of, go through and talk about these general stages and then i'm gonna show you some slides, with some selected examples <P :04> the period of time pre-eighteen-fifty, is thought of not only for birds but for all, uh, essentially uh, wildlife species, as a period of abundance. and of course this includes, the time, um, that North America was, occupied by Native Americans on up to basically, when uh European, settlement began to occur, and, and then on until the period of eighteen fifty. and, during this time period when the European settlers, uh first came and the early explorers they found of course this unbelievable abundance, and, no one_ this was a, a real shock because, the populations had been, very overhunted, throughout Europe, and for these people to arrive and find this abundant game, that could be used for food, um, was part of the, the mystique and the wealth, um of our country. well, in the period of time between about eighteen fifty, and the nineteen hundreds, um, this was a time period where this abundance, really began to decline. there were lots of examples prior to that time of local losses in abundance, but a- the year eighteen fifty to about nineteen hundred, really marks a time period, of significant declines, and the, the species that you identify, with during that time period the number one species people typically would identify would be the bison and, the fact that bison, almost disappeared. and as far as a bird species the primary bird species that, is identified at that time period, is the Passenger Pigeon, and i'm gonna say more about this later on i just wanna, kinda do an overview so when i, do the slides you can kind of, relate to it in your mind. uh, in response to this overharvesting, which occurred uh for, many species it was not simply, Passenger Pigeon and the bison, uh people began to recognize, that, some type of legislation was needed to curb the, uh overharvesting. and there were several things that happened, and in the time period of nineteen hundred to nineteen thirty, is thought of as a time period where several very key pieces of legislation were passed, at the federal level, and two of these i have up on the board, one's called the Lacey Act and the other is called the Migratory Bird Treaty Act, Lacey, L-A-C-E-Y. and basically, the rea- one of the reasons that, um the overhunting and overharvesting had such a big impact on, wildlife species, was because of something called market hunting. and that was um, that means that if, a relatively few number of individuals, uh became organized and had a good communications network, and would harvest huge numbers of a particular species and the case of, the the Passenger Pigeon is, is a very good one, and, these would be killed and then, shipped in some, uh relatively rapid and safe way, often salted, um off to large markets. at this time it was prior to, you know having, poultry farms and having, um, big meat markets and so on and so peop- these were in, in high demand as a source of fresh meat. um, and the Lacey Act was passed and it made it illegal to, ship between state lines or across state lines. now this may seem like a, fairly small and minor piece of legislation, but this was aimed at the market hunters who, uh could be harvesting, um, Passenger Pigeons in Wisconsin for example, and wanting to take them to big markets in Chicago. so this was considered a really, um very vital piece of legislation. it was in the ni- about nineteen twenty, that, a real landmark piece of legislation was passed and it's, uh referred to as the Migratory Bird, Treaty Act. and it has had, um several modifications, and the basic act uh makes it illegal to, possess, kill, uh disturb, any migratory bird. now, this actually has been extended to, include, nonmigratory species so it basically comes down to protecting, native species, at first in the United States, but we now have agreements, um with Canada for example and Mexico so it's a very, extensive agreement, um regarding, protection of migratory species, and native species. and this came into play because of concern about overharvests, particularly the waterfowl. many of the ducks breed in Canada, and, may winter, in the gulf or down, uh considerably, further south, so they were passing, through, different, bureaucratic zones, and in some areas they were protected and some they were not, and there was tremendous concern about, the harvest, heavy harvest occurring in Canada before waterfowl even got to the U-S. so this is what spurred on this, um agreement to begin with, and then it's been extended, uh essentially to all species. any exotic species, is not protected, the House Sparrow is not protected, the Mute Swan is not protected, the uh European Starling is not protected, um, and it is possible to get, depredation permits for some of the, for some species that are protected, um for example, if you have woodpeckers damaging your home you can get permission to, um have them removed or if you have, redwing blackbirds damaging your rice crop, you can get permission, um, to have those removed. if you're an airport, Pellston airport gets depredation permits so that they can kill gulls, for example, that sit on the runway, um so there are, some examples of how, to avoid this, um, this particular piece of legislation, um under certain circumstances. but this piece of legislation is very far-reaching, it's not just killing, it's, it is any, uh possession of so it's illegal to hold, any wild bird in captivity. a pet store was_ we think was probably, went out of business, in Cheboygan they had that goldfinch in a cage there, and uh some of the plover people were in there getting mealworms for the plovers and saw the goldfinch and, reported it to the local, conservation officer and, the pet store's not there anymore, <SS LAUGH> so we don't, we don't know exactly what happened but we speculate that, that could be related. um, there are all kinds of reports of, native species showing up in pet stores in the Chicago area. one primary species is a cardinal, interestingly enough. i think things are tightly controlled now and i think that's, that's fairly rare. it's also as i said illegal to possess birds' eggs or nests without appropriate permits. and it is illegal to possess dead birds, so if you're driving along and you find a great horned owl that's dead and you think, oh i can do something nice with this for my bedroom, <SS LAUGH> um, if a conservation officer were to find out about it, um, you would be violating a federal law. typically they, are only going to get involved and pay attention to, high profile species like eagles for example, um, but there are lots of cases of, of of people being turned in for, much lesser, um, crimes so to speak. technically it's illegal to possess feathers. again, the primary feathers of course, that are, are uh being focused on, are eagle feathers, historically there's some others like uh egret plumes and so on, um, so if you walk around with a gull feather in your, hat, you, probably are not, um going to get arrested but, it is uh against federal law. so i point this out because, this piece of legislation was passed, and i think it's had a very, major, effect, on, uh bird conservation. prior to that time, birds were harvested very, casually, people um, there there has always been kind of a negative reaction towards birds of prey, and people who felt like they were damaging their farms and maybe killing chickens whatever people just randomly would shoot birds of prey. um, a wide variety of birds have been harvested for food, even those that we don't think of as native species, and actually in other parts of the world, um people in some areas they, they feed very heavily or eat, a lot of small, songbirds. i believe that France has just passed some legislation that now makes it, legal to, shoot and eat songbirds again, they didn't_ for a while, it was um illegal. i think that that'll end up being, changed uh just because of of public pre- pressure but, um, we tend to think of a just a, few certain species as being consumed but, historically there's been a wide range, um of birds that've been eaten. um, i think there, there're just a lot of, uh factors, that have sprung from, or effects that have sprung from the Migratory Bird Treaty Act, that have had a very positive benefit, on on uh, bird protection, and i think there are a lot of things that we just, we can't even measure, um but it is a very important piece of legislation. um, the next, period of, general stage of conservation in the U-S is, a time period of, management and ecology from about nineteen thirty to nineteen seventy, and it was this time, during this time period, that um, wildlife management programs were being developed around the country and the first one, uh was founded by Aldo Leopold many of you recognize his name at the University of Wisconsin. he wrote a text, on uh wildlife management. and, the focus at this time, was, really on_ primarily on species that could be harvested for human consumption, and how to manage these numbers so that they could be harvested, at a, high level and still, uh remain as a stable population. and so what this meant was, wherever, management was going on, regionally, there would be a handful of species, that would, uh be getting the attention, would be getting funding from, typically the state Department of Natural Resources and federal funding, so here in the state of Michigan, it would've been species like Ruffed Grouse, woodcock, the waterfowl, for example, all of these, uh, deemed as important economic species species, um that people were interested in, in harvesting. at the same time, uh, hand in hand with, good management and knowing how to, sustain these populations over a long time period was an understanding of, of their biology and ecology so a lot of studies, uh in wildlife ecology were going on, um at the same time. well it, it was, uh, these time periods are, are kind of general, but it was around the nineteen seventies, that people became, very concerned about environmental, quality issues, and, the first Earth Day was, um established. and at this time, people began to think, a lot wider than just, at the species level or, just focusing on, a spe- species as having value for humans, and, there was a major shift in, people stopping and saying, you know here we have all this time and energy that's going into managing, a handful of species, and we know there are other species, that um, need attention as well, one group being, endangered species, one, the very, the precursor to the Endangered Species Act, was a, Bald Eagle Act, which recognized the fact that bald eagles had declined in number, and, this Act was passed, um, authorizing full protection and funding to, uh attempt to recover, the eagle population in North America, and this was later, converted into a broader perspective Endangered Species Act, um, so, the management, efforts continued, basically in a single species or population level, still focusing on, heavily on game species but, beginning to include, a broader group endangered species and some kind of special, intraspecies, uh one example i'll say something later about is the bluebird, uh bluebird numbers have declined and people, uh got together Boy Scout troops garden clubs and so on began putting up bluebird houses, so here was an example of, a species being protected not because it was, exceedingly rare and not because it could be harvested but because people like bluebirds, and they were concerned, about their declining numbers... the environmental awareness, time period, um continues up until da- to, to today, but i- superimposed on that, um came, a recognition starting in about the late ei- nineteen eighties, and really, kind of peaking in, about nineteen ninety, um it began with people's concern about the loss of, biodiversity in the rain forests, and people began to, say, a- see this was happening on a global scale, and see that rain forests were just one of many ecosystems, that were experiences_ experiencing, a loss of biodiversity. so the, all of a sudden, um a shift began to occur, and this is when uh graduate programs began to, spring up in the universities that are referred to as conservation biology programs, and these programs are similar, to wildlife management but instead of, really targeting species and selected species, conservation biology programs, focus on, basically protection and management of, all, living things or all biodiversity. and of course this meant, all birds then, fell, within this, the uh, realm of, of biodiversity. and, at this time, there were, some other events that, that were occurring that were important and and one was the focus on, the fact that, here in North America, people were recording, what they perceived as being important declines in forest birds, so all of this led people, to start, realizing that, so much time and energy had focused on such a few number of species, maybe we should be thinking about, population trends in common species or, certainly not in rare species but representative species, um of a particular region. um... in, this time period of, environmental awareness, and the more recent one of, of global biodiversity protection, there are a couple of other pieces, important pieces of legislation one is called CITES, that's the, acronym, and, that stands for Convention in International Trade in Endangered Species that's the Convention, for International Trade in Endangered Species. and this is not a piece of legislation, it is a, treaty, it's an agreement, among, many nations of the world, to respect, a a list basically, of, endangered and threatened species, that has been prepared, it's a global list, prepared by a conservation group, uh the International Union for Conservation of Nature you don't have to remember that, i would like you to know CITES. many nations have signed, this agreement and what it means is is that they will not, um import or export, species on the list. and it's um, some, some countries are very uh, rigid in enforcing this and, and in, in checking for it the United States for example, however, you know we have millions of people that are, entering and exiting, our country, every week, and there's no way that, um, even good enforcement is going on. but there are people, you know, the, the enforcement is in place and they have basically a sampling effort, um, there are some countries that, you know have signed and they ignore the agreement and, periodically we the United States places trade sanctions on them when something, is exposed, uh to try and get them to, link in better with the a- agreement. this is important for birds, the number one group of birds that, it probably affects the most, does anyone know what, that might be? pet trade birds? [SS: parrots? ] parrots. uh um, most of the parrots of the world are, have a threatened or endangered status and it is primarily from the pet trade, and um, CITES is, one of the strongest um, as as i said not a piece of legislation but uh strongest um agreement that helps to, to curb um, trade in, in parrots. another important piece of legislation, is called the Fish and Wildlife, um, Management Act, and, this was passed in the nineteen eighties and this is a very strange, um piece of legislation. passed at the federal level, and what it said was, it said, for, any state, that has a non-game program established, we will provide money, so, and this piece of legislation was passed, so the states, um a good chunk of them, about sixty percent, said hey, this is, a potential for, tremendous extra revenue for our wildlife programs, so we're gonna gear up and we're gonna get a non-game program. and the non-game was not just for birds it was mammals typically fish, um, amphibians and reptiles and in many cases plants as well, so all these states jumped togeth- you know jumped up and got these programs going, Michigan did, Minnesota did, as an example, basically all except some of the poorer states got these, programs going, and then, Congress never came through with the money. well... they had to do things to get these programs going, they had to kind of find money in between, and many of them did it through things like, um, income tax checkoffs, we have one in, in uh Minnesota and I believe there's one in Michigan as well where you choose to, donate ten dollars or whatever, um on your income tax there are other_ there's states that, that s- sell special license plates and the money goes into it some through lottery all kinds of things. um, but these programs got established and they were very very significant because they got individual states, to start thinking about, species other than, the ones that they had traditionally supported, for so many years through hunting and fishing licenses and just general appropriations from the legislature. yeah, David 
S3: what is a non-game program?
S1: um, a non-game program, means, in i- in a typical, Department of Natural Resources, um, they would have, like a division of fishes, and their money and their, energy would be going in to making sure there are enough perch to keep the population of, Michigan the fishing population happy, enough walleye enough, trout in in the streams enough, you know so all game, related. they, had no concern about things like sturgeon, that were declining, no money would go there, uh, even though sturgeon is a game fish they're just not common enough, to worry about and they never would be, so, they would kind of fall by the wayside a lot of the, um there's some, uh tremendously interesting minnows and other non-game non-hunted, essentially species that, that uh would not get any attention. in, in the, uh wildlife section, you would have somebody who deals with upland game, the grouse, the woodcock, the snipe, then you'd have a specialist who dealt with the waterfowl. um, for example, and then you would have somebody, who was the forest ungulates, the moose and the deer, and_ or large game, (include) bear, and somebody, who also or several people who were dealing with, the h- the trap, trapping, small, mammal species, those are all the game, hunted for game or, harvested for, um, a product for humans. non-game is anything that's not hunted. so, um, most of the bird species for example. (what's that?) so, mo- until the ei- n- nineteen eighties, states did not even, think about it they put no money towards, um, chickadees or, owls or, you know whatever. it was just believed that, the energy that went into protecting the game species, would spill off and protect, the non-game. so if you set aside a wildlife refuge for waterfowl, then, think of all the good it would do for Marsh Wrens and bitterns and so on. and, um, the same for forested areas, so the nineteen eighties was a real key point of, getting, um, the public and and getting legislators to you know change, the way money was appropriated. okay so now we're, at a time, where people are, um, are recognizing that we don't have the time, we don't have the money, to focus species by species or population by population so, the energy has to be, spread, more widely. and, uh, many bird conservation efforts, are focused at the community or ecosystem level. that's what i've, been trying to do with Piping Plover work, is to think about the other species of plants that are involved think of the entire dune complex, use the plover as, a, species with federal status that can help, in, in protection um, but, don't do it at the expense of other species, which is what has happened, in the past. now, here we are, now, ki- dangling at this, or headed in this direction of, of, concern for global or regional biodiversity protection, and the question, is you know what what's the next step in the future well, i don't know, exactly where it is, but i see one issue, that's coming up in terms of, conservation and management, that people are having tremendous problems dealing with, and that is we are now, we've been very successful with a lot of species, and, human activities are changing, um, ecosystems, and we're having global, pattern changes, and we now have overabundant wildlife, and some of these are tolerable, at, certain levels, some are, not tolerable, in a lot of different spots, and some are causing, um, very significant ecosystem problems, um in, big regions of the of, North America, i'm gonna give you the details on this in just a few minutes. um, so i see that as an area that is, going to be very challenging because, it involves ethics, it involves, you know, where do we step in and say, these numbers are too much for us to bear as humans, um, and, wh- how should we make these decisions, whether to, try and control populations and how should this be done, should it be done. should we do this for every species, that we see as a nuisance, or are we naturally gonna see these fluctuations anyway, and do we need to step back and just let them occur, knowing that, there will be some, times when, people feel uncomfortable with, the density of a particular species. and, this is, you know something that's occurring with plants, insects, you know, mammals, it also has occurred, with birds. okay i think that i've covered, everything i wanted to, about legislation and these general stages so what i wanna do now is go through some slides, and talk about, the species and how they fit into these different, um conservation stages but, i'm gonna have to answer some questions, Sally (xx)
S4: just when did the sp- Endangered Species Act get, put into effect?
S1: um the, nineteen sixty-six is the year that, is typically given, um i can't tell you, um i don't know when the Bald Eagle Act was, um was initially passed and, what happens is that the Endangered Species Act is peri- periodically up for re-authorization, and, a few years ago it was, very um, close, there was a lot of heavy pressure and and people were really looking at the Endangered Species Act and then that was the time when the federal government was shut down, um, for whatever it ended up being a week or so, and that just kind of brought, that re-authorization process to an end. the w- concerns about the Endangered Species Act it's considered, the most powerful piece of environmental, legislation that, has ever been passed, um, there are, a lot of concerns by biologists and by non-biologists. there are concerns that it, um infringes on, um, citizen rights, when um uh endangered species occur on private land, uh that's a very big issue that is, uh leading a lot of, legislators to, push, to have, modifications or changes made there. from, a biologist's perspective, um there are many cases where the Endangered Species Act has been used, uh to, promote the, survival of a single species at the cost of other species within the ecosystem, um and people feel uncomfortable with that, one of the, things that people may, feel most uncomfortable about, those who work with endangered species is the allocation of money. there are about ten species that, end up getting, you know about fifty million dollars a year, a- from Congress and, these species are, not logically, ones that you would feel should be receiving the money some of them are but, um, some are marginal in terms of, um, uh, their... they are, rare anyway in North America, there's been some efforts that have gone into ocelots and some of the species that are, found in Central America and occur just over, the border in southwestern U-S and received a lot of money, the California Condor has received, tremendous amounts of money, um, and you know maybe for, justifiable reasons a huge amount of money went into the bald eagle, Kirtland's Warbler here in, in the state of Michigan, has received millions of dollars, and then there are other species like the Piping Plover that we typically get about ten thousand dollars a year, which, barely pays for anything, so people feel there should be more of a reallocation of funds, um, and, that these you know really, big money species uh, need to be evaluated re-evaluated as to whether, that's justifiable. and a lot of the decisions seem to be, very political as to which critter, gets the money. think of the money that's gone into the spotted owl issue. you know maybe some of these, um, you know i could argue on either side, uh but that's been a big issue with the Endangered Species Act. okay. have you guys eaten your fireballs? alright, you better cuz i'm gonna, turn (the slide on...) and just, burst in if you have questions. let me see, we'll have to figure something out no, there oops... <SS LAUGH> let me see what it's gonna be like here... <SS LAUGH> is this okay?
SU-M: might wanna back it up a little, get it a little bigger.
<P :09> 
S1: okay now, what i want you to keep in mind is i'm gonna go through i talked about those different stages, and i'm gonna go through and give some examples, and, the first one's the period of, uh, of abundance and, and fouled with, overharvest, and this might, be a surprise to you, but one of the groups that was very heavily harvested were the shore birds. they would come, um through areas during migration in, the hundreds of thousands, and millions of birds they'd congregate along shorelines, and they were shot for food, and in fact, they're very um good eating, um and many species and the Piping Plover is one that, there are records of them being harvested, i don't know what kind of impact, um there may have been on, on plovers.
S5: have you ever eaten a plover?
S1: oh no 
<SS LAUGH> 
S4: have you ever eaten a shorebird at all?
S1: uh, no i've never eaten a shorebird i've eaten um, i've uh tasted uh Herring Gulls, and Caspian Terns, birds that, um [SU-F: Caspian Terns? ] <SS LAUGH> that had died from injuries, and they were not particularly good, very stringy, and tough. um, another group that was very heavily harvested were of course the waterfowl and that's, you know that's not a surprise. um, and, some numbers were really really low, and some populations were almost eliminated as breeding populations, in some of the states, and it was, the waterfowl declines, that really, um were big stimulus for the passing of the Migratory Bird Treaty Act, and we s- today, have, just a tiny fraction of what we once had, in the way of waterfowl species. now, excuse me not species but waterfowl population numbers. now one of the things that has happened of course is that we no longer have, the problem of overharvest in North America, that has been replaced by, the problem of habitat loss, so historically overharvesting was the number one problem and today, it's habitat loss and its various, s- um, various categories from degradation and change possibly through contaminants, to uh fragmentation of habitat to just direct, harvesting of forests or conversion of native prairie to ag lands. <NEW SLIDE> now this is uh one that i'm gonna tell you a story about this is, what species?
SS: Ring-billed gull 
S1: Ring-billed gull and, uh this has a neat story that you don't, hear about elsewhere, um, it's really not written up anywhere but it is, in old literature so you can find it, um, the Ring-billed gull, was present, um during, you know the settlement time, presettlement, and in what numbers we really don't know but it, it was present in the great lakes. um, by, the, early nineteen hundreds it had disappeared as a breeding species in the great lakes, which is hard to imagine. in the state of Michigan right now, um based on the survey we did this summer, there are about a hundred thousand pairs, nesting, um in the state of Michigan. so what would happen to cause the ringbills to disappear as a breeding species in the great lakes? they nest in, good-sized colonies, and they have an egg that's, um, ranked as being a high, uh, in terms of its uh taste, palatability, there is actually a scale of, of egg palatability that somebody worked out quite some time ago, and, um, when harvesting of eggs for food was, was a, legal thing to do. so, market hunters, um, knew about these egg supplies and they would start, at the south end of Lake Michigan at the south end of Lake Huron so Detroit region Chicago region, they would move north the colonies really don't start, until about Saginaw, for the for Lake Huron and then they go all the way up to, northern Lake Huron where we, had breakfast at Search Bay the area where we did the Black Tern census, and then they s- the Ring-bi- Ring-billed colonies start, about um, a line at about Traverse City, the islands off the_ offshore the Manitous and so on, and so these boats would stop, at all the ringbill colonies on their way north, and they would smash, all of the eggs. they'd go north as far as they could, they'd turn back, and then they'd stop at all the islands, and wherever they found, eggs, those they would collect because they knew they were fresh. they were, uh um, early in incubation so they were not gonna have large embryos, and, then they would ta- pack these in the barrels of salt, and take them down to Chicago and Detroit, to be sold in the markets. now at the same time, it was a tremendous fashion for women to ha- wear feathers, um, in hats and on their clothing, here and also in Europe. and birds with white feathers were particularly sought after because these feathers can be dyed. so adults were also harvested. so this type of market hunting in very intense pressure went on, with the ringbill gulls and because they nest in large colonies they were, um much more vulnerable than the Herring Gulls that tend to have less dense colonies. so, the ringbill was knocked back, and it was through, protection efforts, um that made it illegal to sell these feathers and illeg- illegal to sell the eggs in these large markets, that brought the ringbill gull back, and by nineteen twenty-four the first, um gulls were, ringbills were reported nesting in um, the northern Great Lakes it was either Huron or, i think it was in northern Lake Huron, and then they've slowly increased, to the point where in many areas they're now, perceived as a problem because they've done so well, um in association, with humans. but this was a species that was harvested, to extinction within a region, um, okay here's another species that was heavily harvested, this is? 
SS: Sandhill Crane 
S1: Sandhill Crane [SU-F: Sandhill Crane ] <SS LAUGH> and this is, is still, is still a hunted species, um, in many areas, uh the numbers were brought, very very low, they are, um hunted in some of the Western states now but this is another one that was, was overharvested. now, this is what? 
SS: Mourning Dove 
S1: yeah Mourning Dove, you didn't know they were so, gaudy, did you, blue eye-ring and all those details. well, the Morning dove is not the one i'm, gonna talk about, it's actually the Passenger Pigeon, that i think is the most interesting of the overharvested species, and, the the Passenger Pigeon is, um believed to have been, the most abundant land bird, ever, on the face of the earth, uh uh historically and up to modern times, existed in the billions, and they were a bird of the eastern deciduous forests. they were a massed crop feeder, feeding on beechnuts, it was a prime food source for them, and also on acorns, but primarily beech, and, they would, um they were also colonial nesters and roosters, and wherever they occurred, they occurred in the hundreds of thousands, and there were historical, nest sites and roost sites, that you know people, reported, you couldn't help miss it, i mean if you've got, um s- several hundred thousand birds on your property you, you know that. and, um they of course, doves are hunted, in many states and and, and the Passenger Pigeon uh as a an adult bird the meat was, highly sought after, they weren't, no one was interested in the eggs but the young were also eaten the squabs, and it was the same thing as with the gulls there were, a handful of people, you know we're talking about dozens and dozens of people throughout, the Eastern deciduous forest but in comparison to the, the whole, um human population in in Eastern North America was small, um who became organized to hunt, the Passenger Pigeon, and bring these in to the large market so l- large markets throughout the Eastern U-S, and there were a number of things that went on that helped this, um, this whole process. one was the railroad, came in. and there were railroad lines throughout Eastern U-S so they could quickly, ship, put, birds, onto uh the train and send 'em into markets, immediately. another was the invention of the telegraph, they could communicate, somebody could send a message and say, i've just found a colony of, you know, here in uh, southern Wisconsin at such and such a place, and they'd get twenty men on the train and, whip over there and, and uh harvest them. um, so, the the communication network and the transportation netw- network, was really critical, um in terms of the demise, so to speak of the Passenger Pigeon. well another thing about Passenger Pigeons that played an important role is that they're, highly social and, uh it's thought that they, n- n- will not nest solitarily and and do not, really could not be successful unless there were large numbers of them, and it's not sure exactly, what those reasons are but, the market hunting of course could not, individually kill, billions of birds, but they went in year after year, for ten or more years and constantly disturbed these colonies, so that birds were deserting, the young were dying, um birds were being killed, birds were not breeding so they, the Passenger Pigeon, did not breed for ten to fifteen years, and, literally, in that short time period, um, became extinct. the last bird died in captivity, uh in the Cincinnati zoo, in the um early nineteen hundreds. so this is a, this example has been such a powerful one, how could you ever imagine, that something that existed in the billions, a vertebrate no less, could be driven to extinction, um, in such a short time period. well, it did happen and it's_ you know it really is a symbol of, of um, not the conservation movement but the, overharvest and the impact potential impact that humans can have, um on a species or on populations, so it's a a very very powerful story and figured, in an important way in um, in subsequent conservation efforts. okay the next, group so that's really the period of, uh abundance and overharvest and the next group, the next issue i wanna talk about is the era of, wildlife management, and the studies on ecology. and here's a species of Canada Goose that you're well familiar with, you've heard me say a few things about it, this was an overharvested species. in the state of Minnesota, they were extirpated they were eliminated as a breeding species, in, the nineteen twenties, in the state. that's a long time ago. and, the, uh, w- people in charge of waterfowl the Department of Natural Resources folks, said, this is a tremendous resource, people want this they want to be able to harvest Canada Geese, we will bring them back. so they did this through reintroduction, by bringing in birds from other states where the populations were more robust. well, what's happened in Minnesota, is that we now have a huge population of Canada Geese, and they are valued as a hunted speci- species so there is a hunting season, but they also, are viewed as a non-game species, people, have, many, um, urban, areas have brought Canada Geese into their, parks, and at first this was wonderful, because there'd be a couple families and everybody'd like to go, and see their babies in the spring and, and then all of a sudden the numbers began to increase, and the birds, get up on the golf greens and eat the grass, which is not appreciated, and defecate, which is not appreciated and they defecate in tremendous amounts, um, on sidewalks where runners are jogging around the lakes in the twin cities there's always a crisis about, too many geese, but at the same time, um, when they tried to, do something about it, there were people who wanted them there, even in large numbers. so it's led to a lot of, um, court cases and, interactions between animal rights groups, between management people, between, the airport, is concerned about, um, human safety, because geese are, have caused fatal accidents, and um, we're left, with a species that is, uh, an overabundant species in many areas in Minnesota they, shipped extra birds, to every place they could. finally, all those places said we don't, we can't take any more Canada Geese, and one of the things that they did, try next that were successful for a while, was doing a planned harvest and all, the geese went to (local food shelves.) and that was very popular but, there were also legal concerns and now, pressure um, from some of the animal rights groups has stopped that, and they found, somewhere, i think it's Oklahoma that they've been sending, extra geese to. so um, this is an issue we have someone in my department that back in Minnesota, who has contracts with all the local communities, or many of the local communities, um you know like five to twenty thousand dollar contracts for goose management, um every year so, here's a, single-species effort to manage, um a species for harvest that, has been too successful in that setting. Ruffed Grouse is another species that's been, managed i've mentioned this one before because, the recipe for good Ru- Ruffed Grouse production, is very opposed to, what is needed to_ for good conser- conservation of forest birds. grouse need a mix of, forest ages so it's recommended that, the forest be, uh viewed as a um, a twenty-four year, um, harvest cycle, you break it into four, sections and you rotate through, so every twenty-fourth year, the oldest um uh (plot,) aspen are allowed to grow until they're twenty-four years, and then they're harvested but you always have, um, you know every, uh six years sixth year you have some harvest that's going on so this means, you have a fragmented forest you have a very young forest and, species of birds, that do not, do well in this, in the fragmentation are, really being um, managed, to their death so to speak. so this was a, a case of single-species management, and it's been popular this is the number one, game species, uh upland game species bird species in, um Minnesota that uh more hunters uh had permits for this than than (others.) now, here's a species, uh like the Canada Geese, was extirpated, an- from a lot of regions in eastern North America the Wild Turkey, and in some cases in Minnesota it's doubtful that they ever were there, but they were close by, and, so departments of, uh wildlife had introduced turkeys. that's what, was the situation here in Michigan, turkeys were native to Michigan, um and, now uh it must have been about twenty years ago they undertook a big, reintroduction program, and that's why you're seeing them around the station area these are, birds that um probably came from Missouri, that seems to have been, one of the most successful stocks for the more northern states, so they were wild birds, found native in North America but these are not, genetically Michigan birds. well this reintroduction, goes to it i- its extreme with a number of species and the Ring-necked, Pheasant is a perfect example, this is a species that's highly desirable, hundreds of thousands of dollars go into this species, in, the w- Midwestern states, up to the millions of dollars in some, cases, to manage for the Ring-necked Pheasant this bird is found in Asia it's not a native species, and, um it does well, um in many agricultural, regions as long as there's, good cover and not, uh s- harsh winters. this was okay in the nineteen thirties to the nineteen seventies, but a lot of people questioned, the value of, and the ethics of bringing in non-native species. for a long time people thought that pheasants, had no negative impact on the land, they now know that pheasants will lay their eggs in, Prairie Chicken nests for example, and pheasant eggs hatch sooner. when they hatch, and the chicks leave the nest, the Prairie Chicken parents desert their eggs and go with the pheasant babies. so that is a negative, and it may have affected Prairie Chicken populations. the states will, probably you know within my lifetime will never touch the pheasant. it's too, it means too much financially. it's a highly desired, uh harvested species. and the negative impacts are too minor. okay, another group of, of managed species are the endangered species the s- kind of special interest ones, and the Peregrine Falcon was one, like the Bald Eagle that was affected by, um problems with, um D-D-T so that it had, eggshell thinning. and tremendous money and energy has gone into, essentially re-establishing Peregrine Falcons, uh in, um the U-S they were essentially gone, and it's been through a very intensive program, of captive rearing, and releasing birds, um into locations where they were historically, um around North America, that has re-established them they're not, uh large numbers, but they, are no longer doing, releases they are now, the the nat- the population, the current population is not being supplemented by released birds, and, um, their, um, they they've done extremely well in urban areas so that's been very popular they use, skyscrapers like cliffs and they feed on pigeons and, other, uh House Sparrows and so on, and they do very well. um, this, Bald Eagle puppet, um is being used to hand rear a young eaglet, um a lot of energy of course went into Bald Eagles in some areas, they did reintroductions, uh of young birds, in many areas it only took good protection like in the state of Michigan, the, uh national, uh ban on D-D-T along with good protection, um around the nest sites and so on has led to, a recovery that will probably take the Bald Eagle off the endangered species list, uh in a relatively short period of time. um this is a female Kirtland's Warbler, and this is another species that, received a tremendous amount of, and still continues to get a tremendous amount of financial, support um, and they require a very specific habitat, of jack pines of a certain age, and they nest only in jack pines, and it was found that they had very heavy, um parasitism by Brown-headed Cowbirds, and, so a, major program to remove the cowbirds, was instituted. now this is objectionable to some people, from an ethics perspective, because you are placing a higher value on the life of a, Kirtland's Warbler, than on a Brown-headed Cowbird, and, of course that's debatable in lots of different ways, but the program still, uh it continues on, and the Kirtland's after many years, are finally, they went from about two hundred, uh pairs up to over eight hundred, Sharon?
S5: um why, was there so much emphasis about this bird just be- because it used to be here and was declining? 
S1: well the the the Kirtland's Warbler, um i used to take classes there on a trip but, it um it's something that you can do on your own they're they f- are found in the, Gaylord-Grayling area, and, they are found only, they breed only in, central lower peninsula Michigan. nowhere else in the world. [S5: oh. ] and that's what makes them, a really special species they're endemic, to that region of Michigan, found nowhere else they winter in the Bahamas, and, unlike say the Piping Plover where their population's, Atlantic coast, northern great plains, here in the Great Lakes, even though there are fewer plovers, this bird is a high priority because of its uniqueness, um and and that's why it received, all the attention, also, um because it was on, forest service land and the forest_ and this link with jack pines, forest service could, get involved with money, Fish and Wildlife Service had money, so together, they could make a united force to, towards the management of this species that, that you don't see with some of the other species just because the money's not there. Betsy? 
S6: um what's its call?
S1: it says cheer cheer cheer Larry
S6: cheer cheer cheerlerie?
S1: cher- cheer cheer cheer Larry. [S6: oh ] and uh it's a very, very distinctive, i- if you um, they have tours you have to go on tour, uh into the breeding area, in the spring i think they start in uh late April maybe, the best time is anytime in May and you're, essentially guaranteed, of hearing and or seeing, um, the kirtland's they're not at all shy, they'll just pop right out and start singing and, they're they're easy to see. yeah David.
S3: it's, kind of off the subject, what about the (xx) the the um blue book said that they might be extinct, it's kind of old though i wonder if there's
S1: i you know i really can't, i can't tell you i mean that's all i know that there's, you know there's this debate about whether or not they're still, um, they're a lo- there're other species that_ where people just don't know the status, so sorry i can't answer that... i mentioned before that the bluebird was, uh... not endangered in terms of small n- numbers, and certainly not a harvestable, species but it was s- something, a species that people really liked, esthet- esthetically, and they may have declined, because of pesticide use, they may have declined because people no longer were using wooden fence posts, and they didn't have old o- orchard or- apple orchards with the how- howa- (hollow) that woodpeckers would make in trees, and a, very big effort across the country, uh not that it was a national effort but, lots of people pitched in, really has seen a tremendous return of bluebirds they're now, you know, we haven't_ it's not that we've seen them a lot, but when we're in open country, if there're bluebird houses around, you find bluebirds. so they have really, um, thrived so to speak on, relatively minor attention, uh from people. the Purple Martin is another one. um, their numbers, though, seem to have declined and really not recovered, but there's been a lot of efforts, to manage Purple Martins, we for a long time at the station had a big, Purple Martin colony, but they have declined here because of changes in habitat, they like an open, a very open area near water, and down by the beach and the cabins here, um, you know forty fifty years ago, this was, totally open, and now the trees have grown up and, it's just not a, a habitat that appeals to them, but this is a species that, um, people like to have around so it was really for esthetic reasons that people found ways to manage them. well the next, stage, in um, in conservation, that progressed after this all this, emphasis on single-species, endangered-species management and and management for harvest, is the concern about, um ecosystem or, regional management or, um, uh habitat management on a on a much larger scale wi- with multiple species, and this Scarlet Tanager is a symbol, of large blocks of forest, and people who are monitoring songbirds began to report declines in a number of species around the country, and, they were declines, primarily of species that were, required large chunks of forest, and, people who were doing the studies and monitoring, were able to point out how, forests were being increasingly fragmented and just disappearing in areas. and then there was another camp of people who said well, you know it's really not that, it's not loss of breeding habitat, look at the changes that have occurred, in the winter. in, primarily in, Central America, in some cases in South America, and in others just in, in southern coastal regions, um of the United States, so, this, problem of, songbird decline you've_ i mean i can't imagine you haven't, seen something on T-V you haven't talked about it in classes, or you haven't read about it but it's you know where, the titles are Another Silent Spring or Where Have All the Songbirds Gone or, uh the Mystery of the Missing Migrants they're all these kind of catchy titles, and, this really spurred on, groups, uh agencies like the Forest Service and Fish and Wildlife Service, a lot of the private, nongovernment organizations such as the Nature Conservancy, World Wildlife Fund, poured, millions of dollars into figuring out what was going on, with forest songbirds, why, are they declining, are they really in_ declining, is it happening in the tropics, is it happening in the, in the breeding, um areas, and, what is, making the decline happen. so some of the species that were focused on were Scarlet Tanagers, the Ovenbird was_ is one that is, known to, well it appears to prefer large, blocks of undisturbed forest, but it's also found in marginal lands as well. the Rose-breasted Grosbeak, mature deciduous forest, and the woodpeckers, all depend on, uh older forests or most of them depend on, older forests for food and for nesting. these are not songbirds but they've been, included in the studies. so, um, there're now, um there's been enough time that, if you look, the result of all the money that went into the forest songbird work is that if you pick up any journal, that publishes on birds, you will find a huge chunk of the papers are on forest songbird studies, so much money went into it, people, dropped their, research efforts that they'd been pursuing for years just to go for the money, and we now know a lot about, forest songbird issues, but a lot of things are still not resolved, there are no nationwide trends for declines in particular species there are regional declines, and some species may be declining one place and increasing another. we do know that, habitat fragmentation is an important issue birds, that nest near forest edges or any kind of habitat edge, where, um predators are gonna be using these areas have lowered reproductive success. birds in intact, forests in the center have higher reproductive success. they also are not, those in the center are not exposed to cowbird, um parasitism, as_ in as great a frequency, um so we know that those things are influencing, uh bird populations. um, it's not real clear about what's happening in the wintering grounds there's some areas where there's tremendous loss, of habitat, in other areas where the habitat has been lost there are some species that, seem to be benefitting. so these programs are all, um, many of them are still continuing, and as with any piece of research you open one door and you open fifty more. so, uh the, forest songbird work i think will continue, uh for quite some time we're still, you know getting a huge amount of information. um the original money is not there but a lot of these programs are set up and, this is a place where you could get, um jobs i- quite easily in, in the summer, based on your, experience with the class. i also mentioned the, of course i talked about my work with Piping Plovers, so the effort now, in many conservation, uh studies is to take a bigger approach. look at multiple species, think about the landscape, um think about, conservation issues, from a much, larger perspective, and including, human interests, because without, getting human interests into the picture, you can never, um resolve uh most conservation, issues. okay i'm just gonna finish, with those species that are now superabundant, overabundant, and just say a few things about what these problems are and where things may be headed. this doesn't sound like a real, exciting direction, we're thinking about future directions, and in fact, coming up with conservation plans, at an ecosystem level, and regional level, for birds for multispecies is extremely challenging and that's gonna occupy, people working on conservation issues for a long time. endangered species still need, to be held by the wing so to speak. we do all that very intensive management with Piping Plovers so it's not to say that, single-species management is out, game species will demand, a lot of attention and time, simply because of money, but these are kind of, you know new problems on the horizon. species like Red-winged Blackbird and starling have been around for a long time, of course this isn't exotic, and they do, billions of dollars worth of damage to crops. during the winter we don't really see that here, but they migrate down throughout south, south, eastern U-S, and there are a lot of, uh control programs to try and keep the numbers down. the Red-winged Blackbird um, i've heard it reported as being the most abundant land bird now that the Passenger Pigeon is gone, uh in North America and on top of it, a problem species. the Mute Swan we've talked about this before, it's appealing people like to have it around but it also, um is responsible for environmental degradation, um destruction of the, substrate and vegetation in wetlands and they'd be challenging loons on their nesting platforms, um, here is a species that, really isn't superabundant or overabundant, but it's increasing in numbers, it hasn't reached anything like the Canada Goose, it it may be a concern right now, it basically is doing its own thing and there may be some_ a few local control issues but, i just wanted to point this out, we've got a lot of these that are kind of, you know on the fringe, um that people wonder about, you know, whether they're gonna be, uh what their future will be. the Brown-headed Cowbird, has definitely increased, it was a bird of the plains, probably followed the bison. and because it followed bison capturing insects, it could not be tied down to a territory, and evolved, the, um, the behavior pattern of not building a nest, it's an obligate nest parasite, does not cannot build a nest, lays its eggs in other birds' nests, and then it moves on, and the other birds then, um, raise the cowbird young, and it's been very successful, when Michigan was cleared, prior to that cowbirds were not in Michigan probably, they moved way up into Michigan, with the clearing of the forest and followed in with the farmlands so the distribution of cowbirds has changed. next week on the twenty-ninth we're going to have one of the world's experts on cowbirds here, giving a talk at the, required lecture the Hann lecture, he's also um, probably gonna go out in the field with us and has offered just to meet and talk with you folks, and so i'm gonna work with him to come up with an idea of, kind of a general lecture about, cowbirds and, why cowbirds are interesting, so you know, you have that to look forward to. um, this is my, special species of interest as a, overabundant species you've heard me talk about this the Double-crested Cormorant, in the state of Michigan a big worry because, um, they are increasing, and where they're increasing um sports fishing is very very popular and is a tremendous source of revenue for people, and there's tremendous concern that cormorants are eating, the sports fish. perch in particular. the studies do not, show, that that have been done on (diets) do not show that the cormorants have, big impact, that's hard to discuss with people when they're fishing and they see, cormorants zinging around their boat, catching fi- fish faster than they are, um the cormorants have gone from about, seven hundred pairs, uh twenty years ago to over fifty thousand in the Great Lakes, and they're increasing, everywhere, and this is probably, in response to, banning of, D-D-T and also, a big thing is a change, a conversion of the cotton, crop in the southern U-S to, uh catfish farming, because now the birds have a great source of food in the winter, so mortality is lower, juvenile mortality is greatly lowered, the young they're breeding when they're one instead of four years old, and so on. what will the future be? there's a depredation order, anyone working within an aquaculture facility, can shoot cormorants if they see them catching or about to catch a fish, and, local, um communities are pushing for local cormorant control. i don't, you know i really don't know, where this is gonna go but, Fish and Wildlife Service is under, tremendous pressure, one phone rings, from a congressman who says, get rid, of those damn birds, and the next phone, call is from an animal rights group, saying you touch those birds and you'll be in court, so the poor person who has to answer that phone has, got jangled nerves. Betsy.
S6: are they an exotic species?
S1: nope, these are native to North America, um
S6: so are they protected under
S1: these are protected under the Migratory Bird Treaty Act and, um, so they have to, there is a special, what's called a depredation order, that is signed by the Secretary of the Interior, that allows the har- you know the, shooting of, birds that are damaging, human property. um, anyway, that's that's a story, to watch. this is a story though that i really want you to watch because, this is going to make big national news, on and on. it's already started but i haven't really seen any, big articles yet. this is a Snow Goose. the Snow Goo- Geese, nest up in the arctic, around Hudson's Bay James Bay, by the millions. and they're grazers like the other geese, they feed on vegetation. in the winter, they go down to the southern U-S and, they're in many places they're on wildlife refuges, but they go into farmers', um, in agricultural lands and they feed a lot on, new rice new wheat all kinds of, um, uh, typically what you'd think of as kind of short grass crops. they've been protected, there is a hunting season, on this species, and, the numbers have, s- began to increase slowly slowly, and now, the numbers are so great, that, this is probably, the only, uh vertebrate species, whose impact can be seen from satellite, because their impact on the vegetation, in the tundra, is unbelievable i've seen the satellite photos, and um, they have completely destroyed, the vegetation, um that they require, to to feed on, and it's you know it's basically down to the bare soil, so this means that, the whole tundra environment is changing so what do they do well they shift their nesting patterns, um in response to this, there is no predator that can even begin to make a dent their most, um, feared predator a- is the Arctic Fox, well, if you've got, millions of birds, even, hundreds of Arctic Foxes are not going to eve- even begin to make a dent, so, and then there's the concern of, with these birds where they're going in the winter. some areas there doesn't seem to be a big impact where they're spread out but others, um there is, so Fish and Wildlife Service is in, in huge debates, um with Ducks Unlimited and all the, other agencies and noncon- and nongovernment conservation groups, to try and make, um, a decision, that will lead to, um, a solution to the problem, and one thing that's very difficult, a logical solution would be, increase what's called the bag limit increase the number of birds, that can be taken by a hunter. well, they already have done that, and people, are not harvesting, at a higher level, you know people don't want twenty, Snow Geese, or whatever the level is. another possibility is that they will lengthen the season, of harvest and, probably the next step will be a spring harvest. whether or not, these will have the impact that, they want in terms of bringing the numbers down is, you know it's not known, because the, the numbers are so large, um that, it's it's just, difficult to make, uh predictions as to how popula- the entire population would respond, uh to different harvest levels, but this is very contentious, from groups who don't want the birds touched, to people who are concerned about, the, um, quality of the arctic environment is this affecting other species will this have global implications on, all kinds of things water quality and, and um just the, um watershed, patterns and so on in in, in the arctic, so it's a, a fascinating, um problem, i'm glad i don't have to deal with it, and it's something, that i predict this fall you're gonna start seeing, more in the newspaper, so you can remember that you heard about it here first. okay i think, that may be my last one, it is. and um, anybody have specific questions? or nonspecific questions...? yeah.
S7: how reliable are those, bird atlases (just in terms of) going out and (xx)
S1: well um, she wants to know how reliable the bird atlases are with groups of people going out. how reliable were you folks this morning? um, you know with any set, with any data set, the longer you do it, um, the more accurate your patterns are going to be. um, you can, you recognize that with a group of amateurs that you are, you are_ that there're gonna be errors, with the group that's doing the breeding birds survey, there there're gonna be errors, but the overall pattern and just the, um, the strength of the numbers in terms of the data, that's what really, um, counts and i think, that the, that the patterns, are quite accurate. i know, one um, for some species if_ they're not gonna be, because we just don't know enough they're too secretive. um, now there was one i looked at, and i was kind of surprised, can't remember what it was, um that the distribution was kind of as (thin) as it was, but if you look under say Least Bitterns there's not gonna be much information that's because people aren't out in the marshes, looking for Least Bitterns, um, and for the breeding birds survey, that's where people are driving a route, well you're not gonna have a good record, of Caspian Tern distribution, they're out on islands out in northern Lake Michigan, but that information is recorded, so, breeding birds survey, info that's then converted to a map, it is very, um, it's not at all accurate for some species. but for a lot of species i think it shows, you know very good accuracy. we just have, you know we just, we, people, just have to keep, and will continue to refine the (technology) of, yes
S4: (xx) 
S1: how did they get to the, um, well, through, through protection one is one thing and very carefully monitored hunting seasons, um because my guess is they were probably, overharvested, early in the century they would have been a very popular species to eat. um, and then, like the cormorant, the conversion of, um, possibly uh, you know cotton or other crops into like rice was not a big crop, historically, in the south but it now is, and they feed very heavily in these rice, paddy fields, and um, uh so that would be another, that is probably, a very important issue. and then the numbers you know slowly began to build up, and um, moved outside the, the framework that, any natural predation can, affect. so now it, it really is, uh has led to, uh you know it probably as we speak meeting is going on, it's a very contentious thing, and very very difficult, problem, um, to solve, for lots of, lots of reasons.
S4: but they don't, consider using it, is that like, economic (xx)
S1: well i- um, i- there've been, i i know there've been discussions, um of, opening up, um harvest for native populations, um so that they, you know essentially could harvest and sell, for example, um, i don't know what's gonna happen what i, the last time i talked to someone who's fairly close to this issue, he works for Ducks Unlimited, he said he thought, what was gonna happen is that they would have a spring hunt, which is almost unheard of, because that's the breeding season. the only other species that i can think of, that has a spring hunt er- is the turkey season. do you know any other (xx) but to have a a waterfowl hunt with Snow Geese, during the spring would be a, that would be a very major thing. and it you know it's it's probably something that, uh some people will block, others will endorse some will say this is not gonna work, uh so the whole kind of area of, managing overabundant wildlife is what i think a new, kind of professional direction, that uh is an opportunity. if people are interested in that kind of an issue where you're dealing with human social, issues and wildlife, uh protection wildlife biology people are not trained they do not know how to deal with these kinds of very sticky problems and they are, very difficult, and you know the list goes on and on we just talked about birds what about all, you know zebra mussels (xx) it goes on and on. okay i have one little task, you're all ready to race out and jump in the lake and do something. we need to compile the info from this summer, this morning, which is not a big job. if you go into your groups, and, what you need to do i don't care about the individual points. what i c- we care about, is, uh, doing like we typically do on the checklist, i've got two right here so (let me,) um, you're gonna summarize, and put those on the checklist. we just had these, (xx) 
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