



S1: okay.
S2: did you say anything about the paper?
S1: yeah i did.
S2: are you gonna repeat that? can i ask you after class today?
S1: let's, there are several of you who missed the comments on the paper. who who missed the comments on the paper? 
SU-F: i did.
S1: so why don't we huddle in the corridor after class please because there's another class that'll come in and i don't wanna repeat the whole thing in front of class. so we can have a consultation after class. okay? alright. um, couple announcements but maybe you wanna start first and then i'll go into some things and then we'll go into Sarah's presentation.
S1: now one announcement, Diane i won't use her last name. <LAUGH> [S3: why? ] recorded for us [S3: oh ] a an A-and-E program which ran Sunday night right? and i missed it cuz i never have time to watch T-V. but she recorded it. it's a video recording and it's excellent. um, it's actually called, The Good Book of Love, colon, Sex in the Bible. um, it's really fine. it's quite excellent. um, there_ it's well done. there's a lot of artwork in it as background, the narration is good. they have, one two three four five six seven eight nine ten eleven esteemed Biblical scholars. giving different perspectives on the various topics on sex in the Bible. i have put it, in the Language Resource Center. the Language Resource Center is on the second floor of the Modern Languages Building. you can look at it i think up to five of you can look at any one time so if there's more than one of you who shows up, these are the hours they're quite liberal i thought about how do i get this, best uh how is this best accessible to you, and i figured if i put into the Language Resource Center it would be very fine. so it'll be there till the end of the term, it'll give you ideas. there_ they_ the the discussion is excellent also in terms of attitudes towards sexuality in the Old Testament as opposed to the New Testament as opposed to the early Christian writers Saint Augustine and so on, so, look at it get some ideas it might help you with your paper who knows, and uh, thank Diane. 
SS: thank you, Diane.
S1: um, any questions on that? it takes, oh i don't know an hour and forty-five minutes if you look at the whole thing. so it's time well spent. any questions, or comments some of you missed last time some of you were busy dancing, or dancing_ what was the dancing for, Rina?
S4: it was, um, a fund-raiser for the children's hospital and Beaumont Hospital
S1: oh i see [S4: yeah ] which children's hospital at Beaumont ?
S5: Mott 
S4: and Mott's
S1: and Mott. okay. did you raise lots of money? 
S4: yeah, we did.
S1: and you danced nonstop, more or less.
S4: yeah, more or less. <LAUGH>
S1: wow 
S5: (xx)
S1: okay, so now you're rested. um, maybe you can get notes from someone. any um, questions, or comments regarding last, time's um, session? one more point i wanted to make about the daughters of Zeloph- Zelophehad. and i, alluded to it, maybe i didn't stress it enough we have here a legal case, Kim you'll wanna know look look back on it and if any of you wanna meet with me sometime talk about some of this it's fine. um, what is so interesting about that story these five daughters, is not only that they present the case which we already talked about they present the legal case, to the heads, of the, heads of the state. i mean these are, this is a little bit intimidating. but, they present it themselves. with all the legal arguments, they present it themselves. they don't get themselves a spokesman. they don't get themselves some man, to speak for them because they're only women okay, not only do they present the case legally, uh in in the in the correct legal language and legal arguments and all of that, but they present it themselves. you're talking about a patriarchal society, but they're not, intimidated by that, they hold their own, they present their case well, they are mentioned in Joshua that it's rehearsed in Numbers uh so you know they really make a point for themselves. now how many of us, present our own legal case in court? not many. and so if we're intimidated by this in our modern age, uh i think it speaks very well for women, being heard, being acknowledged, being given recognition. they won their own legal case it's taken to the deity. Moses takes it to God, which is only proper in his role as prophet, he is the mouthpiece of God, God gives the judgment, but they give them, a serious hearing. and, so that's one of the points i don't know if i, honed in on it enough because we sort of ran out of time, but it's very interesting in terms of setting precedent, in terms of setting uh jurisprudence and so on. uh, have any of you had experience with the law? with legal things? how did that go?
<S3 LAUGH> 
SU-F: good
<SS LAUGH> 
S1: good. i've had experience with the law too. i built this little old cottage up north. in, what, after i got the foundation i had all the permits. i got the foundation then, i got a stop order. all the constructions on the harbor it's on Presgill Harbor got stop orders. one November. nine constructions. and mine among them. they all went with a legal case with a legal firm. i said no way am i going with a legal firm i'm not building this house on spec. it's mine. the logs are on site, i've already paid for the roof, i'll do the legal work myself. and i did. and it took me months. but, i got the permit. i had to fight the D-N-R, the Fish Game and Wildlife Commission, the um, Army Corps U-S Army Corps of Engineers, they know me. <LAUGH> and the people in the area. anyways. let, you know, you can you can take your case and you can win. so there you are. the daughters of Zeholephad Zelophehad and i think i've said enough. but i did wanna, bring that out. any q- other questions or comments on that? then we should let Sarah have, uh time because, and take as much time as you like and then we'll go into Deborah, and if we don't finish Deborah today we'll finish Deborah next time. 
<P :07> 
S6: okay. um, i'm gonna do, um, a presentation on the Song of Songs, and um, i just became interested in it um, after Erin's talk when Professor Reichert said something about um, there's the only other, um instance of like_ at like, um, besides, um, Rebekah at the well of the kiss, was like Song of Songs. and then, um, i remembered my cousin's a folk singer, and um she wrote a song based on the Song of Songs which i'll play for you later it's really short. um, but i brought that in. um, but, i have a different, Bible version than you so you'll just have to find it yourself but, it's it's very short and i really, really um, liked it a lot. and it's one of my favorite um books in the Bible. just because i think it's it's just really [S3: it's in the middle ] beautiful language. um, but, as far as interpretations i found so so so much information. i'm just gonna try i'm gonna try to put as much in as i can and there's still some things that i wanna put in that i just don't have time for. but um there's two main interpretations. one is the rabbinical interpretation from the Midrash which is um, scripture interpretation Jewish scripture interpretation, and that's from the rabbis, and they say that um, it's not a love story it's not a love song it's not nuptial vows, it is, a metaphor between God and the Jewish people just signifying, um, the love and the marriage between God and the Jewish people. and the covenant. um, and the rabbis who wrote the Mid- the Midrash aren't exactly feminists, first of all and second of all the only the way they could probably get the Song of Songs_ or it's also called the Song of Solomon, um, into the Bible would be, to make a metaphor out of it because it does have sexual erotic, um undertones things that aren't supposed to be appropriate, um for the Bible, you know at that time or whatever. um, the structure of it is, um, is kind of confusing sometimes because, um in some parts of, these um sh- eight short, chapters, it's very clear that um there's a female voice in some it's very clear that there's a male voice and in some, um areas it's it's kind of ambiguous. so, Jewish feminists take that opportunity to um, to infer God's feminine or nurturing aspects. um, and so that's where like the whole Jewish feminit- the feminist Jewish, um standpoint cam- started in this. um, as far as the question of authorship, um, what the like th- the rabbis say, um, it's attributed to Solomon. um, and then the first line is <READING> the Song of Songs which is to Solomon. </READING> which could mean that A he wrote it. B it belongs to him, or C the subject matter is, directed towards him. and um, Solomon's name is mentioned six times, in, um, the book... um, but another interpretation is that several people wrote, different parts different poems um in it and then later on they were all assembled together. um the Christian approach and i didn't find very much um on the Christian views, of the Song of Songs but um it's supposed to be the romance of Jesus and the church with Mary as the chief female figure. so that's the Christian approach am i going too fast? okay. um, characters. there's two main char- or one, um interpretation is there's two main characters. and one interpretation is there's three. and i don't really see three. but um the two main characters are Solomon and a Shulammite shepherdess, and um, it's, the, the um female lover is um the rhy i think i don't know how to pronounce it but it's R-H-Y. and that's the female and the male is the dodi. um so those are like, the, that interpretation with the two main characters. um the one with three main characters and i didn't see this at all, but i read it um, it's Solomon and another shepherd and they're like, vying, for the affection of the Shulammite woman. so that is the um, the rabbinic approach. the feminist approach is i just think is so awesome. um, and i found an entire book about the feminist approaches to the Song of Songs and there's so much, good stuff in it. um, what it is is it_ like, the feminists say it's it's completely secular it's one of the most_ only secular, um, parts that um, is is unbiased. and they say they say that there is kind of like one opaquely, um opaque mention of God and that's in, chapter eight verse six, and um, it says <READING> set me as a seal upon your heart, as a seal upon your arm for love is strong as death, passion fierce as the grave it flashes_ its flashes are flashes of fire a raging flame. </READING> and um, the reas- that_ the reason i see_ could see that but i would've had to have been directed to see it is because um, in Jewish tradition you have what's called tefillin and um, it's_ there's_ it's a box with a prayer inside attached to some leather straps, and you wind it around your head, and around your arms in a certain way that's supposed to symbolize the shape of God you, wind it around your hand in the shape of the Jewish letter shin, which means God. and um, so that's why i thought it was a seal upon your arm. and then, cuz God has appeared in, fire before. so that's, that's the only thing i see but otherwise it's, it's fairly, secular. um... it's it can be_ the Song of Songs is read as less biased from the rest of the Bible because, um, the enormous significance of the female element. um, the fem- feminist interpretation says that, um, they_ at the very least some of the poetry of the Song of Songs should be attributed to feminist perspectives or even feminist, um authorship. um, and because of this the text provides, um a way to discuss culture and reclamation (of) the affinities of the Song of Songs with other poems in the_ (or,) other female poems in the Bible the um the song of Deborah the song of Miriam. um, so
S1: there's a question.
S6: oh.
S4: okay. i've never read the Song of Songs so could you just give like a general [S6: sure. ] like cuz i don't_ i've never like read it so i don't know what like it's [S6: it's ] about or anything. 
S6: it is um a dialogue and it's been called a drama between, um, the bride and the bridegroom. it's_ a lotta people think it's nuptials, um or just people professing their love um, it's very flowery kind of beautiful poetic language really different from the prose, um that's the rest of the Bible or the you know stuff that isn't a song per se, and um... there i mean there's a lot of metaphor in it. and like i said the metaphor like the rabbinic, um scholars see it not at all as um a conversation between a man and a woman but, as um God and the people.
S7: is that why they think it's in here? because it's a metaphor 
S6: yeah. that's why. yeah. that's 
S1: that's how they justify its inclusion. [S6: that's ] it's a metaphor for God, as the bridegroom and Israel as the bride. so it's a celebration of the bridegroom so you can read it on a number of levels. and one of them_ and that's why it's in the canon, it's canonized. it's part of the sanctified text. is that it's seen on that level. as a metaphor between God the b- bridegroom and Israel the bride. because in Amos for example Hosea. God is the, the the husband and Israel is the wife. that's one level. but that's a little hard to see. but that's how some people interpret it. um, but what Sarah's saying and i would concur it's it's a celebration of sexuality, primarily seen from, the woman's voice. i mean if you really wanna celebrate, sex, there it is. read it. it's interesting. and read a modern more modern translation than this one, or read several. go to Borders. go to, um Shaman Drum. sit there. you don't have to buy the book.
S6: there's a book called Discovering Eve. and i can't remember the author right now. i didn't read it but i was it was um, [S1: yeah ] somebody suggested it to me. um, that, as far as social attitudes go it's com- it seems like it has completely different social attitude from like the patriarchical(sic) um, other parts of the Bible. um it shows a loving couple um, very um, equal, um relationship. and i- which is singular in the Old Testament. because it really_ it doesn't very_ it doesn't show often um equality of the husband and the wife the man and the woman. um and, the f- um female voice and the female figure is much more prominent. um, there's allusions to matrilineal and matrilocal sys- values and what that means, anthropologically is matrilineal is where you trace your family line through your mother, and matrilocal means that you live where your mother lives. um it it isn't however matriarchical(sic) which is, um it's beca- because the entire Bible's written in a patriarchical(sic) sense. um, and this kind of ties into um modern Jewish thought. er- and i mean even previous Jewish thought is that, um the religion of your child depends on, um, the religion of the mother. like for instance my father's um, very Irish Catholic except my mother's Jewish so i was raised Jewish. so that's um, how it's um, that's like a matrilineal line. um
S1: it's just like Moses's mother.
S6: um, there are fratrilineal(sic) <S3 LAUGH> and um fratriarchical(sic), um, aspects. which means the power belongs to the, women's brothers. um and i'll get into that a little bit later. um but there are no, or very few or no apparent references to a patriarchical(sic) society. and i think this is really cool because it's just it's like a stepping stone, for constructions of social order it just, if i mean even, even if you know after you get through the Song of Songs and then you just go back to regular, it's just kin- it just kind of was like a ray of light or a ray of hope, um, for women that's the way i i read it. um... the words of um, the rhy, the woman lover comprise most of the book and the most important element is of her wishful thinking of her dreams, um of her hopes, and her love, and, which d- wh- it all determines the plot and the framework of the whole, book and it's a- it's all hers. so i just thought that was really cool. like wh- i mean if you take_ and i- it doesn't take very long if you go through it pretty thoroughly, you can just like you can just see how much more she is involved in it than, um the male role. which is not to say anything bad about the male role, it's just that she has the majority of the emotion and of the text and stuff in here. there's three detailed, um descriptions of her, of the female lover in, um the book and only one of the male, and um, it's bec- um a lot of, um like Egyptian poetry. i read a lot about Egyptian poetry because um, Egyptian and Arabic Islamic because um, it's all kind of a little bit related. and Egyptian poetry only depicts the female body, never the male, but they don't really i i it seemed when i was reading it that they don't really do it in kind of um a gawking way just to show the beauty. and the Song of Songs is considered a wedding song by a lot of people. and, um very often there's bits of the Song of Songs in nuptial vows and in Jewish weddings, only the beauty of the bride are sung. it's all about, um, you know, the bride and her beauty and h- her day. and um this is_ i'll play you the song now. um, this, my cousin Julie lives in California, and she's a folk singer. and um, sh- my, she has a sister named Robin my other cousin. and um, she wrote it for her, sister. and sang it at her wedding and then later put it on this album. so i think it's really pretty. <P :10> it's called um, the title of the song is You Have Captured My Heart. and if you read um, the Song of Songs, then, um, you should be able to recognize, some lines. taken directly from the text. 
<START SOUND CLIP> 
S6: it's like three minutes long, so (xx) 
S6: um, so that's the song. um, and
<LATECOMER ARRIVES> 
S1: come sit down.
SU-F: i didn't want to interrupt.
S6: i was just um, i'm doing the Song of Songs and i was just playing a song that my cousin wrote that, um is_ that comes from the book. um, so i mean there's lines like, um in chapter two verse two it says <READING> as a lily among the brambles </READING> and li- my and um and the song says like a lily among the thorns, it sa- my beloved um, <READING> my beloved is mine and i am his. </READING> that's two-sixteen. um... <READING> how sweet is your love my sister my bride. </READING> that's four-ten. so i mean she just kind of, um, took various lines and put them in where they fit. um, the way of, life, um, is feminine it's_ never talks about um any fathers, or um, or any male dominat- uh, any male-dominated society. um, the bride, um, refers to my mother's house several times which infers that her father's dead. so, um, that's where the fratrilineage(sic) comes in, cuz once her fathers die her brothers, take over. um, King Solom- uh when it talks about Solomon it only talks about his mother. and in three-ei- in three-eleven it says <READING> look, oh daughters of Zion at King Solomon at the crown with which his mother crowned him on the day of his wedding on the day of hi- of the gladness in his heart. </READING> um, so it appears that his mother has an important role in his wedding, as well. um, King Solomon, um, i- i mean n- no- now i'm i'll just give you some numbers about um, the different sexes that are mentioned various times. King Solomon talks about his friends, his is- his companions. it says twice in passing and it's just in the third person. um, while the bride's own friends, and she calls them daughters of Jerusalem daughters of Zion, are mentioned seven times. um, it mentions daughters or young women five times. and i, in reference to the female lover more than twe- more than a dozen times. um, does anybody have any questions so far? mhm
S8: um, in chapter one, it talks_ it has the um, first person plural. in verse, four. <READING> we rejoice and delight in you we will praise your love, more than wine. </READING> um, i was just wondering what you thought that was? 
S3: that's part of my question actually. 
S6: um, i think i think that she's talking, i mean it's i think she's talking um, i think it's the bride and her friends are talking, uh, or um, her... i think it's her friends actually, talking to her. 
S3: right. the tradition- interpretation of this that i'm familiar with is that there's the bride and the groom and there's these group of friends, or who are kind of narrators. uh, and they kind of, pitch in from time to time. uh, so i was
S1: yeah other women and that's that's the refrain, [S3: yeah yeah ] or the chorus. and that's one of the interpretations.
S6: um, oh okay. i thought this was really neat. and this um, i think that this is um, i wanna say Phyllis Trible, um, in this collection of wome- of feminists, who wrote this really great book and i i'll put the source on the board afterwards. um, in in th- Genesis in the Adam and Eve story when God punishes or curses Eve and says um you shall desire your husband and he will um, be your master. and um i- the woman's inclination and the woman's desire subjugate, her, to, Adam. Eve to Adam. but in the Song of Songs, um, chapter, seven verse ten it says i am my lover's, his desire is for me. so here i think, she unties this bondage, from Genesis and, then we encounter a new relationship between the two sexes. and it's equality and um mutuality, so, i really liked that part a lot. um... there were... um... In the Wake of the Goddesses there weren't very many things but it said Tikva Frymer-Kensky says that the Bible treats sex as just kind of like, it's a commodity or it's just something, um for procreation and it's, it's all about with whom and where and when. and um, in the Song of Songs, sex is unconstrained or sex sexuality or eroticism is unconstrained, um, by social considerations. and um, it recognizes the s- that um, sex comes from love, and not just procreation or, um, you know marriage in terms of um, a ma- creating alliances. so, um love comes from love. and um, she's never called a wife she's never asked to procreate, um, never asked to childbear. um, so that's that's that one that is In the Wake of the Goddesses. um, the last, thing that i wanted to, say was um, that, in the medieval times in Portugal, um ab- women used to come together and sing to each other about women just like in a celebration and there's a really remarkable degree of similarity between the Song of Songs and then it's called the Cantigas de Amigo and in it, um, they they do the s- same kind of things where they talk about, um eroticism and sexuality and they're all talking to other women but they, but they don't express it literally they they make it for interpretation. um, and they call each other beautiful which um, i really like. and in um... and in chap- in chapter one verse five, it says i'm black and beautiful. and so it's just um, the re- oh i read the reason it says i'm black and beautiful it's because she's not, supposedly she's not royalty she's a commoner and she's been working in the vineyards or working in the pasture so her skin is all tanned. and um, um, you know just her own, um, like i don't know that she thinks she's beautiful, that um, i really like that part. and um, that's i mean that's basically all i have i just, um, i really like it because um, there's a lot of strong women in the Bible but it doesn't, it doesn't give a lot of description of them and it doesn't give them a lot of depth. you can just kind of see by their actions that they're strong, but, um... women as lovers with emotional depth aren't really shown except for in here. and um, most of them are given the short shrift and i really like that this was, mainly um, a women's thing in here. does anybody have any questions? <P :04> do you 
S1: (comments) 
S6: i was i was just gonna ask if um, what you guys thought about the interpretation how you feel about um, the meaning of the metaphor with um the rabbinic metaphor or a feminist metaphor or if there's like, a mix of both.
S9: i think i think it probably could be a mix of both like, i think both interpretations are valuable i think like, the feminist interpretation is in_ is really valuable on a personal level. i think, and especially to women in sexuality and even to men in sexuality, and i think that the Rabbinic, um, thing is also really um, a good interpretation for religious purposes and for like faith purposes and it it could be a really beautiful poem. um, to express like um a relationship with God and the people too. i think that both interpretations are, good ones.
S10: i've also heard an interpretation that um, the Song of Songs was, like, about God's gift of like love and sexuality and marriage to, to people. like like a gift for us. and that it was written in there like, because nowhere else does it say it. um, i don't know cuz... all the all the, mainly poetic books are pretty much lumped together. and like a lot of 'em, are about like, all kinds of random things but this one's like all about, like love marriage, and this, this whole theme and i- and i i don't know one interpretation is just that, it was in there to show that, it was a gift for us or something. i don't i don't have references for that though.
S6: no, i, i it sounds familiar and i think that that's really cool i like that a lot.
S3: um, it's interesting that you talked about you know the Bible's view of sex and i don't think the who- the entire Bible is anti-sex i mean <LAUGH> (you can) 
S6: i don't think_ go ahead. 
S3: y- your statement was a little i think overgeneral i thought. i mean, you can find other references, especially in the New Testament, i think that, that uh, indicate that it's a gift and
S6: i um, i think, no i don't think it i don't think it's i don't think it's looked down upon but i think in terms of um, i just i really don't like, um, when they say, it ju- i mean it's archaic language obviously but when they say he knew he lay with her it just seems like, a chore or something. you know, and um... the, the Midrash isn't obviously for the New Testament so, and that's what i, did research on the rabbinic um, research of it. but um... y- no i i don't think that the Bible is wholly again- anti, sexuality. but i do think that, um, it's, very cautious maybe even overly cautious. in a modern sense. <P :06> anybody else?
S1: i think it's uh, a wonderful statement of sexuality. the way it starts, the Song of Songs. that's um, already hyperbole that's the highest song. it's and it's a poem and it's a song. it's the highest song. that's what it means. Song of Songs. and then it starts into a celebration of love. the imagery is, of of fruit of figs of wine, of of of of pomegranates of mandrakes, it's all a cel- a celebration of love and sexuality. in a in a very positive way and and upholds that and i think you're absolutely right um, and it's uninhibited and that's the beauty of it. a celebration of uninhibited eroticism. and that's what makes it so unusual in the Bible. and they did include it in the canon. and that's interesting too. but you start out with sexual imagery. <READING> oh that you would kiss me with the kisses of your mouth for your love is better than wine. your anointing oils are fragrant. your name is oil poured out. </READING> it's already a celebration. and then as you said, in the next verse, um, well even before that <READING> we will extol and rejoice in you. we will extol our_ your love more than wine ripely do they love you. </READING> and then the next verse, <READING> i am dark and beautiful. </READING> that's that's the translation it's not here but that you know scholars have argued that is the correct way to interpret it it's not but it's and. and so all of what she's done she's been out in the field she's been in the vineyard she's been in the sun, she's beautiful and the whole thing is a celebration and it's it's overt eroticism <READING> upon my bed at night i sought him. </READING> i mean it keeps going, it's wonderful poetry and it's a real celebration. and it takes you right back to the, Garden of Eden with all of these springtime, ritual the blossoms in spring. um, God brings Eve to Adam. so that they will be one flesh that's the celebration of marriage. and you have it all over here the same kind of imagery as you have in the Garden of Eden. and i think that's um, intensifies that. if that adds anything i don't know. yes?
S9: i was gonna say too that, i mean even if it is looked at, as um, even if it's taken as an interpretation of God's relationship with Israel, the fact that they use such um, sexual um, images and and ideas, says something for the sexual experience. [S1: mhm ] i mean the fact that they're using that, um, in that interpretation to represent a relationship between God and humans really says a lot for, how um, amazing and wonderful human sexual experiences are. that they can use it that way so
S1: and the description of the anatomy it's all there. none of it's couched. i mean, they talk about all of the you know all of the female body. the breasts everything, on down. um, in in a language of celebration. it's really quite remarkable. so yeah.
S6: there's another um thing that i didn't mention but it it's kind of um, interesting is, it's just, uh uh this is just something i got off the web and and it it's an interpretation that it's it's all about unity. and that especially in the kiss. um, it says in here, that the kiss of love ext- extends into four spirits, and the spirits are supernal the supernal chariot companionship unis- unison and wholeness. and the four, spirits are the four limbs of the body. and when two people kiss or two people join, um maybe in intercourse or something that each of the four spirits or each of the pa- four limbs of the body they flow into one another and they all beco- they all unite. and i think it's_ really makes a statement about, unity and equality because, everything that we've read so, so far is um, is just the difference between the women and there just seems to be at least for me there just seems to be such, a huge gap between the men and the women and they're always, um, separated by just tha- something that's not equal. and um, that it's <READING> let him kiss with the kisses of his mouth </READING> it's the second, um verse. that's what um this says here. and then there's some Hebrew letters that um, denote this spirit um the four spirits, whatever. so, i just i liked that whole the unity, idea.
S1: if you look at chapter two verse sixteen (and) seventeen. <READING> my beloved is mine and i am his. </READING> that's sexual union. <READING> he pastures his flock among the lilies. </READING> lilies has, been used as a metaphor for, women's genitalia. so what what are they talking about? it's quite clear. <SS LAUGH> <READING> until the day breeze and the shadows flee </READING> so it's all about a night of lovemaking. <READING> turn my beloved be like a gazelle, or a young stag upon a rugged mountain, </READING> or upon upon rugged mountains. those are the breasts. i mean it's really, it's the imagery's beautiful but, and it's lofty. but it's very graphic it's right there.
S6: i think that that that that if um, there there i- you know people were trying to get this, in regardless of what they thought, um what the authors wrote it as, i think that they were very smart in getting it in there, um, for whomever's, um, you know for whatever point of view you take it for, um, you know, it's in there. i mean that's, that's the point that it's in there and i think whate- however you interpret it or ho- whatever you take from it, from, you know however many interpretations there are it's important.
S10: did you say that this, like from your research like, it was credited to Solomon? because like, when he wrote a lot of this stuff it was, after, like his, like he had turned away from God and come back, and it seems like... i don't know i just had this funny thought that, like, like if he had that kind of experience, like, if it was a man writing this it would be more likely to be about, like the actual, like less than metaphorical sense. you know like he was using all these metaphors to describe, like sexual relations but, it's probably less likely that, it was like, him thinking about this is God's union with Israel. you know what i mean? 
S1: it's not attributed to Solomon. uh it's linked to Solomon somehow because Solomon had, he built the temple. he was, he had wisdom. somehow it it it comes at that point in Israel where they're at the height, their golden age. and so the song is linked to him in that way. but they don't attribute authorship_ well they argue about it but i don't think (it's his) 
S6: but a- in the Anchor Bible Dictionary it says it has no att- like, no one has con- like, said that there's one you know one, attributed author there's, continuous arguments about it.
S3: it could've been someone in his court though that he hired, or that's why it could be in the, yeah 
S1: it comes fr- yeah from a (high) period of of of of literacy in in uh the history of Israel. thank you Sarah. that was very nice... any other questions or comments? before we go on to the, account of Deborah and Jael... okay. it's just very interesting and i left a book there for you in case you wanna take a look i finally dug it out of my library. okay. <P :05> let's go on to the story of Deborah Judges four, and five. it's a marvelous story. we may not finish it that's alright. it's a very very interesting story, and yet not much space is given to it you could blink and you'd miss it. um, but it's a celebration of woman... in a number of aspects. she is um, s- we have some other sources, in Josephus she was called or she had um, the, the um, the task of keeping the tabernacle lamps, in the priestly tradition. so that's a sort of a lowly task, but nonetheless important to the temple tradition highly regarded, she's a prophetess, and the prophetess, is the mouthpiece of the deity of God. she is called a judge, in the account, she's also a visionary. she has a sense of the future she has a sense of mission, you might say, she's um, parallel to perhaps their version of Joan of Arc. she's a military leader she wins victories. how do we um, get to all that? um, she... is introduced into the text in chapter four Israel is in a sen- in a time of, trial. um, they have been, um, under the king, Jabin for twenty years, uh he's been king of Canaan, he's oppressed Israel, um, that's in some of the other accounts, the vineyards have been destroyed the women have been dishonored, we know what that means. um, the children have been slain, many have turned to worship idols. so it's a low point, in the history of Israel. but we're in Judges and Judges is sort of uh, in a sense uh, a a heroic time. and so then we get into the story, of Deborah. in Judges four, th- verse three, where there's Sisera, his army. how many chariots does he have? [SS: nine hundred ] nine hundred chariots. that's a lot of chariots <SS LAUGH> right? how many armed warriors go with this? so that's a huge army. and chariots are formidable weapons. and don't_ you know don't underrate them. <SS LAUGH> we're in the Iron Age. Israel hasn't got chariots. what pulls chariots? [SS: horses. ] horses. well they barely started having horses they've got them well it's still early but nonetheless Israel doesn't have chariots they don't have iron uh much of an iron culture, they don't have horses they don't have the equipment they don't have the arms they don't have the iron, and here's Sisera, lording it over them <READING> and he oppressed the people cruelly for twenty years. </READING> the end of verse three. and then we're introduced to this woman, Deborah a prophetess, she's a wife. she's not stressed for her wifely role but she's a wife. and what does she do? she's judging Israel at that time. where does she judge? what's her seat? where's her seat? where does she do this judging?
S2: she sits under like a tree.
S1: she sits under a tree what kind of a tree?
S5: palm tree.
S1: a palm tree, called... [S8: Deborah ] Deborah. she has her own palm tree. this is her, ground. this is the palm tree called Deborah. the palms were stately. and um, she's in the hill country here, between Bethel and um, um, Ramah in the hill country you could look at it on the map. we'll look at the_ it_ in_ on the map in a minute. and it's repeated the people of Israel came to her for judgment. now, the people of Israel are under oppression. what kind of cases is she hearing? and judging? and she's judging them she has this plateau she's got this great palm tree she sits under. she's up from Jericho, in the hill country. you can imagine_ it doesn't tell us but she's, listening to their cases and she's judging and they're coming to her from everywhere. she's well-known. she's highly regarded. so what does she do then? she sends for and summons Barak, from the son of Abinoa- noam from Kadesh, in Naphtali. so she sends for the foremost military leader, and he comes. now that's rather remarkable. look at your map. in the back you have your maps right? remember your maps? map three. Israel and Canaan Joshua to Samuel and Saul. and you look at, up from Jerusalem <P :05> you see, uh, Bethel. she's between Ramah and Bethel. do you see it there? up in the hill country. and then she sends <P :04> um, for Barak. and he's in um, Kadesh. now look at where Kadesh is. you go past the Lake of Kinneret which is the Lake of Galilee you keep going up the Jordan River and you see Kadesh there. do you see it? that's a long way away. he's not just in the neighboring town. and later on the battle will take uh place at the River of Kishon near the Mount Carmel. do you see it there? Harosheth Haggoyim, near the um, near the Mediterranean. so that's where you're going to have the battle lines drawn. but she sends for him way up north and he comes down. so all of this is kind of an understatement. and she summons him and she says to him, the Lord God of Israel commands you. that's her role as prophetess she speaks through God. she is uh, speaks through the Deity and then she orders him, <READING> gather your men at Mount Tabor taking ten thousand from the tribe of Naphtali and from the tribe of Zebulun, and i will draw out Sisera the general of Jabin's army to meet you by the River Kishon with his chariots and his troops and i will give him into your hand. </READING> so she's, calling him out, she's commanding him, she's got a battle plan, she's got all kinds of confidence, she conveys it to him. and, a lot of it is behind the scenes. she trusts God first she's the counselor of the people, the judge in their disputes, then she becomes, the deliverer of the people she makes a plan, they've been oppressed for twenty years, nobody else has come along. so she trusted God implicitly, she could inspire in others this same trust. she inspires it in Barak, sort of, not right away... um, Barak says to her, and these are the most unusual lines, in Biblical history. he says this mighty general. <READING> if you will go with me i will go. if you will not go i won't go. </READING> okay? and she responds, <READING> i will surely go with you. </READING> she doesn't say oh wait lemme ask my husband right? she makes her own decisions. she says yes i will surely go and then she prophesies some more. um, so she she's in a sense the personification of this free spirit in Israel. she understands what she's doing she's got all kinds of self-confidence. um, she says <READING> the road on which you are going will not lead to your glory. for God will sell Sisera into the hand of a woman. </READING> now you're gonna think she means herself. but she doesn't. okay? but she does_ it's like a riddle. we've we've run into riddles before, right? so it's like a oracle. um, so Sisera you're not gonna get the glory for this a woman is gonna get the glory. and then she arose and went with Barak to Kadesh, and then Barak summons the army. these ten thousand so he's doing it on her word on her confidence on her inspiration on her vision. um, so in a sense she becomes the chieftain. from the role of homemaker uh keeper of tabernacle lights, she now uh is in the hill country, and uh, and is is becoming military leader co-leader. so together they work out a plan of action. together um, they they plan and plot. he gathers the men, and it repeats again, l- last part of verse ten Deborah went up with him. then we get, um, to this next little, these_ the next verse, Heber, that's really anticipating what comes next. Heber who's he? [S3: Kenite. ] he's a Canaanite, Heber the Kenite. uh they're descendants of Hobab he's the father-in-law of Moses, and they've pit- <READING> he's pitched his tent as far away as the oak in, Zaanannim which is near Kadesh. </READING> so, but who is Heber anybody know? remember?
S8: he's Jael's husband.
S1: he's Jael's husband. so here we're introduced to Jael's husband. and the reason for this introduction here is, that um, that um, Sisera thinks that the Kenite is going to be loyal to him. um, and so, that's um they they had separated themselves and they were sort of off in their own tents so they're itinerant they're they're wanderers and they're living in tents. and then we get back to the main action. um <P :06> so Sisera gathers his chariots his nine hundred chariots of iron, it it repeats it for emphasis and all the men who were with him and they get to the river Kishon. um, and then there's Deborah. and you can sort of see her standing on a rock, she is the one, who tells him what to do. she is the one who inspires him to action. um, she says, what does she say? up up up get up. she tells him. <READING> this is the day in which the Lord has given Sisera into your hand. does not the Lord go out before you? </READING> so she's telling him she's dictating the action she's commanding the beginning of the battle. she says up, Barak. and so Barak went down from Mount Tabor with ten thousand men following him so he's he's got his ten thousand it's repeated, now, from other sources. from Josephus. do you remember Josephus? okay. he's the historian i mentioned before. from Josephus we know and also from the song of Deborah which comes later we get some pieces of information on how the battle went. the the text here doesn't tell us. but Josephus says, that <READING> the storm of sleet and hail burst out over the plain from the east, driving into the face of Sisera and his men and his charioteers. </READING> and, the slingers and the archers, do you remember the movie Ben-Hur? <SS LAUGH> how do they fight with chariots? <P :04> how does it work? 
SU-F: don't they run into each other?
S1: yeah in Ben-Hur they do they have this race. um
S3: i thought they sort of, uh, they'll run up, and fire their arrows you know sort of, and then, turn around and run back or <LAUGH>
S1: so it's not the best way of fighting. the um, the the Greeks then under Alexander the Great developed the stirrups well actually they were developed a little sooner but then you had a horseman on a horse, with stirrups and s- then he could fire the arms without having another man guide the horses. see in the chariot you've got someone guiding the chariots and then these other guys, in the chariot firing away but it's a very cumbersome way of fighting. so anyways, uh, the storm came the sleet and hail in their faces, um, handicapping the men and and and the chariots, and the slingers and archers were disabled by the beating rain and the swordsmen were crippled by the biting cold. i'm sure they weren't wearing stuff i mean or else what were they wearing? cloaks? and that hampers your arms. um, Deborah and Barak had the storm behind them. and they saw, uh, that the storm was lashing the enemy and they pushed on. and of course this is Yahweh the storm God. this is divine providence this is the Deity looking after them, i'm sure giving them courage. um, as is_ as Deborah had prophesied. and then with all this rain and sleet, uh, the flood waters went down the Kishon River and what happened to the chariots? they sank in the mud. whereas these foot soldiers who didn't have much of anything except their hand arms, slew the enemy. they were not hampered by weight they were not hampered by iron, they weren't hampered by um, s- uh, shields and and arms, that that are heavy, so then you go on with the story, uh, the la- Lord routed Sisera. that's really what this is all about. and Josephus see uh, augments the story. <READING> and all his chariot and all his army before Barak at the edge of the sword, and Sisera alighted from his chariot, </READING> so so Sisera then what does he do this heroic guy? [SS: (xx) ] he leaves his soldiers in the lurch and runs off. that is that is not what the leader of the army's supposed to do right? <SS LAUGH> he runs away. <READING> he fled away on foot and Barak pursued the chariots and the army (Tarud) to Harosheth (Haggoyim) and all the army of Sisera fell by the edge of the sword not a man was left. </READING> that's a complete rout. um, and of course um, the Israelites may have had geographic advantage and so on we don't know. so here's the only guy that was left and he fled away on foot, <READING> Sisera to the tent of Jael the wife of Heber </READING> there you are, and um, and <READING> there was peace between Jabin the king of Hazor and the house of Heber. </READING> so Ja- so Sisera thinks he's safe. and Jael comes out and invites him into the tent. very interesting. and she says to him, <READING> turn aside my lord, have no fear. </READING> she doesn't say i'm not gonna do anything to you she says have no fear. you might say that's a little misleading. <SS LAUGH> and so he went into her tent and she covered him with a rug. see, why is she covering him with a rug?
S2: just relaxing him to get him... comfortable warm and, sleepy.
S1: yeah he's cold he's been out in the sleet in the ice he's soaked to the skin. she's covering him with a rug, he's he's he needs to get warm and he said to her give me a little water so he asks for water to drink. what does she give him? to_ [SU-F: milk ] pardon? [SU-F: milk ] milk why? 
SU-F: to put him to sleep better.
S1: yeah. see. when you've raised children, [S3: warm milk (xx) <SS LAUGH> ] when you've raised kids you know. [S3: (xx) ] you give 'em something to eat what do they do next? they fall asleep. [SU-F: throw up. ] i used to take Michael up north my grandson it's always a long trip. what do i do about an hour into the trip? i feed him and he eats and next thing you know he's sound asleep in the seat next to me. the the word, stillen... in German ein Kind stillen ein Baby stillen means to nurse a baby. and uh, to quiet a baby. uh, so that's where you get the English be still. right? so you give a baby milk, every mother knows it. and uh, then you put the baby to sleep. so here he is, Sisera in the tent. um, and she's giving him the milk, uh the curds and whatever. and he's nice and satisfied. and then, he says okay watch out. she's been having this in mind all along, she takes the tent peg. right? um, now what does that tell you about her? 
S2: she's strong.
S1: she's strong. she's determined. she gets only one chance. right? if she blows it, she's had it. and don't think a man's skull isn't very tough. um, so [S3: especially that guy's ] <SS LAUGH> yeah. so, you know how does she succeed? does she succeed? [SS: mhm ] she drives the pent_ tent peg right through his, his skull [S3: (xx) and he died. ] it's temples into the ground. on the first, first try. she only gets one. um, she goes softly to him. um, and he was fast asleep from weariness. he's been through a heck of a battle. and uh then, Barak pursued Sisera and Jael went out to meet him and what does she say to, to Barak? <P :04> you're looking for Sisera right? 
S3: he's occupied at the moment. <LAUGH>
S1: i will show you where he is. [S3: he's tied up ] she doesn't say oh well you know i'm this great hero and i've, i've done the guy in already. no she takes him into the tent and lets him see for himself. that's high drama and understatement. i mean this whole story is really a marvelous story in the way it just sort of flows. <READING> come and i will show you the man you are seeking and so he went into her tent and there lay Sisera dead with a tent peg in his temple </READING> again repetition for emphasis. and then, um, it says <READING> on that day God subdued Jabin the king of Canaan before the people of Israel and the hand of the people of Israel bore harder and harder on Jabin and so on until he destroyed Jabin king of Canaan. </READING> and then we get into the song of Deborah and that's probably what we have to do that next cuz there's a lot in the song. um... any questions so far? it's really a great story. do you think so?
SS: mhm.
S3: yeah. it's cool.
S1: so take another look at the song of Deborah <STUDENT SHAKES HEAD> you don't think so? um, with you know with that in mind, because the song of Deborah elaborates some things. it's a high song it's a great song it's a heroic song. we'll talk about the song of Deborah some more, and then we'll get into Jephthah's daughter and Beth is going to talk to us. right? on rape next time? 
S2: yeah, on Valentine's Day.
S1: pardon me?
S2: on Valentine's Day i'm talking about rape.
S1: ah yes. i hadn't made that connection. (it's true.)
S2: happy Valentine's Day everybody.
S1: so i will show you some slides because we have some great slides. not so many. but they're really very fine. so, you know we talk about women, in the prophetic tradition. and it's there. <P :08> do you like the story of Deborah? 
S1: lights <P :08> power... i always have this problem. can you turn the lights (off) please...? i know why. hold on. <P :07> has to do with all these cords. <P :12> why don't we get a light? <P :10> i'm not the best one for equipment you know. <LAUGH> i should give up. is there something wrong with this bulb? <P :05> help help, the bulb won't come on. power. <P :14> maybe we won't get any, pictures today. shoot. <P :13> i think the bulb's burned out. <P :06> anybody got any ideas?
S4: what, what happened?
<P :05> 
S1: no ideas.
S4: the light's not working is that what's wrong?
S1: the light's not coming on.
S4: the bulb is probably out.
S1: yeah... okay i'll have to bring 'em again next time. and complain to them. see. 
S3: did you try did you try turning it off and on again? 
S1: pardon me? 
S3: did you try turning it off and on again maybe? <P :06> that was the only idea i had.
S1: no bulb. <P :07> okay. <P :10> no slides today. i don't know what to say. any questions? okay. um, read the song of Deborah again and see what you make of it, see what voice it's in, see what celebrates see what it celebrates.
S1: thank you have a nice weekend
S1: yes uh that's why i brought it. [S6: okay. so ] who's the author?
S6: um, her name is... um, (xx) uh yeah. 
S1: oh that's where it is great.
S6: and she has i think she has Phyllis Trible in there.
S1: oh that's the compendium. okay.
S6: yeah it is really good i really liked it a lot.
S1: fine. alright. good. you did well. mhm?
S2: i'm leading a group presentation today and i was looking for some background sources (xx) i was gonna go to the grad library but i couldn't (xx) all the books were (xx) so if you have any other ideas, of sources (xx) anything (xx)
S1: um, it's a- no, you have to put some things together but you might want to look at the video.
S2: right. that's (xx)
S1: the video talks about it some. and it's interesting um, in terms of the Old Testament attitudes and the New. i mean it just talks about sexuality in general but it comes out in that. [S2: okay ] so i other than that i don't know where to send you.
S2: okay.
S3: um, um, i seem to have 
S1: do you suppose it's the bulb?
S3: i thi- it must be. i, i can't, there's no separate switch to turn the bulb on or anything. [S1: 'm'm. any ] if we looked at the bulb we might be able to tell, if the filament was uh 
S1: wait lemme lemme reverse it one more... because i have to get my slide out. there. okay. now, did you wanna ask me something?
S3: um, i seem to have uh lost my syllabus and i wonder if i could pick up [S1: oh. ] another one.
S1: i have i have more.
S3: okay, thank you. <P :04> i'm enjoying the class very much.
S1: oh i'm glad. <P :07> i'm enjoying teaching it.
<P :05> 
S3: perfect. thank you. [S1: mhm. ] look at this (xx)
S1: did you, you lost your whole notebook?
S3: yeah. i can't seem to find it anywhere. [S1: mm ] i'm usually not quite that scatterbrained but... it'll pop up i imagine. so how does the bulb, how is the bulb put in here?
S1: i don't know.
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