<time>1_00:00:38,534 --> 00:00:39,614</time>
<s>今天这柱香</s>
<time>2_00:00:39,974 --> 00:00:41,396</time>
<s>我要献给</s>
<time>3_00:00:41,756 --> 00:00:42,836</time>
<s>这个曾经为我们人民</s>
<time>4_00:00:43,196 --> 00:00:44,636</time>
<s>做出过很大贡献的</s>
<time>5_00:00:44,996 --> 00:00:46,436</time>
<s>我们那些个大记者们</s>
<time>6_00:00:46,796 --> 00:00:47,156</time>
<s>结果就点不着</s>
<time>7_00:00:49,676 --> 00:00:50,036</time>
<s>为什么</s>
<time>8_00:00:50,753 --> 00:00:52,913</time>
<s>魏一平老师</s>
<time>9_00:00:53,273 --> 00:00:55,073</time>
<s>就我是把他作为一个</s>
<time>10_00:00:55,433 --> 00:00:56,153</time>
<s>著名的记者</s>
<time>11_00:00:56,513 --> 00:00:59,393</time>
<s>写过很多重要的报道请来的</s>
<time>12_00:00:59,753 --> 00:01:00,822</time>
<s>但是正如这个香头儿</s>
<time>13_00:01:01,182 --> 00:01:01,902</time>
<s>都点不着一样</s>
<time>14_00:01:02,262 --> 00:01:03,342</time>
<s>来了我才知道</s>
<time>15_00:01:03,702 --> 00:01:04,782</time>
<s>他也已经不干记者了</s>
<time>16_00:01:05,142 --> 00:01:05,502</time>
<s>当逃兵了</s>
<time>17_00:01:05,862 --> 00:01:07,662</time>
<s>这是一件非常非常</s>
<time>18_00:01:08,022 --> 00:01:10,884</time>
<s>让人这个可惜的这个事情</s>
<time>19_00:01:11,244 --> 00:01:13,404</time>
<s>你说那些个深度调查记者</s>
<time>20_00:01:13,764 --> 00:01:15,924</time>
<s>纷纷地逃离了自己的专业战线</s>
<time>21_00:01:16,284 --> 00:01:18,444</time>
<s>我们这些网友就只能相信</s>
<time>22_00:01:18,804 --> 00:01:20,601</time>
<s>那些个自媒体报道的新闻了</s>
<time>23_00:01:20,961 --> 00:01:22,041</time>
<s>我觉得这是今天全世界</s>
<time>24_00:01:22,401 --> 00:01:24,561</time>
<s>很难办的一件事情</s>
<time>25_00:01:25,281 --> 00:01:26,001</time>
<s>是不是中国的调查记者</s>
<time>26_00:01:26,361 --> 00:01:27,441</time>
<s>只有一百多个</s>
<time>27_00:01:27,801 --> 00:01:31,030</time>
<s>对具体数字肯定没有那么严格</s>
<time>28_00:01:31,390 --> 00:01:32,470</time>
<s>但确实整体上</s>
<time>29_00:01:32,830 --> 00:01:34,270</time>
<s>大概比较黄金的一代</s>
<time>30_00:01:34,630 --> 00:01:35,710</time>
<s>就是从2000年初</s>
<time>31_00:01:36,070 --> 00:01:38,590</time>
<s>一直到2010年这10年这一代</s>
<time>32_00:01:38,950 --> 00:01:40,390</time>
<s>现在就基本上都离开了</s>
<time>33_00:01:40,731 --> 00:01:42,531</time>
<s>就所谓后真相时代</s>
<time>34_00:01:42,891 --> 00:01:43,971</time>
<s>这不光是中国的问题</s>
<time>35_00:01:44,331 --> 00:01:45,771</time>
<s>我看美国那个CBS</s>
<time>36_00:01:46,131 --> 00:01:46,491</time>
<s>那哥伦比亚（广播公司）那个</s>
<time>37_00:01:46,851 --> 00:01:47,211</time>
<s>就是原来你看</s>
<time>38_00:01:47,571 --> 00:01:49,371</time>
<s>最著名的叫《美国60分钟》</s>
<time>39_00:01:49,731 --> 00:01:51,528</time>
<s>就是训练有素的记者</s>
<time>40_00:01:51,888 --> 00:01:54,768</time>
<s>我们才知道怎么弄清真相对吧</s>
<time>41_00:01:55,128 --> 00:01:55,848</time>
<s>他不是一个随便</s>
<time>42_00:01:56,208 --> 00:01:57,648</time>
<s>没受过记者训练的人</s>
<time>43_00:01:58,008 --> 00:01:59,808</time>
<s>就知道真相是什么的对吧</s>
<time>44_00:02:00,168 --> 00:02:01,237</time>
<s>好连他们都说</s>
<time>45_00:02:02,677 --> 00:02:04,477</time>
<s>现在南非发生了个事儿</s>
<time>46_00:02:04,837 --> 00:02:07,717</time>
<s>我们一个摄制组过去调查</s>
<time>47_00:02:08,077 --> 00:02:08,797</time>
<s>这得多少钱哪</s>
<time>48_00:02:09,157 --> 00:02:11,298</time>
<s>可是现在微博早把那消息</s>
<time>49_00:02:11,658 --> 00:02:12,378</time>
<s>都发出来了</s>
<time>50_00:02:12,738 --> 00:02:14,898</time>
<s>不过我倒最近一年左右</s>
<time>51_00:02:15,258 --> 00:02:16,698</time>
<s>可能会发现又有一点儿回升</s>
<time>52_00:02:17,778 --> 00:02:18,138</time>
<s>就是又有一点儿</s>
<time>53_00:02:18,498 --> 00:02:19,578</time>
<s>这种自媒体里边</s>
<time>54_00:02:19,938 --> 00:02:21,374</time>
<s>就是原先那种完全靠态度</s>
<time>55_00:02:21,734 --> 00:02:22,094</time>
<s>完全靠表态</s>
<time>56_00:02:22,454 --> 00:02:24,254</time>
<s>完全靠吸引眼球那个风</s>
<time>57_00:02:24,614 --> 00:02:25,694</time>
<s>略微又杀了一些</s>
<time>58_00:02:26,054 --> 00:02:27,494</time>
<s>又开始有一些深度的</s>
<time>59_00:02:27,854 --> 00:02:30,374</time>
<s>原创的这个自媒体的微信号</s>
<time>60_00:02:30,734 --> 00:02:31,083</time>
<s>开始又出来了</s>
<time>61_00:02:31,443 --> 00:02:32,523</time>
<s>就是说年轻一代可能</s>
<time>62_00:02:32,883 --> 00:02:34,683</time>
<s>比如说90后95后</s>
<time>63_00:02:35,043 --> 00:02:36,843</time>
<s>还是有一批至少有这个志向</s>
<time>64_00:02:37,203 --> 00:02:38,643</time>
<s>想去探寻事实的</s>
<time>65_00:02:39,003 --> 00:02:40,443</time>
<s>这是乐观的消息</s>
<time>66_00:02:40,803 --> 00:02:42,224</time>
<s>但是这个影响力会非常低</s>
<time>67_00:02:42,584 --> 00:02:42,944</time>
<s>这个很低了</s>
<time>68_00:02:43,304 --> 00:02:44,384</time>
<s>因为它不是机构化了</s>
<time>69_00:02:44,744 --> 00:02:45,824</time>
<s>它不是这种大的媒体机构</s>
<time>70_00:02:46,184 --> 00:02:48,344</time>
<s>所以呢它在它当时这种大媒体</s>
<time>71_00:02:48,704 --> 00:02:50,144</time>
<s>它是有两个</s>
<time>72_00:02:50,504 --> 00:02:51,580</time>
<s>一个是叫责任</s>
<time>73_00:02:51,940 --> 00:02:53,020</time>
<s>这个责任除了媒体的责任</s>
<time>74_00:02:53,380 --> 00:02:54,100</time>
<s>还有他个人的责任</s>
<time>75_00:02:54,460 --> 00:02:56,620</time>
<s>过去所有当这种一线记者的</s>
<time>76_00:02:56,980 --> 00:02:57,700</time>
<s>都是有理想的</s>
<time>77_00:02:58,060 --> 00:02:59,140</time>
<s>理想就是一个责任</s>
<time>78_00:02:59,500 --> 00:03:00,220</time>
<s>然后其次呢</s>
<time>79_00:03:00,580 --> 00:03:01,649</time>
<s>是它有一个技巧</s>
<time>80_00:03:02,009 --> 00:03:03,809</time>
<s>这个技巧是包括资金支持的</s>
<time>81_00:03:04,169 --> 00:03:06,329</time>
<s>因为我年轻的时候是</s>
<time>82_00:03:06,689 --> 00:03:07,049</time>
<s>我当然我也干过</s>
<time>83_00:03:07,409 --> 00:03:07,769</time>
<s>您是前辈</s>
<time>84_00:03:08,129 --> 00:03:08,489</time>
<s>一阵子记者</s>
<time>85_00:03:08,849 --> 00:03:09,569</time>
<s>但是我没干过这种</s>
<time>86_00:03:09,929 --> 00:03:11,350</time>
<s>就是调查事实真相</s>
<time>87_00:03:11,710 --> 00:03:13,510</time>
<s>我们只不过无非调查点文学</s>
<time>88_00:03:13,870 --> 00:03:14,590</time>
<s>尤其女青年</s>
<time>89_00:03:16,390 --> 00:03:16,750</time>
<s>文学女青年的真相</s>
<time>90_00:03:18,190 --> 00:03:19,630</time>
<s>它也是要花精力的</s>
<time>91_00:03:19,990 --> 00:03:20,350</time>
<s>对当然</s>
<time>92_00:03:20,710 --> 00:03:21,786</time>
<s>很花精力</s>
<time>93_00:03:22,146 --> 00:03:22,506</time>
<s>很花精力对吧</s>
<time>94_00:03:22,866 --> 00:03:24,666</time>
<s>你跟这个人打交道</s>
<time>95_00:03:25,026 --> 00:03:26,826</time>
<s>是最困难的一件事儿</s>
<time>96_00:03:27,186 --> 00:03:28,986</time>
<s>因为尤其像他们调查</s>
<time>97_00:03:29,346 --> 00:03:30,066</time>
<s>要调查负面的时候</s>
<time>98_00:03:30,426 --> 00:03:31,854</time>
<s>所有人都有一层壳</s>
<time>99_00:03:32,214 --> 00:03:33,294</time>
<s>你怎么穿透这层壳</s>
<time>100_00:03:33,654 --> 00:03:34,734</time>
<s>所以今天这个事儿</s>
<time>101_00:03:35,094 --> 00:03:36,534</time>
<s>我觉得个人靠自媒体做不起来</s>
<time>102_00:03:36,894 --> 00:03:37,614</time>
<s>没错马爷说得特别对</s>
<time>103_00:03:37,974 --> 00:03:38,694</time>
<s>机构化保障特别重要</s>
<time>104_00:03:39,054 --> 00:03:40,134</time>
<s>所以现在这么个时候</s>
<time>105_00:03:40,494 --> 00:03:42,275</time>
<s>你要想做到不受人骗</s>
<time>106_00:03:42,635 --> 00:03:43,715</time>
<s>不受人忽悠</s>
<time>107_00:03:44,075 --> 00:03:46,595</time>
<s>那就得我觉得需要全民提高</s>
<time>108_00:03:46,955 --> 00:03:48,395</time>
<s>探求真相的基本修养</s>
<time>109_00:03:48,755 --> 00:03:50,915</time>
<s>你比如说就像我们学新闻的</s>
<time>110_00:03:51,275 --> 00:03:52,351</time>
<s>那到照今天</s>
<time>111_00:03:52,711 --> 00:03:53,431</time>
<s>你在网上看到的</s>
<time>112_00:03:53,791 --> 00:03:54,151</time>
<s>百分之百的</s>
<time>113_00:03:54,511 --> 00:03:55,591</time>
<s>我都不会认为是真的对吧</s>
<time>114_00:03:55,951 --> 00:03:56,671</time>
<s>这很简单</s>
<time>115_00:03:57,031 --> 00:03:58,831</time>
<s>听谁说的哪儿登的</s>
<time>116_00:03:59,191 --> 00:03:59,911</time>
<s>第一个消息源是谁</s>
<time>117_00:04:00,271 --> 00:04:01,699</time>
<s>第一手材料在哪里</s>
<time>118_00:04:02,059 --> 00:04:02,419</time>
<s>证据是什么</s>
<time>119_00:04:02,779 --> 00:04:03,499</time>
<s>但是你发现没有</s>
<time>120_00:04:03,859 --> 00:04:06,739</time>
<s>平常解闷儿的人不关心这个</s>
<time>121_00:04:07,099 --> 00:04:08,179</time>
<s>说蒋方舟有八个男朋友</s>
<time>122_00:04:09,259 --> 00:04:09,979</time>
<s>就开始了</s>
<time>123_00:04:10,699 --> 00:04:11,059</time>
<s>关心这个</s>
<time>124_00:04:11,419 --> 00:04:13,200</time>
<s>他是故意地不想知道真相吗</s>
<time>125_00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:14,280</time>
<s>对我觉得还有一点</s>
<time>126_00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:16,800</time>
<s>就是现在人们好像很期待反转</s>
<time>127_00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:18,960</time>
<s>这本身我觉得是对真相的</s>
<time>128_00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:19,680</time>
<s>一种逆反心理</s>
<time>129_00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:21,120</time>
<s>就是它出了一个事儿</s>
<time>130_00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:22,195</time>
<s>他的心态就是说</s>
<time>131_00:04:22,555 --> 00:04:24,715</time>
<s>我相信这个事情最后会反转的</s>
<time>132_00:04:25,075 --> 00:04:26,155</time>
<s>你最后对整个事情的关注</s>
<time>133_00:04:26,515 --> 00:04:27,955</time>
<s>就已经不是一个非常</s>
<time>134_00:04:28,315 --> 00:04:29,395</time>
<s>理性的一个态度</s>
<time>135_00:04:29,755 --> 00:04:31,195</time>
<s>和你真的希望得到关注</s>
<time>136_00:04:31,555 --> 00:04:32,983</time>
<s>最后就变成两拨人吵架</s>
<time>137_00:04:33,343 --> 00:04:34,423</time>
<s>相互你看这个事实又出来</s>
<time>138_00:04:35,143 --> 00:04:35,863</time>
<s>又打你的脸了</s>
<time>139_00:04:36,223 --> 00:04:37,303</time>
<s>所以我觉得好像大家</s>
<time>140_00:04:37,663 --> 00:04:38,743</time>
<s>对于真相本身</s>
<time>141_00:04:39,103 --> 00:04:40,543</time>
<s>变得没有那么关心了</s>
<time>142_00:04:40,903 --> 00:04:41,623</time>
<s>所以这叫后真相时代</s>
<time>143_00:04:42,324 --> 00:04:44,844</time>
<s>他现在是开始关心另外一种真相</s>
<time>144_00:04:45,204 --> 00:04:47,004</time>
<s>你比如说我底下人就提醒我</s>
<time>145_00:04:47,364 --> 00:04:48,084</time>
<s>说现在发生什么事儿</s>
<time>146_00:04:48,444 --> 00:04:48,804</time>
<s>你都不能表态</s>
<time>147_00:04:49,164 --> 00:04:49,524</time>
<s>我说为什么</s>
<time>148_00:04:49,884 --> 00:04:52,039</time>
<s>他说不翻转三次以后都不能表态</s>
<time>149_00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:54,919</time>
<s>他觉得这个事儿不翻转</s>
<time>150_00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:56,359</time>
<s>根本就不是这个事情</s>
<time>151_00:04:56,719 --> 00:04:57,439</time>
<s>对</s>
<time>152_00:04:57,799 --> 00:04:58,159</time>
<s>我就会</s>
<time>153_00:04:58,519 --> 00:04:59,239</time>
<s>现在我有时候看个事儿我也</s>
<time>154_00:04:59,599 --> 00:05:01,399</time>
<s>我提示他们</s>
<time>155_00:05:01,759 --> 00:05:03,187</time>
<s>我说现在所有的真相</s>
<time>156_00:05:03,547 --> 00:05:05,707</time>
<s>一定来自于世界级的大媒体</s>
<time>157_00:05:06,067 --> 00:05:07,147</time>
<s>如果你不在这上面看到的</s>
<time>158_00:05:07,507 --> 00:05:08,587</time>
<s>都可能是假象</s>
<time>159_00:05:08,947 --> 00:05:09,307</time>
<s>雾里看花</s>
<time>160_00:05:09,667 --> 00:05:11,467</time>
<s>等反转是因为大家缺乏耐心了吗</s>
<time>161_00:05:11,827 --> 00:05:12,527</time>
<s>是因为一出一个事儿</s>
<time>162_00:05:12,887 --> 00:05:14,327</time>
<s>然后就立刻一波跟进</s>
<time>163_00:05:14,687 --> 00:05:15,767</time>
<s>然后就立刻表态</s>
<time>164_00:05:16,127 --> 00:05:16,487</time>
<s>是因为这样吗</s>
<time>165_00:05:16,847 --> 00:05:19,007</time>
<s>这个是社交媒体最大的优势</s>
<time>166_00:05:19,367 --> 00:05:20,087</time>
<s>就是快</s>
<time>167_00:05:20,447 --> 00:05:21,167</time>
<s>人人自媒体</s>
<time>168_00:05:21,527 --> 00:05:22,243</time>
<s>一个事儿出来以后</s>
<time>169_00:05:22,603 --> 00:05:23,683</time>
<s>先用一个最短的微博</s>
<time>170_00:05:24,043 --> 00:05:25,123</time>
<s>可能一个小时之内就出来了</s>
<time>171_00:05:25,483 --> 00:05:27,643</time>
<s>半天之内微信的观点性的文章</s>
<time>172_00:05:28,003 --> 00:05:29,443</time>
<s>态度性的文章就出来了</s>
<time>173_00:05:29,803 --> 00:05:30,523</time>
<s>喔唯先表态</s>
<time>174_00:05:30,883 --> 00:05:32,670</time>
<s>热点的这个整个演化</s>
<time>175_00:05:33,030 --> 00:05:33,750</time>
<s>它就变成了</s>
<time>176_00:05:34,110 --> 00:05:36,270</time>
<s>比如说可能放到五到十年之前</s>
<time>177_00:05:36,630 --> 00:05:37,710</time>
<s>第一波出来的是</s>
<time>178_00:05:38,070 --> 00:05:38,790</time>
<s>应该是都市媒体</s>
<time>179_00:05:39,150 --> 00:05:39,870</time>
<s>就是这个都市报</s>
<time>180_00:05:42,030 --> 00:05:42,730</time>
<s>那就是当天的</s>
<time>181_00:05:43,090 --> 00:05:43,450</time>
<s>它日报嘛</s>
<time>182_00:05:44,170 --> 00:05:45,250</time>
<s>但至少它是经过训练的</s>
<time>183_00:05:45,610 --> 00:05:47,770</time>
<s>有机构保障的严肃的新闻媒体</s>
<time>184_00:05:48,130 --> 00:05:48,850</time>
<s>它至少当天出来</s>
<time>185_00:05:49,210 --> 00:05:50,650</time>
<s>我知道多少我就能放出多少来</s>
<time>186_00:05:51,010 --> 00:05:53,166</time>
<s>我也不用去这个讲态度</s>
<time>187_00:05:53,526 --> 00:05:54,606</time>
<s>讲得天花乱坠的之类的</s>
<time>188_00:05:54,966 --> 00:05:57,126</time>
<s>然后可能一周以后两周以后</s>
<time>189_00:05:57,486 --> 00:05:59,286</time>
<s>就像我们这个《三联生活周刊》</s>
<time>190_00:05:59,646 --> 00:06:00,366</time>
<s>这个《南方周末》</s>
<time>191_00:06:00,726 --> 00:06:02,513</time>
<s>就是这种周刊周报类的</s>
<time>192_00:06:02,873 --> 00:06:04,673</time>
<s>就开始出来更深度的全面的解读</s>
<time>193_00:06:05,753 --> 00:06:06,833</time>
<s>现在是这个权威媒体</s>
<time>194_00:06:07,193 --> 00:06:08,633</time>
<s>都转载微博的消息</s>
<time>195_00:06:09,713 --> 00:06:10,073</time>
<s>是</s>
<time>196_00:06:10,433 --> 00:06:11,513</time>
<s>现在都是按小时按半天</s>
<time>197_00:06:11,873 --> 00:06:14,013</time>
<s>对所以在这个时候我就想</s>
<time>198_00:06:14,373 --> 00:06:15,093</time>
<s>他们这样的人</s>
<time>199_00:06:15,453 --> 00:06:16,893</time>
<s>至少你之前从事的工作</s>
<time>200_00:06:17,253 --> 00:06:18,333</time>
<s>想起来值得尊敬</s>
<time>201_00:06:18,693 --> 00:06:20,853</time>
<s>这些年中国社会很多进步</s>
<time>202_00:06:21,213 --> 00:06:22,293</time>
<s>你看人们都很健忘啊</s>
<time>203_00:06:22,648 --> 00:06:23,008</time>
<s>对是</s>
<time>204_00:06:23,368 --> 00:06:24,088</time>
<s>当年你比如说咱们重视</s>
<time>205_00:06:24,448 --> 00:06:26,248</time>
<s>这个矿难问题对吧</s>
<time>206_00:06:26,608 --> 00:06:28,408</time>
<s>包括这个什么假疫苗问题</s>
<time>207_00:06:29,128 --> 00:06:29,848</time>
<s>你知道这都是靠这样的记者</s>
<time>208_00:06:30,208 --> 00:06:32,715</time>
<s>他就是去查究真相</s>
<time>209_00:06:33,075 --> 00:06:34,155</time>
<s>而且舍生入死</s>
<time>210_00:06:34,515 --> 00:06:35,235</time>
<s>这种事儿特难的</s>
<time>211_00:06:35,595 --> 00:06:36,315</time>
<s>真是不得了</s>
<time>212_00:06:36,675 --> 00:06:38,115</time>
<s>你像他我为什么本来说一什么</s>
<time>213_00:06:38,475 --> 00:06:38,835</time>
<s>挺有意思</s>
<time>214_00:06:39,195 --> 00:06:39,915</time>
<s>最近热播一电视剧</s>
<time>215_00:06:40,275 --> 00:06:41,715</time>
<s>叫《破冰行动》</s>
<time>216_00:06:42,075 --> 00:06:45,295</time>
<s>就是那个讲的原型就是博社村</s>
<time>217_00:06:45,655 --> 00:06:46,735</time>
<s>当年我了解这件事儿</s>
<time>218_00:06:47,095 --> 00:06:50,335</time>
<s>就是通过魏一平老师的这种报道</s>
<time>219_00:06:50,695 --> 00:06:52,135</time>
<s>你就跑到那村去了</s>
<time>220_00:06:53,209 --> 00:06:56,449</time>
<s>那个博社是广东陆丰下边的一个村</s>
<time>221_00:06:56,809 --> 00:06:58,609</time>
<s>陆丰你知道就是那个汕头汕尾</s>
<time>222_00:06:58,969 --> 00:07:00,049</time>
<s>就指的是那一片儿的</s>
<time>223_00:07:00,409 --> 00:07:02,209</time>
<s>有一个村说是叫制毒村</s>
<time>224_00:07:02,569 --> 00:07:04,717</time>
<s>我一看确实就是有一个很短的新闻</s>
<time>225_00:07:05,077 --> 00:07:06,517</time>
<s>就是说广东警方组织专案</s>
<time>226_00:07:06,877 --> 00:07:08,677</time>
<s>把这个村给端了</s>
<time>227_00:07:09,037 --> 00:07:10,117</time>
<s>抓了这个几百人</s>
<time>228_00:07:10,477 --> 00:07:11,557</time>
<s>完了以后捣毁了多少</s>
<time>229_00:07:11,917 --> 00:07:12,637</time>
<s>几吨冰毒</s>
<time>230_00:07:14,056 --> 00:07:15,496</time>
<s>然后我就去了</s>
<time>231_00:07:15,856 --> 00:07:16,936</time>
<s>那个时候正好是腊月</s>
<time>232_00:07:17,296 --> 00:07:19,456</time>
<s>正好我就第一次去博社村</s>
<time>233_00:07:19,816 --> 00:07:20,896</time>
<s>待了一周基本上一无所获</s>
<time>234_00:07:22,336 --> 00:07:23,051</time>
<s>你采访人了吗</s>
<time>235_00:07:23,411 --> 00:07:24,491</time>
<s>基本上没有采访到</s>
<time>236_00:07:24,851 --> 00:07:25,571</time>
<s>就是这个正经的</s>
<time>237_00:07:25,931 --> 00:07:26,291</time>
<s>重要的人</s>
<time>238_00:07:26,651 --> 00:07:27,371</time>
<s>基本上没有</s>
<time>239_00:07:27,731 --> 00:07:29,171</time>
<s>特别丧</s>
<time>240_00:07:29,531 --> 00:07:31,331</time>
<s>然后因为那个时候</s>
<time>241_00:07:31,691 --> 00:07:33,478</time>
<s>刚刚是这个扫毒行动结束了</s>
<time>242_00:07:33,838 --> 00:07:35,638</time>
<s>还也就是一个星期吧</s>
<time>243_00:07:35,998 --> 00:07:37,078</time>
<s>那个村里还驻扎着很多</s>
<time>244_00:07:37,438 --> 00:07:38,518</time>
<s>专案组的警察</s>
<time>245_00:07:38,878 --> 00:07:41,398</time>
<s>还在继续谈话继续清查</s>
<time>246_00:07:42,838 --> 00:07:45,337</time>
<s>所以就是风声鹤喉的整个村里</s>
<time>247_00:07:45,697 --> 00:07:46,777</time>
<s>但这个还不是最主要的</s>
<time>248_00:07:47,137 --> 00:07:48,577</time>
<s>我们也去做过很多其他的报道</s>
<time>249_00:07:48,937 --> 00:07:50,377</time>
<s>在案件结束第二天去</s>
<time>250_00:07:50,737 --> 00:07:52,537</time>
<s>还是能够做一些采访的</s>
<time>251_00:07:52,897 --> 00:07:53,251</time>
<s>我觉得最主要的</s>
<time>252_00:07:53,611 --> 00:07:55,051</time>
<s>还是它那个地方形成那种</s>
<time>253_00:07:55,411 --> 00:07:57,571</time>
<s>相对封闭的那种村庄的那种</s>
<time>254_00:07:57,931 --> 00:07:59,011</time>
<s>人与人之间的关系</s>
<time>255_00:07:59,371 --> 00:08:00,451</time>
<s>完全打不进去</s>
<time>256_00:08:00,811 --> 00:08:02,611</time>
<s>就是话也听不懂</s>
<time>257_00:08:04,758 --> 00:08:06,198</time>
<s>然后你走到村里</s>
<time>258_00:08:06,558 --> 00:08:07,278</time>
<s>走在街道上</s>
<time>259_00:08:07,638 --> 00:08:08,718</time>
<s>完全你就是一个外来人</s>
<time>260_00:08:09,798 --> 00:08:11,238</time>
<s>没有一个人开口</s>
<time>261_00:08:11,598 --> 00:08:12,318</time>
<s>问路都问不到</s>
<time>262_00:08:12,678 --> 00:08:14,097</time>
<s>当时这个事儿为什么轰动</s>
<time>263_00:08:14,457 --> 00:08:15,537</time>
<s>那个时候我在香港</s>
<time>264_00:08:15,897 --> 00:08:16,977</time>
<s>那都是轰动两岸三地</s>
<time>265_00:08:17,337 --> 00:08:18,057</time>
<s>轰动全世界</s>
<time>266_00:08:18,417 --> 00:08:19,497</time>
<s>几千警力</s>
<time>267_00:08:20,217 --> 00:08:21,657</time>
<s>你想这要进这一个村</s>
<time>268_00:08:22,017 --> 00:08:23,097</time>
<s>然后出动警方</s>
<time>269_00:08:23,451 --> 00:08:25,971</time>
<s>广东公安厅就直升飞机都上去了</s>
<time>270_00:08:26,331 --> 00:08:28,851</time>
<s>就那么才把这个头儿叫蔡东家</s>
<time>271_00:08:29,211 --> 00:08:30,651</time>
<s>蔡东家呢</s>
<time>272_00:08:31,011 --> 00:08:34,238</time>
<s>你的朋友王劲松演得真是好</s>
<time>273_00:08:34,958 --> 00:08:36,038</time>
<s>但是要叫我说呢</s>
<time>274_00:08:36,398 --> 00:08:38,558</time>
<s>我见过蔡东家这个人</s>
<time>275_00:08:38,918 --> 00:08:39,998</time>
<s>真的这个样子</s>
<time>276_00:08:40,358 --> 00:08:41,798</time>
<s>他这个</s>
<time>277_00:08:42,158 --> 00:08:43,577</time>
<s>这个其实跟这个王劲松</s>
<time>278_00:08:43,937 --> 00:08:46,457</time>
<s>王劲松是把他演得更狡猬了</s>
<time>279_00:08:46,817 --> 00:08:47,897</time>
<s>是吧更深沉了</s>
<time>280_00:08:48,257 --> 00:08:49,337</time>
<s>其实蔡东家给我一个印象</s>
<time>281_00:08:49,697 --> 00:08:52,577</time>
<s>就属于这个上额比较短浅的那种</s>
<time>282_00:08:52,937 --> 00:08:55,091</time>
<s>从眉到发际比较短浅</s>
<time>283_00:08:55,451 --> 00:08:56,171</time>
<s>就是他是那种</s>
<time>284_00:08:56,531 --> 00:08:57,971</time>
<s>一看就是地方上的</s>
<time>285_00:08:58,331 --> 00:09:00,851</time>
<s>他不是说是有多高广的智慧那种</s>
<time>286_00:09:01,211 --> 00:09:01,571</time>
<s>就是小智慧</s>
<time>287_00:09:02,651 --> 00:09:03,717</time>
<s>狡點的智慧</s>
<time>288_00:09:04,077 --> 00:09:04,797</time>
<s>可能更多的是</s>
<time>289_00:09:05,157 --> 00:09:05,877</time>
<s>就是小智慧</s>
<time>290_00:09:06,237 --> 00:09:06,957</time>
<s>我看那个剧</s>
<time>291_00:09:07,317 --> 00:09:08,757</time>
<s>我也觉得那王劲松老师有点文了</s>
<time>292_00:09:10,197 --> 00:09:11,637</time>
<s>有点讲的深沉的智慧了</s>
<time>293_00:09:11,997 --> 00:09:12,357</time>
<s>对</s>
<time>294_00:09:12,717 --> 00:09:13,077</time>
<s>它这个剧</s>
<time>295_00:09:13,437 --> 00:09:14,496</time>
<s>你不能把这个他这个人</s>
<time>296_00:09:14,856 --> 00:09:15,936</time>
<s>跟那个毒贩子搁在一块儿比较</s>
<time>297_00:09:16,296 --> 00:09:17,376</time>
<s>他实际上是乡村</s>
<time>298_00:09:17,736 --> 00:09:19,536</time>
<s>乡村宗社的那种老大</s>
<time>299_00:09:19,896 --> 00:09:20,256</time>
<s>老大</s>
<time>300_00:09:21,336 --> 00:09:22,416</time>
<s>不显山不露水</s>
<time>301_00:09:22,776 --> 00:09:24,210</time>
<s>他平时在村里都很少出现</s>
<time>302_00:09:24,570 --> 00:09:26,010</time>
<s>也不是那种前呼后拥</s>
<time>303_00:09:26,370 --> 00:09:27,450</time>
<s>黑社会大哥不是</s>
<time>304_00:09:27,810 --> 00:09:29,250</time>
<s>就一很普通的村民</s>
<time>305_00:09:30,690 --> 00:09:32,850</time>
<s>但是他平时主要在外面活动</s>
<time>306_00:09:33,210 --> 00:09:34,996</time>
<s>因为他还是人大代表</s>
<time>307_00:09:35,356 --> 00:09:36,796</time>
<s>他还是这个各种有身份</s>
<time>308_00:09:37,156 --> 00:09:37,876</time>
<s>就是外边</s>
<time>309_00:09:38,236 --> 00:09:38,956</time>
<s>所以他的主要工作就是</s>
<time>310_00:09:39,316 --> 00:09:40,756</time>
<s>陪外边的各种资源方</s>
<time>311_00:09:41,116 --> 00:09:42,916</time>
<s>不管是大老板还是领导打牌</s>
<time>312_00:09:45,055 --> 00:09:45,415</time>
<s>所以这个</s>
<time>313_00:09:45,775 --> 00:09:48,655</time>
<s>您知道我因为在广东这个多年</s>
<time>314_00:09:49,015 --> 00:09:50,095</time>
<s>但我又是个北方人</s>
<time>315_00:09:50,455 --> 00:09:51,535</time>
<s>所以很多北方人</s>
<time>316_00:09:51,895 --> 00:09:54,408</time>
<s>你不理解广东乡间的一些</s>
<time>317_00:09:54,768 --> 00:09:55,848</time>
<s>这个宗社的这种</s>
<time>318_00:09:56,208 --> 00:09:57,648</time>
<s>宗族的这种情况</s>
<time>319_00:09:58,008 --> 00:09:59,808</time>
<s>潮汕那边海陆丰那边</s>
<time>320_00:10:00,168 --> 00:10:01,608</time>
<s>你知道就是因为我们也有朋友</s>
<time>321_00:10:01,968 --> 00:10:03,048</time>
<s>是那儿的人</s>
<time>322_00:10:03,408 --> 00:10:04,474</time>
<s>那真的是就是说</s>
<time>323_00:10:04,834 --> 00:10:06,274</time>
<s>家里一有个什么事儿</s>
<time>324_00:10:06,634 --> 00:10:08,434</time>
<s>一百多号人就来了</s>
<time>325_00:10:08,794 --> 00:10:09,154</time>
<s>抱团儿是</s>
<time>326_00:10:09,514 --> 00:10:13,474</time>
<s>哪怕是个婚丧嫁娶全来了</s>
<time>327_00:10:13,834 --> 00:10:14,893</time>
<s>就是有做饭的</s>
<time>328_00:10:15,253 --> 00:10:16,693</time>
<s>有这在祠堂里</s>
<time>329_00:10:17,053 --> 00:10:18,133</time>
<s>这商量事儿出主意</s>
<time>330_00:10:18,493 --> 00:10:20,293</time>
<s>就是等于你根本不是</s>
<time>331_00:10:21,013 --> 00:10:23,533</time>
<s>这种一家一户的这个概念</s>
<time>332_00:10:23,893 --> 00:10:25,686</time>
<s>它倒是让咱们看到</s>
<time>333_00:10:26,046 --> 00:10:28,926</time>
<s>早期的中国乡间的那种</s>
<time>334_00:10:29,286 --> 00:10:30,366</time>
<s>他们那儿现在还是这样</s>
<time>335_00:10:31,086 --> 00:10:32,166</time>
<s>至少那个博社村</s>
<time>336_00:10:32,526 --> 00:10:33,606</time>
<s>还是非常明显的</s>
<time>337_00:10:33,966 --> 00:10:34,672</time>
<s>最明显的</s>
<time>338_00:10:35,032 --> 00:10:35,392</time>
<s>你就是你进那个村里</s>
<time>339_00:10:35,752 --> 00:10:37,912</time>
<s>我特别第一次去的时候特别震撼</s>
<time>340_00:10:38,272 --> 00:10:39,712</time>
<s>就是它大概有四十座祠堂</s>
<time>341_00:10:41,152 --> 00:10:41,512</time>
<s>这什么概念</s>
<time>342_00:10:41,872 --> 00:10:43,672</time>
<s>就是一个村有四十座祠堂</s>
<time>343_00:10:44,032 --> 00:10:44,730</time>
<s>以前我们印象</s>
<time>344_00:10:45,090 --> 00:10:46,530</time>
<s>有个村里有个老祠堂</s>
<time>345_00:10:46,890 --> 00:10:47,970</time>
<s>那也是一个两个的</s>
<time>346_00:10:48,330 --> 00:10:50,490</time>
<s>它就连片的四十座祠堂</s>
<time>347_00:10:50,850 --> 00:10:51,930</time>
<s>这就意味着它这个村里</s>
<time>348_00:10:52,290 --> 00:10:53,730</time>
<s>至少分了四十个分支</s>
<time>349_00:10:54,804 --> 00:10:55,524</time>
<s>就是一个人从出生</s>
<time>350_00:10:55,884 --> 00:10:58,044</time>
<s>尤其男孩儿从出生开始</s>
<time>351_00:10:58,404 --> 00:10:59,124</time>
<s>你就给你定好了</s>
<time>352_00:10:59,484 --> 00:11:01,284</time>
<s>你是属于哪座祠堂下面的</s>
<time>353_00:11:01,644 --> 00:11:04,164</time>
<s>哪座支这个分支分脉下边的</s>
<time>354_00:11:04,509 --> 00:11:05,229</time>
<s>然后到十八岁的时候</s>
<time>355_00:11:05,589 --> 00:11:07,389</time>
<s>你还要成人礼</s>
<time>356_00:11:07,749 --> 00:11:08,109</time>
<s>你结婚什么的</s>
<time>357_00:11:08,469 --> 00:11:09,909</time>
<s>你必须得要去拜老祖宗</s>
<time>358_00:11:10,269 --> 00:11:11,349</time>
<s>就每年有很多仪式</s>
<time>359_00:11:12,789 --> 00:11:13,509</time>
<s>每个人的身份</s>
<time>360_00:11:13,869 --> 00:11:14,567</time>
<s>最鲜明的标签</s>
<time>361_00:11:14,927 --> 00:11:15,647</time>
<s>就是你是哪个堂的</s>
<time>362_00:11:17,807 --> 00:11:19,607</time>
<s>所以它这个就是非常的</s>
<time>363_00:11:19,967 --> 00:11:22,127</time>
<s>还保留着这个传统根深蒂固</s>
<time>364_00:11:22,487 --> 00:11:23,207</time>
<s>宗族思想</s>
<time>365_00:11:23,567 --> 00:11:25,001</time>
<s>它中国是这样</s>
<time>366_00:11:25,361 --> 00:11:27,521</time>
<s>中国在这个中国古代传统文化中</s>
<time>367_00:11:27,881 --> 00:11:30,401</time>
<s>语言系统是非常重要的</s>
<time>368_00:11:30,761 --> 00:11:31,841</time>
<s>凡是独特语言系统的人</s>
<time>369_00:11:32,201 --> 00:11:34,361</time>
<s>都有极强的宗族思想</s>
<time>370_00:11:34,706 --> 00:11:35,066</time>
<s>您讲这个好玩儿</s>
<time>371_00:11:35,426 --> 00:11:36,866</time>
<s>你看你像潮汕地区</s>
<time>372_00:11:37,226 --> 00:11:37,946</time>
<s>你像温州地区</s>
<time>373_00:11:38,306 --> 00:11:40,106</time>
<s>就中国这些语言比较</s>
<time>374_00:11:40,466 --> 00:11:40,826</time>
<s>就是外边人听着</s>
<time>375_00:11:41,186 --> 00:11:42,626</time>
<s>比较难的那种语言</s>
<time>376_00:11:42,986 --> 00:11:44,066</time>
<s>他们的凝聚力都非常好</s>
<time>377_00:11:44,426 --> 00:11:45,484</time>
<s>包括闽南地区</s>
<time>378_00:11:46,204 --> 00:11:47,284</time>
<s>闽南地区也非常厉害</s>
<time>379_00:11:47,644 --> 00:11:48,364</time>
<s>闽南地区到现在</s>
<time>380_00:11:48,724 --> 00:11:49,804</time>
<s>还有非常好的风俗</s>
<time>381_00:11:50,164 --> 00:11:51,604</time>
<s>就是我去这个厦门去</s>
<time>382_00:11:51,964 --> 00:11:53,044</time>
<s>后来就发现</s>
<time>383_00:11:53,404 --> 00:11:55,917</time>
<s>他们现在盖的那种新建筑</s>
<time>384_00:11:56,277 --> 00:11:57,357</time>
<s>经常是这种现象</s>
<time>385_00:11:57,717 --> 00:11:59,157</time>
<s>啪这一个门就来一个人跟你谈</s>
<time>386_00:11:59,517 --> 00:12:00,957</time>
<s>说这门我买了</s>
<time>387_00:12:01,317 --> 00:12:03,117</time>
<s>说这个或者我买门</s>
<time>388_00:12:03,477 --> 00:12:04,557</time>
<s>这半个楼我就给买走了</s>
<time>389_00:12:04,902 --> 00:12:05,622</time>
<s>全是他一个家族的人</s>
<time>390_00:12:07,062 --> 00:12:10,302</time>
<s>就是他把原来那个祠堂</s>
<time>391_00:12:10,662 --> 00:12:11,382</time>
<s>就是那个村里那个现象</s>
<time>392_00:12:11,742 --> 00:12:12,822</time>
<s>因为他被迫建楼</s>
<time>393_00:12:13,182 --> 00:12:14,262</time>
<s>所以他就把这个楼买了</s>
<time>394_00:12:14,622 --> 00:12:15,320</time>
<s>买了以后呢</s>
<time>395_00:12:15,680 --> 00:12:16,400</time>
<s>后来我就跟他们聊</s>
<time>396_00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:18,200</time>
<s>他说他们那儿有一特好的一个习俗</s>
<time>397_00:12:18,560 --> 00:12:20,360</time>
<s>他说他们那儿有一特好的一个习俗</s>
<time>398_00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:21,440</time>
<s>是什么呢</s>
<time>399_00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:22,880</time>
<s>就是我们老说的</s>
<time>400_00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:24,320</time>
<s>多年的媳妇儿熬成婆</s>
<time>401_00:12:24,680 --> 00:12:28,633</time>
<s>在婆媳之间没有人断对错</s>
<time>402_00:12:28,993 --> 00:12:30,793</time>
<s>婆婆是对的永远是对的</s>
<time>403_00:12:31,153 --> 00:12:31,513</time>
<s>你要不服气</s>
<time>404_00:12:31,873 --> 00:12:32,953</time>
<s>等你到婆婆那一天</s>
<time>405_00:12:33,313 --> 00:12:33,673</time>
<s>对</s>
<time>406_00:12:34,033 --> 00:12:35,458</time>
<s>它就变得所有的事情</s>
<time>407_00:12:35,818 --> 00:12:36,898</time>
<s>变得非常简单</s>
<time>408_00:12:37,258 --> 00:12:37,618</time>
<s>没有人去</s>
<time>409_00:12:37,978 --> 00:12:39,058</time>
<s>就是你作为一个儿媳妇儿</s>
<time>410_00:12:39,418 --> 00:12:40,138</time>
<s>说我们家婆婆什么什么什么</s>
<time>411_00:12:40,498 --> 00:12:42,298</time>
<s>它也后来就没人说了</s>
<time>412_00:12:42,658 --> 00:12:44,818</time>
<s>它社会就变得凝聚力非常强</s>
<time>413_00:12:45,155 --> 00:12:46,235</time>
<s>这婆婆说一事儿就全都去了</s>
<time>414_00:12:46,595 --> 00:12:47,315</time>
<s>就这么简单了</s>
<time>415_00:12:47,675 --> 00:12:48,755</time>
<s>您说这个我想起来</s>
<time>416_00:12:49,115 --> 00:12:52,715</time>
<s>我有一个温州的很好的朋友</s>
<time>417_00:12:53,075 --> 00:12:54,515</time>
<s>我对他有一次印象很深</s>
<time>418_00:12:54,875 --> 00:12:57,388</time>
<s>就是他到深圳来玩儿</s>
<time>419_00:12:57,748 --> 00:12:58,468</time>
<s>跟我打电话</s>
<time>420_00:12:58,828 --> 00:13:00,268</time>
<s>我就想好久没见了</s>
<time>421_00:13:00,628 --> 00:13:02,788</time>
<s>我就想拉他上我们家来玩儿</s>
<time>422_00:13:03,148 --> 00:13:05,293</time>
<s>然后他当时在一个酒吧</s>
<time>423_00:13:05,653 --> 00:13:07,093</time>
<s>还是在一个歌厅什么的</s>
<time>424_00:13:07,453 --> 00:13:08,893</time>
<s>然后我就去聊了一会儿</s>
<time>425_00:13:09,253 --> 00:13:10,693</time>
<s>我说那个请你上我们家来玩儿</s>
<time>426_00:13:11,053 --> 00:13:12,493</time>
<s>他说行就走</s>
<time>427_00:13:12,853 --> 00:13:14,653</time>
<s>后来我说咱们打一个车</s>
<time>428_00:13:15,013 --> 00:13:17,510</time>
<s>他说不行得打</s>
<time>429_00:13:17,870 --> 00:13:18,590</time>
<s>四五辆车</s>
<time>430_00:13:18,950 --> 00:13:19,310</time>
<s>我说为什么</s>
<time>431_00:13:19,670 --> 00:13:20,390</time>
<s>这后边十几个</s>
