<time>442_00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:15,000</time>
<s>我想查一个东西</s>
<time>443_00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:16,080</time>
<s>然后忽然被带走了</s>
<time>444_00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:17,160</time>
<s>就不知道去哪儿了</s>
<time>445_00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:18,240</time>
<s>然后回来</s>
<time>446_00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:20,040</time>
<s>而人的大脑</s>
<time>447_00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:22,560</time>
<s>实际上是喜欢这种被打扰的</s>
<time>448_00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:24,360</time>
<s>就有的人说</s>
<time>449_00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:26,160</time>
<s>人为什么会迷恋手机因为</s>
<time>450_00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:27,960</time>
<s>就包括这个网络</s>
<time>451_00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:29,400</time>
<s>它不断地给你打断</s>
<time>452_00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:31,200</time>
<s>新的这个刺激</s>
<time>453_00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:32,280</time>
<s>在我们的前额叶</s>
<time>454_00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:34,080</time>
<s>就是去形成这个兴奋</s>
<time>455_00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:35,520</time>
<s>人是喜欢这样地被打扰</s>
<time>456_00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:37,320</time>
<s>但这样下去</s>
<time>457_00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:38,400</time>
<s>我就老想我这一天</s>
<time>458_00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:39,480</time>
<s>当我结束的时候</s>
<time>459_00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:40,200</time>
<s>我如果用一</s>
<time>460_00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:42,000</time>
<s>旁观者的眼光看我自己</s>
<time>461_00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:43,440</time>
<s>就在那里这么点时间</s>
<time>462_00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:45,240</time>
<s>然后忙忙叻叻</s>
<time>463_00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:45,960</time>
<s>不知道做了一些</s>
<time>464_00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:47,400</time>
<s>毫不相千的事情</s>
<time>465_00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:48,840</time>
<s>我觉得我会变成一种</s>
<time>466_00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:49,560</time>
<s>面目可憎的人</s>
<time>467_00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:52,080</time>
<s>第一个你的精力肯定不集中</s>
<time>468_00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:54,600</time>
<s>你的成就按原来古典的定义</s>
<time>469_00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:56,040</time>
<s>你的成就肯定差</s>
<time>470_00:14:56,760 --> 00:14:57,840</time>
<s>你的人生肯定浪费</s>
<time>471_00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:01,080</time>
<s>第二所有这些你做的事情</s>
<time>472_00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:03,240</time>
<s>都是人家精心研究出来</s>
<time>473_00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:05,040</time>
<s>最符合人性的</s>
<time>474_00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:07,200</time>
<s>所有你做的事情</s>
<time>475_00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:09,000</time>
<s>这个手机给你提供的</s>
<time>476_00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:10,440</time>
<s>一定是你们最符合</s>
<time>477_00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:12,240</time>
<s>如果不符合人性</s>
<time>478_00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:15,120</time>
<s>它早就把屏幕更大</s>
<time>479_00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:16,200</time>
<s>或者更小了</s>
<time>480_00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:17,280</time>
<s>为什么是这样大</s>
<time>481_00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:19,080</time>
<s>为什么这样操作</s>
<time>482_00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:20,160</time>
<s>这个大公司</s>
<time>483_00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:23,040</time>
<s>它一直在研究你人的特性</s>
<time>484_00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:25,200</time>
<s>而这个特性很多都是弱点</s>
<time>485_00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:26,280</time>
<s>没法抗拒的</s>
<time>486_00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:29,160</time>
<s>我们在这里能做的事情就是</s>
<time>487_00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:30,240</time>
<s>好你这么方便</s>
<time>488_00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:31,320</time>
<s>你这么多的手机</s>
<time>489_00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:33,120</time>
<s>但是我们怎么样</s>
<time>490_00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:36,000</time>
<s>继续用艺术的手段拍照</s>
<time>491_00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:39,240</time>
<s>这个才是人在这个潮流当中的</s>
<time>492_00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:40,320</time>
<s>抵抗能力</s>
<time>493_00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:43,200</time>
<s>这个科技影响</s>
<time>494_00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:46,080</time>
<s>生产力影响生产关系</s>
<time>495_00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:48,600</time>
<s>我要讲科技是最大的生产力</s>
<time>496_00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:49,320</time>
<s>它一推出来</s>
<time>497_00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:52,560</time>
<s>这个事情只要全世界这样流行</s>
<time>498_00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:55,440</time>
<s>你顺它者</s>
<time>499_00:15:56,520 --> 00:15:57,240</time>
<s>怎么来说</s>
<time>500_00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:00,480</time>
<s>顺之者昌逆之者亡</s>
<time>501_00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:01,560</time>
<s>你当然特别的人</s>
<time>502_00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:03,720</time>
<s>你可以说我不用手机</s>
<time>503_00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:06,240</time>
<s>但那都不是常态对不对</s>
<time>504_00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:09,120</time>
<s>但是它不妨碍人们</s>
<time>505_00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:11,640</time>
<s>还是用普通的照相机</s>
<time>506_00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:14,520</time>
<s>拍出艺术型的照片</s>
<time>507_00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:15,600</time>
<s>不妨碍一个人</s>
<time>508_00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:17,400</time>
<s>一天到晚拿着手机</s>
<time>509_00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:18,120</time>
<s>好像不离</s>
<time>510_00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:20,640</time>
<s>但是脑子还在思考别的问题</s>
<time>511_00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:22,440</time>
<s>所以我觉得</s>
<time>512_00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:24,600</time>
<s>我们唯一做的方法就是抵抗</s>
<time>513_00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:26,400</time>
<s>这种照片怎么拍法</s>
<time>514_00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:28,200</time>
<s>这种照片像写小说一样</s>
<time>515_00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:30,360</time>
<s>它拍一个人的一张照片</s>
<time>516_00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:31,440</time>
<s>是一瞬间</s>
<time>517_00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:33,240</time>
<s>其实要拍出他的人设</s>
<time>518_00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:36,480</time>
<s>或者说拍出他的典型性格</s>
<time>519_00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:38,280</time>
<s>换句话说要知道这个人</s>
<time>520_00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:40,440</time>
<s>知道贾平凹是一个什么样的人</s>
<time>521_00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:42,240</time>
<s>所以我刚才</s>
<time>522_00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:44,400</time>
<s>我的一个提问就是说</s>
<time>523_00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:45,480</time>
<s>摄影大师</s>
<time>524_00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:47,640</time>
<s>要是他不认识这些人</s>
<time>525_00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:49,440</time>
<s>他怎么来捕捉</s>
<time>526_00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:53,040</time>
<s>凭直觉来捕捉一个人的瞬间</s>
<time>527_00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:54,120</time>
<s>假如说史铁生</s>
<time>528_00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:55,920</time>
<s>他坐在一个轮椅上</s>
<time>529_00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:56,640</time>
<s>但是我觉得</s>
<time>530_00:16:57,000 --> 00:16:57,720</time>
<s>史铁生恰恰是一个</s>
<time>531_00:16:58,080 --> 00:16:59,520</time>
<s>内心非常强大的</s>
<time>532_00:16:59,880 --> 00:17:01,680</time>
<s>那么一个男人</s>
<time>533_00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:03,840</time>
<s>其实他的身体很不方便</s>
<time>534_00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:05,640</time>
<s>但是他内心很需要</s>
<time>535_00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:07,800</time>
<s>他让我给他找几张照片</s>
<time>536_00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:10,680</time>
<s>比如说刘易斯跑步的那个</s>
<time>537_00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:11,760</time>
<s>还有卡拉扬</s>
<time>538_00:17:12,120 --> 00:17:13,560</time>
<s>还有爱因斯坦什么的</s>
<time>539_00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:14,640</time>
<s>其实我觉得</s>
<time>540_00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:16,800</time>
<s>他内心他的眼睛他的胸怀</s>
<time>541_00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:20,400</time>
<s>其实是很开的</s>
<time>542_00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:21,480</time>
<s>但是我觉得这些东西</s>
<time>543_00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:24,720</time>
<s>都能够呈现在他的表情上脸上</s>
<time>544_00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:27,960</time>
<s>不太方便的身体上</s>
<time>545_00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:30,840</time>
<s>如果一个敏感的摄影师的话</s>
<time>546_00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:31,920</time>
<s>他哪怕静静地坐那儿</s>
<time>547_00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:33,720</time>
<s>看他几秒钟</s>
<time>548_00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:35,880</time>
<s>也许他能够接收到</s>
<time>549_00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:37,680</time>
<s>这样的一种信息的传递</s>
<time>550_00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:39,120</time>
<s>其实他有个办法</s>
<time>551_00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:40,200</time>
<s>就是当年为什么</s>
<time>552_00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:42,000</time>
<s>能够拍出这些照片呢</s>
<time>553_00:17:42,360 --> 00:17:43,080</time>
<s>他就是跟他们交朋友</s>
<time>554_00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:44,160</time>
<s>知人论世</s>
<time>555_00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:46,320</time>
<s>长时间地就跟你在一起了</s>
<time>556_00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:48,480</time>
<s>对其实我拍王安忆那张照片</s>
<time>557_00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:50,280</time>
<s>我就陪她去买菜</s>
<time>558_00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:51,000</time>
<s>在静安寺</s>
<time>559_00:17:51,360 --> 00:17:53,160</time>
<s>她让我跟她去买菜</s>
<time>560_00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:54,600</time>
<s>刚进门见到她</s>
<time>561_00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:57,840</time>
<s>肖全你不要去骗那些小女孩儿</s>
<time>562_00:17:58,200 --> 00:17:58,560</time>
<s>和你结婚</s>
<time>563_00:17:59,280 --> 00:17:59,640</time>
<s>什么</s>
<time>564_00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:02,520</time>
<s>你不要去骗那些小女孩儿和你结婚</s>
<time>565_00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:03,960</time>
<s>为什么这么说呢</s>
<time>566_00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:05,040</time>
<s>她就觉得</s>
<time>567_00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:06,840</time>
<s>她已经看到他有骗的动向了</s>
<time>568_00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:07,920</time>
<s>不就类似于</s>
<time>569_00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:10,080</time>
<s>就她没有把你当成一个</s>
<time>570_00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:12,960</time>
<s>就是你是一个记者</s>
<time>571_00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:14,400</time>
<s>你是一个到这儿来</s>
<time>572_00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:16,560</time>
<s>她要摆姿势给你拍照片的</s>
<time>573_00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:17,280</time>
<s>那么一个人</s>
<time>574_00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:18,360</time>
<s>你像我跟张艺谋</s>
<time>575_00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:20,160</time>
<s>拍《摇啊摇，摇到外婆桥》</s>
<time>576_00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:21,240</time>
<s>朝夕相处半年</s>
<time>577_00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:23,400</time>
<s>拍张照片混半年</s>
<time>578_00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:24,120</time>
<s>对啊</s>
<time>579_00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:25,200</time>
<s>真是能混</s>
<time>580_00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:28,080</time>
<s>多和少</s>
<time>581_00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:30,240</time>
<s>有的时候你为了拍到一张照片</s>
<time>582_00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:31,320</time>
<s>你可能要等</s>
<time>583_00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:32,400</time>
<s>等很久</s>
<time>584_00:18:33,120 --> 00:18:34,920</time>
<s>极简实际上是极复杂</s>
<time>585_00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:38,520</time>
<s>你真正能够出来一个</s>
<time>586_00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:39,600</time>
<s>少即多</s>
<time>587_00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:43,560</time>
<s>他的信条</s>
<time>588_00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:45,720</time>
<s>因为他是学的禅宗</s>
<time>589_00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:47,520</time>
<s>他在他家里面坐着</s>
<time>590_00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:49,680</time>
<s>就是他觉得那个沙发</s>
<time>591_00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:50,760</time>
<s>长得不好看</s>
<time>592_00:18:51,120 --> 00:18:51,480</time>
<s>他就没要了</s>
<time>593_00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:52,920</time>
<s>他坐在一个垫子上</s>
<time>594_00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:55,440</time>
<s>然后地板上放了一个台灯</s>
<time>595_00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:56,880</time>
<s>我有他这张照片</s>
<time>596_00:18:57,240 --> 00:18:59,760</time>
<s>他就信奉少即是多</s>
<time>597_00:19:00,120 --> 00:19:00,840</time>
<s>我在想为什么</s>
<time>598_00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:01,560</time>
<s>真的是</s>
<time>599_00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:02,640</time>
<s>可能是不是因为那个少</s>
<time>600_00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:03,720</time>
<s>代表了某种准确</s>
<time>601_00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:06,600</time>
<s>就是你找到了那个东西</s>
<time>602_00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:07,680</time>
<s>他最本质的那个东西</s>
<time>603_00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:08,760</time>
<s>就不需要其他的了</s>
<time>604_00:19:09,120 --> 00:19:10,560</time>
<s>比如说你像</s>
<time>605_00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:11,640</time>
<s>对你看这个是姜文吧</s>
<time>606_00:19:12,360 --> 00:19:13,080</time>
<s>这个照片</s>
<time>607_00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:14,160</time>
<s>你看他的这个样子</s>
<time>608_00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:14,880</time>
<s>然后我能想象</s>
<time>609_00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:17,760</time>
<s>现在他在杂志封面上的照片</s>
<time>610_00:19:18,120 --> 00:19:18,480</time>
<s>也见过</s>
<time>611_00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:20,280</time>
<s>但是这个照片我觉得就是</s>
<time>612_00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:21,000</time>
<s>圆桌派</s>
<time>613_00:19:21,360 --> 00:19:22,800</time>
<s>好像没有任何的伪装</s>
<time>614_00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:24,600</time>
<s>没有任何过多的东西</s>
<time>615_00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:26,040</time>
<s>那时候他刚刚拍完他的处女作</s>
<time>616_00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:27,120</time>
<s>就是《阳光灿烂的日子》</s>
<time>617_00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:28,920</time>
<s>在他工作室的楼顶上</s>
<time>618_00:19:30,360 --> 00:19:31,080</time>
<s>这张照片</s>
<time>619_00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:32,520</time>
<s>我们老话说这个</s>
<time>620_00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:35,760</time>
<s>要淡但是要浓厚之淡</s>
<time>621_00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:38,640</time>
<s>要朴但是要</s>
<time>622_00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:41,520</time>
<s>这句话该怎么说</s>
<time>623_00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:44,760</time>
<s>意思是很繁复以后的朴素</s>
<time>624_00:19:45,120 --> 00:19:47,640</time>
<s>那这样的才是艺术品</s>
<time>625_00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:50,160</time>
<s>_这个阿城很多时候他讲一个东西</s>
<time>626_00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:52,680</time>
<s>“你把一个东西讲得很高深</s>
<time>627_00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:54,120</time>
<s>这是一种本事对吧</s>
<time>628_00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:55,920</time>
<s>但是你把很高深的东西</s>
<time>629_00:19:57,000 --> 00:19:59,880</time>
<s>讲得一听让你眼前一亮</s>
<time>630_00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:00,960</time>
<s>这更是本事</s>
<time>631_00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:02,760</time>
<s>你看他就讲</s>
<time>632_00:20:03,120 --> 00:20:04,200</time>
<s>我们都往往没有想到一个问题</s>
<time>633_00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:05,280</time>
<s>就是像极简的</s>
<time>634_00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:07,080</time>
<s>就是包豪斯</s>
<time>635_00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:10,320</time>
<s>很多人是包豪斯的信徒是吧</s>
<time>636_00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:11,040</time>
<s>就觉得这是</s>
<time>637_00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:12,120</time>
<s>功能主义</s>
<time>638_00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:13,200</time>
<s>这个线条</s>
<time>639_00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:14,640</time>
<s>他就说</s>
<time>640_00:20:15,360 --> 00:20:17,160</time>
<s>其实他给你一个新的维度</s>
<time>641_00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:18,240</time>
<s>去考虑这个问题</s>
<time>642_00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:20,040</time>
<s>就是工业革命之后</s>
<time>643_00:20:21,120 --> 00:20:23,640</time>
<s>他说实际上是便宜</s>
<time>644_00:20:24,360 --> 00:20:26,160</time>
<s>你觉得开始你追求</s>
<time>645_00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:27,960</time>
<s>咱们觉得这个极简</s>
<time>646_00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:29,040</time>
<s>是好像非常高的</s>
<time>647_00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:30,840</time>
<s>但是你要看到它这个背景</s>
<time>648_00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:31,920</time>
<s>你比如说他提到</s>
<time>649_00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:34,800</time>
<s>当年这个第一次世界大战</s>
<time>650_00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:36,600</time>
<s>德国是战败国</s>
<time>651_00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:38,040</time>
<s>战败国要赔</s>
<time>652_00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:39,120</time>
<s>赔得就很惨</s>
<time>653_00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:42,000</time>
<s>首先这经济上就穷</s>
<time>654_00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:43,800</time>
<s>然后再有一个</s>
<time>655_00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:47,040</time>
<s>这个极简的线条</s>
<time>656_00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:47,760</time>
<s>意味着什么呢</s>
<time>657_00:20:48,120 --> 00:20:48,840</time>
<s>工业型材</s>
<time>658_00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:51,720</time>
<s>那个时候有了第一次工业革命</s>
<time>659_00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:52,800</time>
<s>蒸汽机</s>
<time>660_00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:53,880</time>
<s>所谓蒸汽机的发明</s>
<time>661_00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:54,960</time>
<s>咔就是一下</s>
<time>662_00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:58,200</time>
<s>一下轧出一个东西来</s>
<time>663_00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:00,720</time>
<s>这东西可以生产一千件</s>
<time>664_00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:03,240</time>
<s>有些风格上面很多雕饰</s>
<time>665_00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:03,960</time>
<s>很多什么</s>
<time>666_00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:05,040</time>
<s>像什公巴洛克风格圆桌派</s>
<time>667_00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:05,760</time>
<s>洛奇可风格圆桌派</s>
<time>668_00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:07,200</time>
<s>你想一个那个建筑</s>
<time>669_00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:08,640</time>
<s>成本</s>
<time>670_00:21:09,360 --> 00:21:10,080</time>
<s>造价</s>
<time>671_00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:11,880</time>
<s>那可是不可想象的对吗</s>
<time>672_00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:12,960</time>
<s>第一次工业革命之后</s>
<time>673_00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:15,120</time>
<s>它有很多这个原因</s>
<time>674_00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:18,000</time>
<s>本身就造成了一个</s>
<time>675_00:21:18,360 --> 00:21:19,080</time>
<s>比如说一个楼</s>
<time>676_00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:20,880</time>
<s>像它（包豪斯）那样的方方正正的一个</s>
<time>677_00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:21,960</time>
<s>叫作什么呢</s>
<time>678_00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:23,040</time>
<s>“正方形万岁”嘛</s>
<time>679_00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:25,560</time>
<s>那一个那样的形状</s>
<time>680_00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:27,720</time>
<s>我们现在研究起来老是觉得</s>
<time>681_00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:28,800</time>
<s>这个东西深刻</s>
<time>682_00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:29,880</time>
<s>这个东西什么</s>
<time>683_00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:32,760</time>
<s>当然有但是从另一方面来说</s>
<time>684_00:21:33,120 --> 00:21:34,920</time>
<s>就是一切也是很自然的</s>
<time>685_00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:36,720</time>
<s>这个演变</s>
<time>686_00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:38,880</time>
<s>你看它就出现了这么一种美学</s>
<time>687_00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:41,040</time>
<s>这种美学本身就意味着</s>
<time>688_00:21:42,120 --> 00:21:42,840</time>
<s>可以大量复制</s>
<time>689_00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:46,800</time>
<s>可以就是工业型材一次成型</s>
<time>690_00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:47,880</time>
<s>你像这个建筑</s>
<time>691_00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:50,040</time>
<s>咱们就说它咔这就构成</s>
<time>692_00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:52,920</time>
<s>所以你看它这个极简</s>
<time>693_00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:55,800</time>
<s>也可能背后它有这么一个因素</s>
<time>694_00:21:56,520 --> 00:21:57,960</time>
<s>可能就经历过极复杂的过程</s>
<time>695_00:21:59,040 --> 00:21:59,760</time>
<s>就像我们现在一样</s>
<time>696_00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:01,200</time>
<s>出现了这些</s>
<time>697_00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:03,720</time>
<s>极其容易满足的东西以后</s>
<time>698_00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:05,520</time>
<s>大家开始回到说</s>
<time>699_00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:07,320</time>
<s>能不能有另外的生活方式</s>
<time>700_00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:08,400</time>
<s>真的肖老师</s>
<time>701_00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:09,840</time>
<s>你觉得现在</s>
<time>702_00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:11,280</time>
<s>比如说你的生活状态</s>
<time>703_00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:14,160</time>
<s>或者你观察的你的摄影对象</s>
<time>704_00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:15,240</time>
<s>生活状态</s>
<time>705_00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:17,400</time>
<s>和八十年代九十年代时候</s>
<time>706_00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:18,480</time>
<s>这个生活状态</s>
<time>707_00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:21,000</time>
<s>真的你刚刚说的</s>
<time>708_00:22:21,360 --> 00:22:22,080</time>
<s>就是一个忙字</s>
<time>709_00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:23,520</time>
<s>刚才讲到那个手机</s>
<time>710_00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:25,320</time>
<s>朋友圈里面</s>
<time>711_00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:26,400</time>
<s>我可以十天不看朋友圈</s>
<time>712_00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:27,840</time>
<s>但是后来我就觉得</s>
<time>713_00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:29,280</time>
<s>我人挺不厚道的</s>
<time>714_00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:30,000</time>
<s>为什么</s>
<time>715_00:22:30,360 --> 00:22:31,440</time>
<s>就是我发一个朋友圈</s>
<time>716_00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:33,960</time>
<s>有这么多人来看评论什么的</s>
<time>717_00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:35,400</time>
<s>但是我又不看人家的</s>
<time>718_00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:36,480</time>
<s>一所以我觉得</s>
<time>719_00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:38,280</time>
<s>如果你要天天看的话</s>
<time>720_00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:40,440</time>
<s>你真的没有那么多时间</s>
<time>721_00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:41,520</time>
<s>凡尔赛</s>
<time>722_00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:47,640</time>
<s>你现在再拍他们</s>
<time>723_00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:48,360</time>
<s>能拍得一样吗</s>
<time>724_00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:49,440</time>
<s>或者说你觉得他们的</s>
<time>725_00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:51,600</time>
<s>就是精神面貌变化大吗</s>
<time>726_00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:53,760</time>
<s>其实不见得每个人都能遇到</s>
<time>727_00:22:54,120 --> 00:22:55,560</time>
<s>但是你比如说姜文</s>
<time>728_00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:58,800</time>
<s>我前年在桂林</s>
<time>729_00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:03,840</time>
<s>他还是特别地有激情</s>
<time>730_00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:06,720</time>
<s>去讲他想要接下来</s>
<time>731_00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:08,880</time>
<s>他想拍的什么东西</s>
<time>732_00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:09,960</time>
<s>他对电影的理解</s>
<time>733_00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:10,680</time>
<s>对生活的理解</s>
<time>734_00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:12,840</time>
<s>我觉得他写字</s>
<time>735_00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:15,000</time>
<s>他喜欢写毛笔（字）什么的</s>
<time>736_00:23:15,360 --> 00:23:16,080</time>
<s>后来我就发现</s>
<time>737_00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:17,880</time>
<s>其实当这帮人</s>
<time>738_00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:21,120</time>
<s>不再像过去那么年轻的时候</s>
<time>739_00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:22,920</time>
<s>但是很多人有些东西</s>
<time>740_00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:25,080</time>
<s>他们一直是守着的</s>
<time>741_00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:26,160</time>
<s>比如说那个</s>
<time>742_00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:29,040</time>
<s>跟电影评论有关的那个戴锦华</s>
<time>743_00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:31,200</time>
<s>我很久以前</s>
<time>744_00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:33,000</time>
<s>在那个北京电影学院</s>
<time>745_00:23:33,360 --> 00:23:35,160</time>
<s>拍了一张文学系的照片</s>
<time>746_00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:36,600</time>
<s>后来前些天</s>
<time>747_00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:37,680</time>
<s>我又到北大</s>
<time>748_00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:38,760</time>
<s>她回到北大了</s>
<time>749_00:23:39,120 --> 00:23:40,920</time>
<s>我觉得她越来越</s>
<time>750_00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:43,080</time>
<s>就是那个心越来越大了</s>
<time>751_00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:46,680</time>
<s>知识分子的那种体态</s>
<time>752_00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:48,480</time>
<s>相貌谈吐</s>
<time>753_00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:49,200</time>
<s>她胖了</s>
<time>754_00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:50,280</time>
<s>她走起路来</s>
<time>755_00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:52,800</time>
<s>也不像原来那么地轻巧</s>
<time>756_00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:53,880</time>
<s>但是你可以看到她</s>
<time>757_00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:55,680</time>
<s>她就是一个大的教授</s>
<time>758_00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:58,920</time>
<s>她关心很多很多妇女的问题</s>
<time>759_00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:00,000</time>
<s>电影的</s>
<time>760_00:24:00,360 --> 00:24:01,080</time>
<s>就是题材的</s>
<time>761_00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:03,240</time>
<s>尤其女性电影题材的问题</s>
<time>762_00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:04,680</time>
<s>气场更大了</s>
<time>763_00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:06,480</time>
<s>对非常地厉害</s>
<time>764_00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:08,280</time>
<s>我说拍你一个背影</s>
<time>765_00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:11,880</time>
<s>我就觉得她一直在用她的方式</s>
<time>766_00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:15,120</time>
<s>在跟某种势力（歧视女性）在做斗争</s>
<time>767_00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:15,840</time>
<s>做什么呢</s>
<time>768_00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:17,280</time>
<s>去帮助妇女</s>
<time>769_00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:19,080</time>
<s>电影里面的那些（观念的）树立</s>
<time>770_00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:20,160</time>
<s>我现在觉得</s>
<time>771_00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:23,040</time>
<s>这个心里要有本根</s>
<time>772_00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:24,480</time>
<s>要有根</s>
<time>773_00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:27,000</time>
<s>就是说你看有些人</s>
<time>774_00:24:27,360 --> 00:24:28,080</time>
<s>气场很强</s>
<time>775_00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:30,240</time>
<s>能量这个要有序性</s>
<time>776_00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:32,400</time>
<s>那天有一个老师跟我讲</s>
<time>777_00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:34,200</time>
<s>你看那个磁铁没有</s>
<time>778_00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:36,000</time>
<s>你看磁力线</s>
<time>779_00:24:36,360 --> 00:24:38,160</time>
<s>你把一堆铁钉子撒在这儿</s>
<time>780_00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:42,120</time>
<s>这个磁力线它是有序的</s>
<time>781_00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:45,360</time>
<s>就是说你这个能量要有序</s>
<time>782_00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:46,440</time>
<s>比如说哪怕是一个</s>
<time>783_00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:47,520</time>
<s>所谓保守的人士</s>
<time>784_00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:51,840</time>
<s>像咱们今天所说的不改初心</s>
<time>785_00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:55,440</time>
<s>我就咬定顽石不放松</s>
<time>786_00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:56,160</time>
<s>我守定一条</s>
<time>787_00:24:57,600 --> 00:24:58,320</time>
<s>我最后</s>
<time>788_00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:00,480</time>
<s>到最后我能做成一件事</s>
<time>789_00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:03,720</time>
<s>对吧可是从另一方面来讲</s>
<time>790_00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:05,520</time>
<s>什么叫方寸大乱呢</s>
<time>791_00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:08,400</time>
<s>就是如果你接收了很多东西</s>
<time>792_00:25:09,120 --> 00:25:09,480</time>
<s>确实每条道路</s>
<time>793_00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:12,000</time>
<s>似乎看上去都很有可能性</s>
<time>794_00:25:12,360 --> 00:25:13,080</time>
<s>但是这样的话</s>
<time>795_00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:17,040</time>
<s>你的这个气它就不能集中</s>
<time>796_00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:18,840</time>
<s>整天就是散乱的</s>
<time>797_00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:20,640</time>
<s>似乎每天你完成了很多事情</s>
<time>798_00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:21,720</time>
<s>应对了很多方面</s>
<time>799_00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:24,600</time>
<s>但是似乎也没见到什么</s>
<time>800_00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:28,200</time>
<s>可积累的一个可持续的</s>
<time>801_00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:29,280</time>
<s>一种进步</s>
<time>802_00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:30,360</time>
<s>专注</s>
<time>803_00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:31,080</time>
<s>就是专注</s>
<time>804_00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:32,160</time>
<s>专注极其重要</s>
<time>805_00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:33,240</time>
<s>那这代人</s>
<time>806_00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:36,120</time>
<s>就是前不久还有一个记者来问我</s>
<time>807_00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:39,000</time>
<s>特别是当代文学这一摊</s>
<time>808_00:25:39,360 --> 00:25:40,080</time>
<s>那么他问题就是说</s>
<time>809_00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:44,040</time>
<s>为什么莫言史铁生阿城</s>
<time>810_00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:45,120</time>
<s>这批作家</s>
<time>811_00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:48,000</time>
<s>到现在还被认为是</s>
<time>812_00:25:48,360 --> 00:25:50,880</time>
<s>当代文学非常主流的作家</s>
<time>813_00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:51,960</time>
<s>简单地说吧</s>
<time>814_00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:54,120</time>
<s>四十年都不过时</s>
<time>815_00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:55,920</time>
<s>这个在以前是没有的</s>
<time>816_00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:57,000</time>
<s>鲁迅那个时代</s>
<time>817_00:25:57,360 --> 00:25:59,160</time>
<s>也就是十几年二十年</s>
<time>818_00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:00,960</time>
<s>我的一个简单的概括就是说</s>
<time>819_00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:04,920</time>
<s>他们本身好像没有变</s>
<time>820_00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:07,800</time>
<s>但是他们跟社会的关系在变化</s>
<time>821_00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:12,120</time>
<s>他们从先锋变成守望者</s>
<time>822_00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:16,080</time>
<s>这个过去的四十年</s>
<time>823_00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:18,960</time>
<s>社会变化巨大科技变化</s>
<time>824_00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:21,120</time>
<s>国力变化读者变化</s>
<time>825_00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:24,720</time>
<s>整个文学的生态巨大变化</s>
<time>826_00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:26,160</time>
<s>穿越网络等等</s>
<time>827_00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:27,960</time>
<s>作家他们</s>
<time>828_00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:30,120</time>
<s>就像文涛说的</s>
<time>829_00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:33,000</time>
<s>他就认住他一个理对不对</s>
<time>830_00:26:33,360 --> 00:26:34,800</time>
<s>他就要写他这个东西</s>
<time>831_00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:36,240</time>
<s>那个莫言说</s>
<time>832_00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:39,840</time>
<s>他十二三岁饿肚子的那个感觉</s>
<time>833_00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:42,000</time>
<s>是他创作的动力</s>
<time>834_00:26:42,360 --> 00:26:44,520</time>
<s>所以你外界环境变了</s>
<time>835_00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:46,680</time>
<s>他们曾经在八十年代的时候</s>
<time>836_00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:49,200</time>
<s>《阳光灿烂的日子》的时候</s>
<time>837_00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:52,080</time>
<s>他们是社会思想解放的先锋</s>
<time>838_00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:55,320</time>
<s>现在他们是某种</s>
<time>839_00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:57,120</time>
<s>就是说文化</s>
<time>840_00:26:57,480 --> 00:26:57,840</time>
<s>怎么来说</s>
<time>841_00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:00,000</time>
<s>改革开放的守卫者</s>
<time>842_00:27:00,360 --> 00:27:03,960</time>
<s>所以为什么四十年（小说成就）不过时</s>
<time>843_00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:06,120</time>
<s>就是说其实有很大的变化</s>
<time>844_00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:09,000</time>
<s>有很多人是与时俱进</s>
<time>845_00:27:09,360 --> 00:27:11,520</time>
<s>但我觉得你拍的这批人</s>
<time>846_00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:13,320</time>
<s>不忘初心</s>
<time>847_00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:15,840</time>
<s>这说法有意思</s>
<time>848_00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:16,560</time>
<s>专注</s>
<time>849_00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:18,360</time>
<s>专注于一</s>
<time>850_00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:19,800</time>
<s>你就在家里看看那些石头（赏石）</s>
<time>851_00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:21,960</time>
<s>一你看那些石头</s>
<time>852_00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:23,760</time>
<s>一就是一种定力</s>
<time>853_00:27:24,120 --> 00:27:25,920</time>
<s>不是比如说我玩这个</s>
<time>854_00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:27,720</time>
<s>“刹手”的这个</s>
<time>855_00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:30,600</time>
<s>我上了几天的瘾</s>
<time>856_00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:31,680</time>
<s>我估计你像有的人</s>
<time>857_00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:33,480</time>
<s>那就是摆脱不了了</s>
<time>858_00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:34,560</time>
<s>因为你知道</s>
<time>859_00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:35,640</time>
<s>真的好便宜</s>
<time>860_00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:36,720</time>
<s>我就发现</s>
<time>861_00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:38,160</time>
<s>极容易满足</s>
<time>862_00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:39,600</time>
<s>这个网购</s>
<time>863_00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:42,480</time>
<s>现在这个五块钱的十块钱的</s>
<time>864_00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:44,280</time>
<s>这他都能给你寄来</s>
<time>865_00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:45,360</time>
<s>二十块钱的</s>
<time>866_00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:46,440</time>
<s>一一个小烟灰缸</s>
<time>867_00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:48,240</time>
<s>也可以拿来玩玩对吧</s>
<time>868_00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:51,480</time>
<s>就是说在很便宜的东西里</s>
<time>869_00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:52,560</time>
<s>也能淘到宝</s>
<time>870_00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:54,720</time>
<s>这就像是他们那个玩古董的</s>
<time>871_00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:55,440</time>
<s>捡漏嘛</s>
<time>872_00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:58,320</time>
<s>有的时候很便宜的一个东西</s>
<time>873_00:27:58,680 --> 00:27:59,760</time>
<s>也能选到好的</s>
<time>874_00:28:00,120 --> 00:28:01,560</time>
<s>只要你有审美有眼光</s>
