<time>868_00:25:58,521 --> 00:25:59,241</time>
<s>就是他永远说什么</s>
<time>869_00:25:59,601 --> 00:26:00,669</time>
<s>以前叫铜钿</s>
<time>870_00:26:01,029 --> 00:26:02,109</time>
<s>铜钿那更厉害</s>
<time>871_00:26:02,829 --> 00:26:03,909</time>
<s>我小时候钱包都没有</s>
<time>872_00:26:04,269 --> 00:26:04,989</time>
<s>就瑞裤兜里</s>
<time>873_00:26:05,349 --> 00:26:05,709</time>
<s>没有皮夹子</s>
<time>874_00:26:06,069 --> 00:26:06,789</time>
<s>不是它是这样</s>
<time>875_00:26:07,149 --> 00:26:08,949</time>
<s>他在这种语言的选择当中呢</s>
<time>876_00:26:09,309 --> 00:26:10,389</time>
<s>他的个性化就存在</s>
<time>877_00:26:10,729 --> 00:26:11,449</time>
<s>原来我们</s>
<time>878_00:26:11,809 --> 00:26:12,529</time>
<s>你想我搞文字的嘛</s>
<time>879_00:26:12,889 --> 00:26:14,329</time>
<s>我就很喜欢这个事</s>
<time>880_00:26:14,689 --> 00:26:17,929</time>
<s>永远在呼吁要保护这个方言</s>
<time>881_00:26:18,289 --> 00:26:19,009</time>
<s>但有一个不幸</s>
<time>882_00:26:19,369 --> 00:26:20,805</time>
<s>比如就拿尤其上海话</s>
<time>883_00:26:21,165 --> 00:26:22,965</time>
<s>上海话就基本消亡</s>
<time>884_00:26:23,325 --> 00:26:24,405</time>
<s>因为现在这个</s>
<time>885_00:26:24,765 --> 00:26:26,925</time>
<s>这层80后90后00后</s>
<time>886_00:26:27,285 --> 00:26:29,085</time>
<s>最好的是能听不能讲</s>
<time>887_00:26:29,445 --> 00:26:31,233</time>
<s>这是能听不能讲</s>
<time>888_00:26:31,593 --> 00:26:33,753</time>
<s>他们再下去一代人就没了</s>
<time>889_00:26:34,113 --> 00:26:34,833</time>
<s>就这么简单</s>
<time>890_00:26:35,193 --> 00:26:37,713</time>
<s>因为那个九十年代的时候</s>
<time>891_00:26:38,073 --> 00:26:40,233</time>
<s>开始有房子买卖</s>
<time>892_00:26:40,593 --> 00:26:43,093</time>
<s>那外地有很多很有钱的大佬</s>
<time>893_00:26:43,453 --> 00:26:44,173</time>
<s>到上海来买房子</s>
<time>894_00:26:44,533 --> 00:26:46,693</time>
<s>浦东一买几十套什么什么的</s>
<time>895_00:26:47,053 --> 00:26:48,493</time>
<s>还有就是外地大量的</s>
<time>896_00:26:48,853 --> 00:26:51,008</time>
<s>处以上干部调到上海来工作</s>
<time>897_00:26:51,368 --> 00:26:52,808</time>
<s>因为上海扩大</s>
<time>898_00:26:53,168 --> 00:26:56,408</time>
<s>那么这两个人群到上海以后呢</s>
<time>899_00:26:56,768 --> 00:26:58,568</time>
<s>他实际我认为他是会</s>
<time>900_00:26:58,928 --> 00:27:01,076</time>
<s>起到一个作用是什么</s>
<time>901_00:27:01,436 --> 00:27:03,596</time>
<s>就是不许讲上海话</s>
<time>902_00:27:03,956 --> 00:27:04,676</time>
<s>因为从他的</s>
<time>903_00:27:05,036 --> 00:27:06,116</time>
<s>也没有不许</s>
<time>904_00:27:06,476 --> 00:27:08,276</time>
<s>不许学校现在不许</s>
<time>905_00:27:08,636 --> 00:27:09,716</time>
<s>请讲普通话</s>
<time>906_00:27:10,076 --> 00:27:10,796</time>
<s>就是你到任何地方</s>
<time>907_00:27:11,136 --> 00:27:13,656</time>
<s>你到那种领导的这种办公楼什么</s>
<time>908_00:27:14,016 --> 00:27:15,816</time>
<s>进去一看就请讲普通话</s>
<time>909_00:27:16,176 --> 00:27:17,256</time>
<s>因为大量的外地干部来</s>
<time>910_00:27:18,696 --> 00:27:20,136</time>
<s>而且我从他们的角度讲</s>
<time>911_00:27:20,496 --> 00:27:20,856</time>
<s>一点不冤枉</s>
<time>912_00:27:21,211 --> 00:27:23,011</time>
<s>因为大家都受的普通话的教育</s>
<time>913_00:27:23,371 --> 00:27:25,531</time>
<s>我凭什么到你们这边来</s>
<time>914_00:27:25,891 --> 00:27:26,971</time>
<s>我要说你们的方言</s>
<time>915_00:27:28,771 --> 00:27:29,851</time>
<s>但是在过去的时候</s>
<time>916_00:27:30,211 --> 00:27:31,279</time>
<s>二十年代三十年代的时候</s>
<time>917_00:27:31,639 --> 00:27:33,799</time>
<s>全国各个城市</s>
<time>918_00:27:34,159 --> 00:27:35,239</time>
<s>你一个人到这边来做生意</s>
<time>919_00:27:35,599 --> 00:27:37,759</time>
<s>你必须要学当地语言</s>
<time>920_00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:38,839</time>
<s>这个是一个规矩</s>
<time>921_00:27:39,199 --> 00:27:40,279</time>
<s>入乡随俗</s>
<time>922_00:27:40,639 --> 00:27:42,778</time>
<s>但是现在因为我刚才说的这种情况</s>
<time>923_00:27:43,138 --> 00:27:44,578</time>
<s>过去是不会有那么多</s>
<time>924_00:27:44,938 --> 00:27:46,378</time>
<s>一下子要来那么多知识分子</s>
<time>925_00:27:46,738 --> 00:27:48,898</time>
<s>或者说一下来那么多老板</s>
<time>926_00:27:49,258 --> 00:27:50,698</time>
<s>过去都是各行各业</s>
<time>927_00:27:51,058 --> 00:27:51,773</time>
<s>这么慢慢渗透进来</s>
<time>928_00:27:52,133 --> 00:27:56,453</time>
<s>讲各种口音的本城的话</s>
<time>929_00:27:56,813 --> 00:27:57,533</time>
<s>山东上海话了</s>
<time>930_00:27:57,893 --> 00:27:59,333</time>
<s>苏州宁波上海话</s>
<time>931_00:27:59,693 --> 00:28:00,413</time>
<s>都口音都不一样</s>
<time>932_00:28:02,561 --> 00:28:03,641</time>
<s>别的城市也是如此</s>
<time>933_00:28:04,001 --> 00:28:04,721</time>
<s>千山遮不住</s>
<time>934_00:28:05,081 --> 00:28:05,801</time>
<s>毕竟东流去了</s>
<time>935_00:28:06,161 --> 00:28:07,241</time>
<s>我觉得你现在呼吁这个</s>
<time>936_00:28:07,601 --> 00:28:09,401</time>
<s>很难办了</s>
<time>937_00:28:09,761 --> 00:28:10,121</time>
<s>没有可能了</s>
<time>938_00:28:10,481 --> 00:28:10,841</time>
<s>没办法</s>
<time>939_00:28:11,201 --> 00:28:11,540</time>
<s>这是个全球性的问题</s>
<time>940_00:28:12,260 --> 00:28:14,420</time>
<s>全球的城市都在越来越像</s>
<time>941_00:28:14,780 --> 00:28:18,380</time>
<s>我二十年前在广州住过七年</s>
<time>942_00:28:18,740 --> 00:28:19,820</time>
<s>那个时候只有我们广东电台</s>
<time>943_00:28:20,180 --> 00:28:22,335</time>
<s>大院儿里讲普通话</s>
<time>944_00:28:22,695 --> 00:28:23,775</time>
<s>就是在大院儿讲普通话</s>
<time>945_00:28:24,135 --> 00:28:25,575</time>
<s>出去就是个广州话的世界</s>
<time>946_00:28:25,935 --> 00:28:27,735</time>
<s>但是今天连广州也一样</s>
<time>947_00:28:28,095 --> 00:28:28,455</time>
<s>对</s>
<time>948_00:28:29,175 --> 00:28:30,255</time>
<s>是我觉得一个方面</s>
<time>949_00:28:30,615 --> 00:28:31,335</time>
<s>我作为一个上海人</s>
<time>950_00:28:31,682 --> 00:28:32,402</time>
<s>那上海话是有</s>
<time>951_00:28:32,762 --> 00:28:33,482</time>
<s>你有一个情结嘛</s>
<time>952_00:28:33,842 --> 00:28:34,922</time>
<s>你当然就觉得就失落了你很</s>
<time>953_00:28:35,282 --> 00:28:36,362</time>
<s>就是你会挺不高兴</s>
<time>954_00:28:36,722 --> 00:28:37,082</time>
<s>但另外一个方面</s>
<time>955_00:28:37,442 --> 00:28:38,882</time>
<s>我还真的觉得有的时候</s>
<time>956_00:28:39,242 --> 00:28:40,322</time>
<s>我们要有一个更宽容的</s>
<time>957_00:28:40,682 --> 00:28:41,742</time>
<s>更包容的一个心态</s>
<time>958_00:28:42,102 --> 00:28:42,822</time>
<s>因为什么呢</s>
<time>959_00:28:43,182 --> 00:28:43,902</time>
<s>你这个人口的流动</s>
<time>960_00:28:44,262 --> 00:28:45,342</time>
<s>真的是挡不住</s>
<time>961_00:28:45,702 --> 00:28:47,142</time>
<s>我现在回上海我见的朋友</s>
<time>962_00:28:47,502 --> 00:28:48,942</time>
<s>就除了我小时候我一块长大的</s>
<time>963_00:28:49,302 --> 00:28:52,176</time>
<s>大部分朋友都不是上海人</s>
<time>964_00:28:52,536 --> 00:28:54,336</time>
<s>我家里面就有的亲戚</s>
<time>965_00:28:54,696 --> 00:28:56,856</time>
<s>他们老说要把那个外地人赶走</s>
<time>966_00:28:57,216 --> 00:28:57,576</time>
<s>我说你赶走了</s>
<time>967_00:28:57,936 --> 00:28:58,656</time>
<s>我上海没有朋友了</s>
<time>968_00:28:59,016 --> 00:29:00,456</time>
<s>我朋友都是外地人</s>
<time>969_00:29:00,816 --> 00:29:01,176</time>
<s>我有的朋友说</s>
<time>970_00:29:01,536 --> 00:29:02,963</time>
<s>我在这个市中心住着</s>
<time>971_00:29:03,323 --> 00:29:03,683</time>
<s>我这一个月</s>
<time>972_00:29:04,043 --> 00:29:04,763</time>
<s>我见的人都不是上海人</s>
<time>973_00:29:05,843 --> 00:29:06,923</time>
<s>他们我以前有</s>
<time>974_00:29:07,283 --> 00:29:07,643</time>
<s>我上大学的时候</s>
<time>975_00:29:08,003 --> 00:29:08,723</time>
<s>我领了一个东北的</s>
<time>976_00:29:09,083 --> 00:29:10,523</time>
<s>就是一个朋友就回上海</s>
<time>977_00:29:10,883 --> 00:29:11,942</time>
<s>一个星期他就能大概听到</s>
<time>978_00:29:12,302 --> 00:29:13,022</time>
<s>就听懂一些上海话了</s>
<time>979_00:29:13,382 --> 00:29:13,742</time>
<s>那他是天才</s>
<time>980_00:29:14,102 --> 00:29:14,462</time>
<s>因为他老听老听</s>
<time>981_00:29:15,182 --> 00:29:15,542</time>
<s>不是他能</s>
<time>982_00:29:15,902 --> 00:29:16,622</time>
<s>因为你老听见</s>
<time>983_00:29:16,982 --> 00:29:18,062</time>
<s>但是现在我知道的朋友</s>
<time>984_00:29:18,422 --> 00:29:19,502</time>
<s>在那住几年都听不懂</s>
<time>985_00:29:19,862 --> 00:29:20,942</time>
<s>因为他接触不到上海话</s>
<time>986_00:29:22,737 --> 00:29:23,817</time>
<s>唯一的只有</s>
<time>987_00:29:24,177 --> 00:29:26,697</time>
<s>我是注意到只有菜场里边</s>
<time>988_00:29:27,057 --> 00:29:29,577</time>
<s>那些做最基层的工作的</s>
<time>989_00:29:29,937 --> 00:29:31,017</time>
<s>外来的朋友</s>
<time>990_00:29:31,377 --> 00:29:32,444</time>
<s>这些菜市场卖菜的</s>
<time>991_00:29:32,804 --> 00:29:34,244</time>
<s>那山东安徽</s>
<time>992_00:29:34,604 --> 00:29:36,764</time>
<s>那几年都上海话说得真溜</s>
<time>993_00:29:37,124 --> 00:29:38,924</time>
<s>他天天就和那些老百姓打交道</s>
<time>994_00:29:40,364 --> 00:29:43,223</time>
<s>那个送快递的</s>
<time>995_00:29:43,583 --> 00:29:46,103</time>
<s>那些帮人家家里带孩子的这些</s>
<time>996_00:29:46,463 --> 00:29:47,903</time>
<s>都不是上海人</s>
<time>997_00:29:48,263 --> 00:29:49,703</time>
<s>我在他们身上看到就是过去</s>
<time>998_00:29:50,063 --> 00:29:51,863</time>
<s>我们上一代上海人</s>
<time>999_00:29:52,217 --> 00:29:52,937</time>
<s>怎么进入这个城市</s>
<time>1000_00:29:53,297 --> 00:29:54,737</time>
<s>就是这么样进来的</s>
<time>1001_00:29:55,097 --> 00:29:56,177</time>
<s>我们自己也都是移民其实</s>
<time>1002_00:29:56,537 --> 00:29:58,337</time>
<s>对啊都是从外面这么流动进来</s>
<time>1003_00:29:58,697 --> 00:29:59,777</time>
<s>那你们两个上海人就是</s>
<time>1004_00:30:00,137 --> 00:30:00,857</time>
<s>你们可以说</s>
<time>1005_00:30:01,217 --> 00:30:01,577</time>
<s>到底比如说</s>
<time>1006_00:30:01,937 --> 00:30:04,084</time>
<s>这个外地人进入上海</s>
<time>1007_00:30:04,444 --> 00:30:06,244</time>
<s>跟上海人融合很困难吗</s>
<time>1008_00:30:06,604 --> 00:30:07,324</time>
<s>上海人排外吗</s>
<time>1009_00:30:07,684 --> 00:30:08,044</time>
<s>没有</s>
<time>1010_00:30:08,404 --> 00:30:08,764</time>
<s>他心里不起我们吗</s>
<time>1011_00:30:09,124 --> 00:30:09,844</time>
<s>融合非常容易</s>
<time>1012_00:30:10,204 --> 00:30:13,062</time>
<s>现在越来越容易了</s>
<time>1013_00:30:13,422 --> 00:30:14,862</time>
<s>因为现在的不像过去</s>
<time>1014_00:30:15,222 --> 00:30:18,462</time>
<s>有整个二十年那个户口封闭</s>
<time>1015_00:30:18,822 --> 00:30:19,902</time>
<s>外边也不能进来</s>
<time>1016_00:30:20,262 --> 00:30:22,417</time>
<s>里边出不去外边不能进来</s>
<time>1017_00:30:22,777 --> 00:30:23,857</time>
<s>然后到改革开放之后</s>
<time>1018_00:30:24,217 --> 00:30:24,577</time>
<s>大量人进来</s>
<time>1019_00:30:24,937 --> 00:30:27,817</time>
<s>这才是上海原本的历史</s>
<time>1020_00:30:28,177 --> 00:30:29,257</time>
<s>因为上海原本就是</s>
<time>1021_00:30:29,617 --> 00:30:31,057</time>
<s>就是这么一个小县城</s>
<time>1022_00:30:31,417 --> 00:30:32,843</time>
<s>我上次看一个资料说</s>
<time>1023_00:30:33,203 --> 00:30:35,363</time>
<s>这个1843年开埠嘛</s>
<time>1024_00:30:35,723 --> 00:30:40,043</time>
<s>它1836年说是有两艘英国人的船</s>
<time>1025_00:30:40,403 --> 00:30:42,203</time>
<s>到广东被赶走</s>
<time>1026_00:30:42,542 --> 00:30:43,262</time>
<s>这两艘船没办法说</s>
<time>1027_00:30:43,622 --> 00:30:44,342</time>
<s>听他们讲说</s>
<time>1028_00:30:44,702 --> 00:30:46,502</time>
<s>到前头试试运气</s>
<time>1029_00:30:46,862 --> 00:30:48,302</time>
<s>到了上海十六铺</s>
<time>1030_00:30:48,662 --> 00:30:50,822</time>
<s>停在十六铺以后说</s>
<time>1031_00:30:51,182 --> 00:30:52,976</time>
<s>立刻这个老城乡里面</s>
<time>1032_00:30:53,336 --> 00:30:56,216</time>
<s>那些上海人全上来东看西看</s>
<time>1033_00:30:56,576 --> 00:30:58,736</time>
<s>打听跟他们搭让说</s>
<time>1034_00:30:59,096 --> 00:31:00,176</time>
<s>你们要不要借房子</s>
<time>1035_00:31:00,536 --> 00:31:01,616</time>
<s>你们要什么就搭让</s>
<time>1036_00:31:01,976 --> 00:31:02,682</time>
<s>他说我们从来没见过</s>
<time>1037_00:31:03,042 --> 00:31:04,482</time>
<s>这个地方的人会这样子</s>
<time>1038_00:31:04,842 --> 00:31:05,202</time>
<s>这么会做生意</s>
<time>1039_00:31:06,282 --> 00:31:07,002</time>
<s>因为这个老城</s>
<time>1040_00:31:07,722 --> 00:31:09,522</time>
<s>这个地方上海这个地方的人</s>
<time>1041_00:31:09,882 --> 00:31:10,962</time>
<s>他本身也那个时代</s>
<time>1042_00:31:11,322 --> 00:31:13,100</time>
<s>就是外边来的</s>
<time>1043_00:31:13,460 --> 00:31:16,340</time>
<s>他没有一个本地文化一个牵扯</s>
<time>1044_00:31:16,700 --> 00:31:18,860</time>
<s>他都是到了这么一个临海的</s>
<time>1045_00:31:19,220 --> 00:31:20,660</time>
<s>临河边的这么一个地方</s>
<time>1046_00:31:21,020 --> 00:31:22,814</time>
<s>所以他外边来的话</s>
<time>1047_00:31:23,174 --> 00:31:23,534</time>
<s>他都可以上去说</s>
<time>1048_00:31:23,894 --> 00:31:25,334</time>
<s>我听着最初怎么有点像荷兰</s>
<time>1049_00:31:27,134 --> 00:31:31,094</time>
<s>然后呢说是他们两船东西都卖掉</s>
<time>1050_00:31:31,454 --> 00:31:34,320</time>
<s>卖掉以后立刻让他们买蚕丝</s>
<time>1051_00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:37,920</time>
<s>那个各种那个纺织品</s>
<time>1052_00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:39,720</time>
<s>结果就大大地出超</s>
<time>1053_00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:43,658</time>
<s>就等于说钱都被上海人赚去了</s>
<time>1054_00:31:44,018 --> 00:31:45,458</time>
<s>然后他们就走的时候说</s>
<time>1055_00:31:45,818 --> 00:31:46,898</time>
<s>这个地方有意思</s>
<time>1056_00:31:47,258 --> 00:31:48,338</time>
<s>我们要记住这个地方</s>
<time>1057_00:31:48,698 --> 00:31:49,058</time>
<s>下回还来</s>
<time>1058_00:31:50,138 --> 00:31:51,218</time>
<s>所以你发现没有</s>
<time>1059_00:31:51,578 --> 00:31:52,298</time>
<s>要是一个地方</s>
<time>1060_00:31:52,658 --> 00:31:55,892</time>
<s>它没有那真绝对意义上的原住民</s>
<time>1061_00:31:56,252 --> 00:31:57,692</time>
<s>都是八方来客的话</s>
<time>1062_00:31:58,052 --> 00:31:58,412</time>
<s>你发现没有</s>
<time>1063_00:31:58,772 --> 00:32:01,652</time>
<s>它最先滋生的商业交易语言</s>
<time>1064_00:32:02,012 --> 00:32:04,158</time>
<s>是普世通行的</s>
<time>1065_00:32:04,518 --> 00:32:05,598</time>
<s>所以你看荷兰也是</s>
<time>1066_00:32:05,958 --> 00:32:07,038</time>
<s>如果都是外地来的</s>
<time>1067_00:32:07,398 --> 00:32:09,558</time>
<s>咱们在这儿能通的就是交易</s>
<time>1068_00:32:10,638 --> 00:32:11,358</time>
<s>所以就是</s>
<time>1069_00:32:12,078 --> 00:32:13,856</time>
<s>我觉得金老师对语言有创造</s>
<time>1070_00:32:15,656 --> 00:32:17,096</time>
<s>这个当年有一本书</s>
<time>1071_00:32:17,456 --> 00:32:18,536</time>
<s>叫《海上花列传》</s>
<time>1072_00:32:18,896 --> 00:32:19,976</time>
<s>这个韩邦庆写的</s>
<time>1073_00:32:20,336 --> 00:32:22,136</time>
<s>韩邦庆是写的苏白</s>
<time>1074_00:32:22,496 --> 00:32:23,929</time>
<s>苏州话是咱们看不懂的</s>
<time>1075_00:32:24,289 --> 00:32:25,369</time>
<s>后来张爱玲就觉得</s>
<time>1076_00:32:25,729 --> 00:32:27,169</time>
<s>这是个很好的小说传统</s>
<time>1077_00:32:27,529 --> 00:32:28,249</time>
<s>张爱玲把它翻译成</s>
<time>1078_00:32:28,609 --> 00:32:29,689</time>
<s>咱们看得懂的了</s>
<time>1079_00:32:30,049 --> 00:32:31,849</time>
<s>然后这个金老师当年</s>
<time>1080_00:32:32,209 --> 00:32:32,569</time>
<s>写这个东西</s>
<time>1081_00:32:32,929 --> 00:32:33,635</time>
<s>所以他这个小说里</s>
<time>1082_00:32:33,995 --> 00:32:35,075</time>
<s>留下很多著名的词</s>
<time>1083_00:32:35,435 --> 00:32:36,515</time>
<s>我觉得很有深意的一个</s>
<time>1084_00:32:36,875 --> 00:32:37,955</time>
<s>就是不响</s>
<time>1085_00:32:38,315 --> 00:32:39,395</time>
<s>上海话怎么说</s>
<time>1086_00:32:39,755 --> 00:32:40,475</time>
<s>上海话就不响</s>
<time>1087_00:32:41,195 --> 00:32:41,555</time>
<s>不响</s>
<time>1088_00:32:41,915 --> 00:32:42,635</time>
<s>就是闷声不响</s>
<time>1089_00:32:42,995 --> 00:32:43,693</time>
<s>这四个字不响</s>
<time>1090_00:32:44,053 --> 00:32:46,213</time>
<s>这说老实话就是这也就是</s>
<time>1091_00:32:46,573 --> 00:32:48,373</time>
<s>就觉得你很喜欢上海人</s>
<time>1092_00:32:48,733 --> 00:32:51,613</time>
<s>但是好像很难跟他交心的原因</s>
<time>1093_00:32:51,973 --> 00:32:53,406</time>
<s>就是在于他有一个</s>
<time>1094_00:32:53,766 --> 00:32:54,126</time>
<s>他永远不知道</s>
<time>1095_00:32:54,486 --> 00:32:56,646</time>
<s>他的潜台词是什么不响</s>
<time>1096_00:32:57,006 --> 00:32:57,366</time>
<s>您怎么解释</s>
<time>1097_00:32:57,726 --> 00:32:58,806</time>
<s>它是因为什么呢</s>
<time>1098_00:32:59,166 --> 00:33:00,606</time>
<s>就是你如果用上海话</s>
<time>1099_00:33:00,966 --> 00:33:02,406</time>
<s>你在心里边写作的时候</s>
<time>1100_00:33:02,766 --> 00:33:04,192</time>
<s>你心里边一般都是普通话</s>
<time>1101_00:33:04,552 --> 00:33:07,072</time>
<s>对吧写作语言思维</s>
<time>1102_00:33:07,432 --> 00:33:08,872</time>
<s>那么你一般的电脑面前写字</s>
<time>1103_00:33:09,232 --> 00:33:10,672</time>
<s>你就是普通话思维</s>
<time>1104_00:33:11,032 --> 00:33:12,472</time>
<s>但是你如果用上海话写的话</s>
<time>1105_00:33:12,832 --> 00:33:15,329</time>
<s>你用上海话思维叙述一件事</s>
<time>1106_00:33:15,689 --> 00:33:17,849</time>
<s>里边肯定就会出现不响两个字</s>
<time>1107_00:33:18,209 --> 00:33:19,649</time>
<s>因为这里头警如说</s>
<time>1108_00:33:20,009 --> 00:33:21,449</time>
<s>张三去找这个领导</s>
<time>1109_00:33:21,809 --> 00:33:23,249</time>
<s>我们上海人叙述一件事</s>
<time>1110_00:33:23,602 --> 00:33:26,842</time>
<s>它“不响”两个字包括了一种省略</s>
<time>1111_00:33:27,202 --> 00:33:27,562</time>
<s>比如一个</s>
<time>1112_00:33:27,922 --> 00:33:29,362</time>
<s>一件事大家都知道了</s>
<time>1113_00:33:29,722 --> 00:33:30,082</time>
<s>然后我去找领导</s>
<time>1114_00:33:30,442 --> 00:33:31,522</time>
<s>这个领导不说话</s>
<time>1115_00:33:31,882 --> 00:33:33,668</time>
<s>他说领导不响</s>
<time>1116_00:33:34,028 --> 00:33:35,468</time>
<s>领导不响实际上大家都明白了</s>
<time>1117_00:33:35,828 --> 00:33:36,548</time>
<s>有各种可能性</s>
<time>1118_00:33:37,628 --> 00:33:39,068</time>
<s>但是领导一个字都没说</s>
<time>1119_00:33:39,428 --> 00:33:40,148</time>
<s>那么就把这个氛围</s>
<time>1120_00:33:40,508 --> 00:33:41,588</time>
<s>立刻传递给大家</s>
<time>1121_00:33:43,028 --> 00:33:44,445</time>
<s>原来这个事情一点没结果</s>
<time>1122_00:33:44,805 --> 00:33:45,885</time>
<s>而且说不定还会出事</s>
<time>1123_00:33:46,245 --> 00:33:46,965</time>
<s>或者怎么样</s>
<time>1124_00:33:47,325 --> 00:33:49,125</time>
<s>所以它是“不响”这两个字</s>
<time>1125_00:33:49,485 --> 00:33:51,285</time>
<s>是上海人每天口头</s>
<time>1126_00:33:51,645 --> 00:33:53,085</time>
<s>不知道要说多少遍</s>
<time>1127_00:33:53,445 --> 00:33:54,518</time>
<s>习惯的一个词</s>
<time>1128_00:33:54,878 --> 00:33:56,678</time>
<s>你像北京的侃爷</s>
<time>1129_00:33:57,038 --> 00:33:58,478</time>
<s>马爷肯定很熟悉</s>
<time>1130_00:33:58,838 --> 00:33:59,558</time>
<s>那有的时候就是</s>
<time>1131_00:33:59,918 --> 00:34:00,638</time>
<s>甬说潜台词了</s>
<time>1132_00:34:00,998 --> 00:34:02,078</time>
<s>有时候甚至是想着对方</s>
<time>1133_00:34:02,438 --> 00:34:03,863</time>
<s>你让我说</s>
<time>1134_00:34:04,223 --> 00:34:04,943</time>
<s>我说对吧</s>
<time>1135_00:34:05,303 --> 00:34:05,663</time>
<s>都得说</s>
<time>1136_00:34:06,023 --> 00:34:07,103</time>
<s>你看你跟上海人很多时候</s>
<time>1137_00:34:07,463 --> 00:34:08,903</time>
<s>你就觉得他心里</s>
<time>1138_00:34:09,263 --> 00:34:09,623</time>
<s>你也不知道他想什么</s>
<time>1139_00:34:09,983 --> 00:34:10,343</time>
<s>但是他</s>
<time>1140_00:34:10,703 --> 00:34:11,063</time>
<s>他不响</s>
<time>1141_00:34:11,423 --> 00:34:12,143</time>
<s>他会意他不响</s>
<time>1142_00:34:12,503 --> 00:34:13,223</time>
<s>你举个例子说</s>
<time>1143_00:34:13,583 --> 00:34:16,081</time>
<s>我举一个简单的例子说</s>
<time>1144_00:34:16,441 --> 00:34:17,521</time>
<s>我刚才跟马老师也讲</s>
<time>1145_00:34:17,881 --> 00:34:19,321</time>
<s>我年轻的时候到东北</s>
<time>1146_00:34:19,681 --> 00:34:21,481</time>
<s>上海女孩子到了东北以后</s>
<time>1147_00:34:22,921 --> 00:34:24,353</time>
<s>北方有北京知青</s>
<time>1148_00:34:24,713 --> 00:34:25,433</time>
<s>齐齐哈尔知青</s>
<time>1149_00:34:25,793 --> 00:34:26,513</time>
<s>哈尔滨知青</s>
<time>1150_00:34:26,873 --> 00:34:29,753</time>
<s>一看上海的女孩那么漂亮</s>
<time>1151_00:34:30,113 --> 00:34:31,553</time>
<s>搭训跟人家谈恋爱</s>
<time>1152_00:34:32,993 --> 00:34:34,778</time>
<s>那在这个时候就可以描写</s>
<time>1153_00:34:35,138 --> 00:34:36,938</time>
<s>譬如上海这些男青年</s>
<time>1154_00:34:37,298 --> 00:34:37,658</time>
<s>就是在边上不响</s>
<time>1155_00:34:39,098 --> 00:34:39,458</time>
<s>就是不响</s>
<time>1156_00:34:39,818 --> 00:34:40,898</time>
<s>他不是说他笨蛋</s>
<time>1157_00:34:41,258 --> 00:34:41,618</time>
<s>他或者哑巴</s>
<time>1158_00:34:41,978 --> 00:34:44,475</time>
<s>他就是边上自己肚子里</s>
<time>1159_00:34:45,195 --> 00:34:46,635</time>
<s>盘算</s>
<time>1160_00:34:47,355 --> 00:34:49,155</time>
<s>因为北方的男青年</s>
<time>1161_00:34:49,515 --> 00:34:51,315</time>
<s>都是非常主动追求</s>
<time>1162_00:34:52,035 --> 00:34:53,115</time>
<s>但是上海的男青年呢</s>
<time>1163_00:34:53,475 --> 00:34:54,908</time>
<s>就是在边上看热闹那种</s>
<time>1164_00:34:55,268 --> 00:34:55,628</time>
<s>也不是看热闹</s>
<time>1165_00:34:55,988 --> 00:34:57,068</time>
<s>他就是不气</s>
<time>1166_00:34:57,428 --> 00:34:58,148</time>
<s>你不知道他心里想什么</s>
<time>1167_00:34:58,508 --> 00:34:59,228</time>
<s>文化因素</s>
<time>1168_00:34:59,588 --> 00:35:00,668</time>
<s>人家两个钟头</s>
<time>1169_00:35:01,028 --> 00:35:01,748</time>
<s>就搞定一个女孩子了</s>
<time>1170_00:35:02,108 --> 00:35:03,548</time>
<s>就是说如果你不跟我</s>
<time>1171_00:35:03,908 --> 00:35:04,613</time>
<s>那你不是吃亏吗</s>
<time>1172_00:35:06,053 --> 00:35:07,133</time>
<s>你在追女孩的战场上</s>
<time>1173_00:35:07,493 --> 00:35:08,213</time>
<s>你不是属于您了吗</s>
<time>1174_00:35:08,573 --> 00:35:10,013</time>
<s>不是的他不响他还有个意思</s>
<time>1175_00:35:10,373 --> 00:35:12,893</time>
<s>就是他在看笑话也说不定</s>
<time>1176_00:35:13,253 --> 00:35:13,973</time>
<s>对</s>
<time>1177_00:35:14,310 --> 00:35:16,470</time>
<s>所以我们当时上海知青</s>
<time>1178_00:35:16,830 --> 00:35:17,550</time>
<s>在东北的时候</s>
<time>1179_00:35:17,910 --> 00:35:18,270</time>
<s>我有一个最</s>
<time>1180_00:35:18,630 --> 00:35:20,430</time>
<s>我自己觉得失落的是什么</s>
<time>1181_00:35:20,790 --> 00:35:21,870</time>
<s>你比如说哈尔滨知青</s>
<time>1182_00:35:22,230 --> 00:35:24,030</time>
<s>他里头他们群落里边</s>
<time>1183_00:35:24,382 --> 00:35:25,822</time>
<s>最底层的一位</s>
<time>1184_00:35:26,182 --> 00:35:26,902</time>
<s>就是他们里边</s>
<time>1185_00:35:27,262 --> 00:35:27,622</time>
<s>可以随便骂他的</s>
<time>1186_00:35:29,062 --> 00:35:31,222</time>
<s>随便打随便骂都可以</s>
<time>1187_00:35:33,022 --> 00:35:34,807</time>
<s>你上海人不能动他</s>
<time>1188_00:35:35,167 --> 00:35:36,607</time>
<s>你们上海人如果有个人动他</s>
<time>1189_00:35:36,967 --> 00:35:38,047</time>
<s>一帮人上来打你</s>
<time>1190_00:35:39,487 --> 00:35:41,287</time>
<s>但是我们上海人呢</s>
<time>1191_00:35:41,647 --> 00:35:43,807</time>
<s>就是里边譬如有一个谁谁谁</s>
<time>1192_00:35:44,167 --> 00:35:45,247</time>
<s>没有那种集体性</s>
<time>1193_00:35:46,687 --> 00:35:47,047</time>
<s>有什么什么的</s>
<time>1194_00:35:47,767 --> 00:35:48,487</time>
<s>你被人打我们都不管</s>
<time>1195_00:35:48,847 --> 00:35:49,927</time>
<s>我们都不响</s>
<time>1196_00:35:50,287 --> 00:35:51,367</time>
<s>不响</s>
<time>1197_00:35:51,727 --> 00:35:52,447</time>
<s>这个就是我说的</s>
<time>1198_00:35:52,807 --> 00:35:54,247</time>
<s>是因为上海开埠以后</s>
<time>1199_00:35:54,599 --> 00:35:56,759</time>
<s>它把一个人的生存</s>
<time>1200_00:35:57,119 --> 00:35:59,279</time>
<s>就直接落实到你个人</s>
<time>1201_00:35:59,639 --> 00:36:01,079</time>
<s>你除了你个人之外不管</s>
<time>1202_00:36:01,439 --> 00:36:03,599</time>
<s>上海叫你关我啥事情</s>
<time>1203_00:36:03,959 --> 00:36:04,663</time>
<s>关我什么事情</s>
<time>1204_00:36:05,023 --> 00:36:06,463</time>
<s>对你真的发达国家的</s>
<time>1205_00:36:06,823 --> 00:36:08,623</time>
<s>也是邻居之间像陌生人一样</s>
<time>1206_00:36:08,983 --> 00:36:10,423</time>
<s>就自己管自己的</s>
<time>1207_00:36:10,783 --> 00:36:14,023</time>
<s>它没有一个集体性的行为</s>
<time>1208_00:36:14,383 --> 00:36:15,103</time>
<s>你比如说哈尔滨知青</s>
<time>1209_00:36:15,463 --> 00:36:16,183</time>
<s>那特别抱团的</s>
<time>1210_00:36:16,543 --> 00:36:16,903</time>
<s>是</s>
<time>1211_00:36:17,263 --> 00:36:17,983</time>
<s>你要欺负他一个人</s>
<time>1212_00:36:18,343 --> 00:36:19,783</time>
<s>那一堆人上来打你</s>
<time>1213_00:36:20,143 --> 00:36:20,503</time>
<s>我上大学的时候</s>
<time>1214_00:36:20,863 --> 00:36:22,663</time>
<s>就是有各种是那个同乡会</s>
<time>1215_00:36:23,023 --> 00:36:25,175</time>
<s>就是上海就搞不起来同乡会</s>
<time>1216_00:36:25,535 --> 00:36:26,975</time>
<s>就是反而它是有一个</s>
<time>1217_00:36:27,335 --> 00:36:28,415</time>
<s>个人的一个概念</s>
<time>1218_00:36:28,775 --> 00:36:29,855</time>
<s>你说这个不响</s>
<time>1219_00:36:30,215 --> 00:36:31,655</time>
<s>它其实也是一个效率</s>
<time>1220_00:36:32,015 --> 00:36:33,095</time>
<s>因为这一个事情可能</s>
<time>1221_00:36:33,455 --> 00:36:34,535</time>
<s>我说出来这个话以后</s>
<time>1222_00:36:34,879 --> 00:36:36,319</time>
<s>它可能会变得更麻烦</s>
<time>1223_00:36:36,679 --> 00:36:37,759</time>
<s>或者我不确定我说完这个事</s>
<time>1224_00:36:38,119 --> 00:36:38,839</time>
<s>结果会怎么样</s>
<time>1225_00:36:39,199 --> 00:36:39,919</time>
<s>我就不响</s>
<time>1226_00:36:40,279 --> 00:36:41,719</time>
<s>不响就等于是外交辞令</s>
<time>1227_00:36:42,079 --> 00:36:42,799</time>
<s>无可奉告</s>
<time>1228_00:36:43,159 --> 00:36:44,239</time>
<s>我觉得这个里边</s>
<time>1229_00:36:44,599 --> 00:36:45,319</time>
<s>你说完</s>
<time>1230_00:36:45,679 --> 00:36:46,399</time>
<s>然后还有一个字是</s>
<time>1231_00:36:46,759 --> 00:36:48,919</time>
<s>我跟老外打交道他们老说</s>
<time>1232_00:36:49,279 --> 00:36:49,639</time>
<s>我不知道这上海人</s>
<time>1233_00:36:49,999 --> 00:36:50,359</time>
<s>还是中国人都这样</s>
<time>1234_00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:51,799</time>
<s>我老说嗯</s>
<time>1235_00:36:52,159 --> 00:36:52,879</time>
<s>他说什么我说嗯</s>
<time>1236_00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:53,599</time>
<s>他说你这个嗯</s>
<time>1237_00:36:53,959 --> 00:36:54,679</time>
<s>到底是yes还是no呢</s>
<time>1238_00:36:56,111 --> 00:36:56,831</time>
<s>我说我就是嗯</s>
<time>1239_00:36:57,191 --> 00:36:57,911</time>
<s>就是我就表示</s>
<time>1240_00:36:58,271 --> 00:36:58,631</time>
<s>我知道这个事</s>
<time>1241_00:36:58,991 --> 00:37:01,511</time>
<s>我觉得我们之间应该有默契</s>
<time>1242_00:37:01,871 --> 00:37:02,591</time>
<s>这是中国文化</s>
<time>1243_00:37:02,951 --> 00:37:04,751</time>
<s>中国文化对西方人就是这点很烦</s>
<time>1244_00:37:05,095 --> 00:37:05,815</time>
<s>中国人就是嗯上海人就是不响</s>
<time>1245_00:37:06,175 --> 00:37:07,255</time>
<s>中国人就是</s>
<time>1246_00:37:07,615 --> 00:37:08,335</time>
<s>你比如说</s>
<time>1247_00:37:08,695 --> 00:37:10,135</time>
<s>说文涛</s>
<time>1248_00:37:10,495 --> 00:37:12,295</time>
<s>那个约你下月十五号</s>
<time>1249_00:37:12,655 --> 00:37:14,815</time>
<s>咱有一个局你来吧</s>
<time>1250_00:37:15,174 --> 00:37:16,974</time>
<s>你嗯了一声不代表你去</s>
<time>1251_00:37:17,334 --> 00:37:17,694</time>
<s>对啊</s>
<time>1252_00:37:18,054 --> 00:37:18,774</time>
<s>它含义非常复杂</s>
<time>1253_00:37:19,134 --> 00:37:20,214</time>
<s>这是中国文化的圆滑的地方</s>
<time>1254_00:37:20,574 --> 00:37:21,654</time>
<s>就像你微信发个笑脸</s>
<time>1255_00:37:22,014 --> 00:37:22,374</time>
<s>你也不知道是yes还是no</s>
<time>1256_00:37:22,734 --> 00:37:23,454</time>
<s>它是这样</s>
<time>1257_00:37:23,814 --> 00:37:25,246</time>
<s>就是因为我们还得谈到</s>
<time>1258_00:37:25,606 --> 00:37:26,326</time>
<s>这个小说上</s>
<time>1259_00:37:26,686 --> 00:37:27,766</time>
<s>因为说到这个方言</s>
<time>1260_00:37:28,126 --> 00:37:28,846</time>
<s>它这个方言中</s>
<time>1261_00:37:29,206 --> 00:37:30,646</time>
<s>上海话是不占便宜的</s>
<time>1262_00:37:31,006 --> 00:37:32,086</time>
<s>上海话是写不了小说的</s>
<time>1263_00:37:32,806 --> 00:37:33,526</time>
<s>是真的写不了</s>
<time>1264_00:37:34,246 --> 00:37:34,606</time>
<s>您用很多苏州话</s>
<time>1265_00:37:34,966 --> 00:37:37,470</time>
<s>这个我是职业编辑</s>
<time>1266_00:37:37,830 --> 00:37:38,550</time>
<s>我原来专门讲过</s>
<time>1267_00:37:38,910 --> 00:37:40,350</time>
<s>哪个方言写小说占便宜</s>
<time>1268_00:37:40,710 --> 00:37:41,790</time>
<s>中国有四大方言区</s>
<time>1269_00:37:42,150 --> 00:37:42,870</time>
<s>写小说占便宜</s>
<time>1270_00:37:43,230 --> 00:37:44,310</time>
<s>第一是北京方言区</s>
<time>1271_00:37:44,670 --> 00:37:46,109</time>
<s>第二是陕北方言区</s>
<time>1272_00:37:46,469 --> 00:37:47,189</time>
<s>湖南方言区</s>
<time>1273_00:37:47,549 --> 00:37:48,629</time>
<s>四川方言区</s>
<time>1274_00:37:48,989 --> 00:37:51,149</time>
<s>它的这些方言写到纸上</s>
<time>1275_00:37:51,509 --> 00:37:52,229</time>
<s>你是能看懂的</s>
<time>1276_00:37:52,589 --> 00:37:52,949</time>
<s>可以文字化</s>
<time>1277_00:37:53,309 --> 00:37:54,389</time>
<s>上海话是</s>
<time>1278_00:37:54,749 --> 00:37:55,821</time>
<s>就按照你那上海话</s>
<time>1279_00:37:56,181 --> 00:37:57,261</time>
<s>比如我最简单的事</s>
<time>1280_00:37:57,621 --> 00:37:57,981</time>
<s>我到上海</s>
<time>1281_00:37:58,341 --> 00:37:59,781</time>
<s>他们说吃大闸蟹</s>
<time>1282_00:38:00,141 --> 00:38:01,581</time>
<s>他们说“独闸蟹”</s>
<time>1283_00:38:01,941 --> 00:38:02,301</time>
<s>“独闸蟹</s>
<time>1284_00:38:02,661 --> 00:38:03,021</time>
<s>我说“独闸蟹”这仁字</s>
<time>1285_00:38:03,381 --> 00:38:04,101</time>
<s>你给我写出来</s>
<time>1286_00:38:04,461 --> 00:38:05,524</time>
<s>一写出来还是大闸蟹</s>
<time>1287_00:38:06,244 --> 00:38:09,124</time>
<s>就是它写出来就是大闸蟹</s>
<time>1288_00:38:09,484 --> 00:38:11,284</time>
<s>但是它叫“独闸蟹”</s>
<time>1289_00:38:11,644 --> 00:38:12,364</time>
<s>你这个</s>
<time>1290_00:38:12,724 --> 00:38:13,444</time>
<s>同字不同音吗</s>
<time>1291_00:38:13,804 --> 00:38:14,164</time>
<s>那不行了</s>
<time>1292_00:38:14,524 --> 00:38:17,403</time>
<s>它的音在整个的这个表达当中</s>
<time>1293_00:38:17,763 --> 00:38:18,123</time>
<s>你写到文字上</s>
<time>1294_00:38:18,483 --> 00:38:20,283</time>
<s>它那个韵律什么都没了</s>
<time>1295_00:38:20,643 --> 00:38:21,003</time>
<s>韵律没了</s>
