<time>1718_00:47:29,434 --> 00:47:31,594</time>
<s>人家不是让你感受这个</s>
<time>1719_00:47:31,954 --> 00:47:34,114</time>
<s>所以虽然很贵</s>
<time>1720_00:47:34,474 --> 00:47:35,554</time>
<s>就是那种体会</s>
<time>1721_00:47:35,914 --> 00:47:38,434</time>
<s>我觉得是就是非常值得的</s>
<time>1722_00:47:39,154 --> 00:47:40,215</time>
<s>您讲这个我就想起</s>
<time>1723_00:47:40,575 --> 00:47:41,655</time>
<s>她讲这个一期一会</s>
<time>1724_00:47:42,015 --> 00:47:43,455</time>
<s>这一期一会是这个</s>
<time>1725_00:47:43,815 --> 00:47:45,615</time>
<s>日本这个一个茶道历史上的</s>
<time>1726_00:47:45,975 --> 00:47:46,695</time>
<s>这么一句话</s>
<time>1727_00:47:47,055 --> 00:47:47,415</time>
<s>它就表示</s>
<time>1728_00:47:47,775 --> 00:47:48,495</time>
<s>这日本人</s>
<time>1729_00:47:48,855 --> 00:47:50,290</time>
<s>我还是说这个加藤周一</s>
<time>1730_00:47:50,650 --> 00:47:51,370</time>
<s>他说日本文化里</s>
<time>1731_00:47:51,730 --> 00:47:52,450</time>
<s>还有个什么特点呢</s>
<time>1732_00:47:52,810 --> 00:47:53,530</time>
<s>此岸性</s>
<time>1733_00:47:54,250 --> 00:47:56,050</time>
<s>此在就是他不重彼岸</s>
<time>1734_00:47:56,410 --> 00:47:57,850</time>
<s>他就是当下</s>
<time>1735_00:47:58,210 --> 00:47:59,638</time>
<s>就是这一下一期一会</s>
<time>1736_00:47:59,998 --> 00:48:01,078</time>
<s>这个圆桌散了</s>
<time>1737_00:48:01,438 --> 00:48:02,518</time>
<s>咱们就没有了</s>
<time>1738_00:48:02,878 --> 00:48:04,678</time>
<s>对吧就是只在当下</s>
<time>1739_00:48:05,038 --> 00:48:06,478</time>
<s>您讲这个就是</s>
<time>1740_00:48:06,838 --> 00:48:08,998</time>
<s>这个日本的茶圣千利休</s>
<time>1741_00:48:09,358 --> 00:48:10,058</time>
<s>千利休我去过</s>
<time>1742_00:48:10,418 --> 00:48:12,578</time>
<s>他那个特别有名的一个茶室</s>
<time>1743_00:48:12,938 --> 00:48:14,018</time>
<s>他当时实际是</s>
<time>1744_00:48:14,378 --> 00:48:15,818</time>
<s>服务于这个丰臣秀吉</s>
<time>1745_00:48:16,178 --> 00:48:17,258</time>
<s>最后他好像就是</s>
<time>1746_00:48:17,618 --> 00:48:18,338</time>
<s>被杀了还是死了</s>
<time>1747_00:48:18,698 --> 00:48:19,774</time>
<s>这个千利休</s>
<time>1748_00:48:20,134 --> 00:48:21,934</time>
<s>被逼着自杀</s>
<time>1749_00:48:22,294 --> 00:48:23,734</time>
<s>就是你知道像丰臣秀吉</s>
<time>1750_00:48:24,094 --> 00:48:26,614</time>
<s>这个属于这个他算幕府吧</s>
<time>1751_00:48:26,974 --> 00:48:29,134</time>
<s>他实际还是豪门气派对吧</s>
<time>1752_00:48:29,494 --> 00:48:29,841</time>
<s>对</s>
<time>1753_00:48:30,201 --> 00:48:32,361</time>
<s>然后这个千利休自己呢</s>
<time>1754_00:48:32,721 --> 00:48:33,441</time>
<s>他主张的这种</s>
<time>1755_00:48:33,801 --> 00:48:34,881</time>
<s>就是那种简陋</s>
<time>1756_00:48:35,241 --> 00:48:37,761</time>
<s>就是他的那个茶室</s>
<time>1757_00:48:38,121 --> 00:48:39,201</time>
<s>简素</s>
<time>1758_00:48:39,561 --> 00:48:39,901</time>
<s>啥也没有</s>
<time>1759_00:48:40,261 --> 00:48:41,701</time>
<s>就是小的</s>
<time>1760_00:48:42,061 --> 00:48:43,501</time>
<s>就是他们叫二帖</s>
<time>1761_00:48:43,861 --> 00:48:45,301</time>
<s>一帖半</s>
<time>1762_00:48:45,661 --> 00:48:46,021</time>
<s>然后进的那个门</s>
<time>1763_00:48:46,381 --> 00:48:47,101</time>
<s>榻榻米</s>
<time>1764_00:48:47,461 --> 00:48:48,181</time>
<s>就咱们这桌子那么高</s>
<time>1765_00:48:48,541 --> 00:48:49,621</time>
<s>你得像狗一样</s>
<time>1766_00:48:49,977 --> 00:48:50,337</time>
<s>必须的</s>
<time>1767_00:48:50,697 --> 00:48:51,417</time>
<s>爬进去</s>
<time>1768_00:48:51,777 --> 00:48:54,657</time>
<s>然后这个就是这个一根旧的木头</s>
<time>1769_00:48:55,017 --> 00:48:56,097</time>
<s>一个柱子在中间</s>
<time>1770_00:48:56,457 --> 00:48:57,177</time>
<s>挂着一个很简单的画</s>
<time>1771_00:48:57,897 --> 00:48:59,337</time>
<s>··～主要是那个墙圆桌派[看理想]</s>
<time>1772_00:48:59,697 --> 00:49:00,044</time>
<s>···那个墙我跟你说圆桌派[看理想]</s>
<time>1773_00:49:00,404 --> 00:49:00,764</time>
<s>·就跟咱们农村那个灶台圆桌派[看理想]</s>
<time>1774_00:49:01,124 --> 00:49:02,204</time>
<s>就跟咱们农村那个灶台</s>
<time>1775_00:49:02,564 --> 00:49:02,924</time>
<s>土墙一样</s>
<time>1776_00:49:03,284 --> 00:49:04,004</time>
<s>不是而且不光是土墙</s>
<time>1777_00:49:04,364 --> 00:49:07,244</time>
<s>灶台上熏黑了一样</s>
<time>1778_00:49:07,604 --> 00:49:09,044</time>
<s>那个一种黑不溜秋的</s>
<time>1779_00:49:09,404 --> 00:49:11,184</time>
<s>又透着点土那个</s>
<time>1780_00:49:11,544 --> 00:49:12,624</time>
<s>你知道我为什么去</s>
<time>1781_00:49:12,984 --> 00:49:14,784</time>
<s>因为我一个台湾做茶的朋友</s>
<time>1782_00:49:15,144 --> 00:49:15,864</time>
<s>也挺有钱</s>
<time>1783_00:49:16,224 --> 00:49:18,024</time>
<s>非要做这个跟他一模一样的</s>
<time>1784_00:49:18,384 --> 00:49:18,744</time>
<s>茶室</s>
<time>1785_00:49:19,104 --> 00:49:20,179</time>
<s>日本有公司</s>
<time>1786_00:49:20,539 --> 00:49:21,979</time>
<s>就是说声称能仿制</s>
<time>1787_00:49:22,339 --> 00:49:23,059</time>
<s>但是你知道吗</s>
<time>1788_00:49:23,419 --> 00:49:23,779</time>
<s>他告诉我</s>
<time>1789_00:49:24,139 --> 00:49:24,499</time>
<s>熏不出来</s>
<time>1790_00:49:24,859 --> 00:49:26,299</time>
<s>他这个计划做不下去了</s>
<time>1791_00:49:26,659 --> 00:49:27,379</time>
<s>因为他也很讲究</s>
<time>1792_00:49:27,739 --> 00:49:30,246</time>
<s>日本的公司说这真的就跟</s>
<time>1793_00:49:30,606 --> 00:49:32,046</time>
<s>那个熏黑的那个效果</s>
<time>1794_00:49:32,406 --> 00:49:33,126</time>
<s>就是这个泥墙</s>
<time>1795_00:49:33,486 --> 00:49:34,566</time>
<s>他怎么看</s>
<time>1796_00:49:34,926 --> 00:49:36,006</time>
<s>就是跟千利休的那个</s>
<time>1797_00:49:36,366 --> 00:49:36,726</time>
<s>对</s>
<time>1798_00:49:37,086 --> 00:49:37,446</time>
<s>不一样</s>
<time>1799_00:49:37,806 --> 00:49:38,526</time>
<s>你别看那个</s>
<time>1800_00:49:38,886 --> 00:49:39,606</time>
<s>就是他就</s>
<time>1801_00:49:39,966 --> 00:49:40,666</time>
<s>然后我跟你说</s>
<time>1802_00:49:41,026 --> 00:49:41,746</time>
<s>就是就像您说的</s>
<time>1803_00:49:42,106 --> 00:49:44,266</time>
<s>午后的阳光进来一点点</s>
<time>1804_00:49:44,626 --> 00:49:45,346</time>
<s>就是天井</s>
<time>1805_00:49:45,706 --> 00:49:46,066</time>
<s>基本都是阴的</s>
<time>1806_00:49:46,426 --> 00:49:46,786</time>
<s>茶室必须有天井</s>
<time>1807_00:49:47,146 --> 00:49:47,506</time>
<s>对</s>
<time>1808_00:49:47,866 --> 00:49:48,946</time>
<s>然后就是每个时间的角度</s>
<time>1809_00:49:49,306 --> 00:49:49,666</time>
<s>这个</s>
<time>1810_00:49:50,381 --> 00:49:50,741</time>
<s>跪在那儿你</s>
<time>1811_00:49:51,101 --> 00:49:52,181</time>
<s>这个茶道主人会给你讲</s>
<time>1812_00:49:52,541 --> 00:49:53,981</time>
<s>什么时候光线到什么</s>
<time>1813_00:49:54,341 --> 00:49:55,781</time>
<s>对那种幽暗那种感觉</s>
<time>1814_00:49:56,141 --> 00:49:56,861</time>
<s>然后就是所有的茶室</s>
<time>1815_00:49:57,221 --> 00:49:57,581</time>
<s>就是您说那个</s>
<time>1816_00:49:57,941 --> 00:49:59,741</time>
<s>其实撞墙那个</s>
<time>1817_00:50:00,101 --> 00:50:00,808</time>
<s>那个有的时候这门</s>
<time>1818_00:50:01,168 --> 00:50:02,248</time>
<s>实际上是故意的</s>
<time>1819_00:50:02,608 --> 00:50:02,968</time>
<s>为什么呢</s>
<time>1820_00:50:03,328 --> 00:50:04,048</time>
<s>就是让你到这了以后</s>
<time>1821_00:50:04,408 --> 00:50:05,848</time>
<s>要有敬畏之心</s>
<time>1822_00:50:06,208 --> 00:50:07,288</time>
<s>茶室你进去了以后</s>
<time>1823_00:50:07,648 --> 00:50:08,728</time>
<s>过去武士出征之前</s>
<time>1824_00:50:09,088 --> 00:50:10,168</time>
<s>一定要进茶室最后喝茶</s>
<time>1825_00:50:10,507 --> 00:50:10,867</time>
<s>为什么</s>
<time>1826_00:50:11,227 --> 00:50:12,667</time>
<s>你最后一低头的时候进去</s>
<time>1827_00:50:13,027 --> 00:50:14,107</time>
<s>就是说你所有的</s>
<time>1828_00:50:14,467 --> 00:50:15,187</time>
<s>你自我的东西都没有了</s>
<time>1829_00:50:16,627 --> 00:50:16,987</time>
<s>谦卑</s>
<time>1830_00:50:17,347 --> 00:50:18,427</time>
<s>你谦卑所以要敬畏</s>
<time>1831_00:50:18,787 --> 00:50:20,227</time>
<s>你看日本的神社</s>
<time>1832_00:50:20,582 --> 00:50:22,022</time>
<s>你一进去都是那小碎石</s>
<time>1833_00:50:22,382 --> 00:50:23,462</time>
<s>碎石头子那路是不是</s>
<time>1834_00:50:23,822 --> 00:50:24,902</time>
<s>就是让你进入</s>
<time>1835_00:50:25,262 --> 00:50:26,702</time>
<s>你现在进入这个境界</s>
<time>1836_00:50:27,062 --> 00:50:27,422</time>
<s>和你原来的</s>
<time>1837_00:50:27,782 --> 00:50:29,582</time>
<s>在世俗的时候不一样了</s>
<time>1838_00:50:29,942 --> 00:50:30,649</time>
<s>你现在要踩着</s>
<time>1839_00:50:31,009 --> 00:50:33,889</time>
<s>一听碎石你自己就要肃然起敬</s>
<time>1840_00:50:34,249 --> 00:50:35,689</time>
<s>所以他是做的</s>
<time>1841_00:50:36,049 --> 00:50:37,129</time>
<s>不断地让你各个事情</s>
<time>1842_00:50:37,489 --> 00:50:39,289</time>
<s>都要有敬畏之感</s>
<time>1843_00:50:39,649 --> 00:50:41,788</time>
<s>这个是日本民族的一个特点</s>
<time>1844_00:50:42,148 --> 00:50:42,508</time>
<s>你知道吗</s>
<time>1845_00:50:42,868 --> 00:50:43,588</time>
<s>任何事情任何人</s>
<time>1846_00:50:43,948 --> 00:50:46,828</time>
<s>讲究礼仪化程序化被格式化</s>
<time>1847_00:50:47,188 --> 00:50:49,348</time>
<s>然后像包括唤起你的敬畏感</s>
<time>1848_00:50:49,708 --> 00:50:50,782</time>
<s>唤起你的敬业感</s>
<time>1849_00:50:51,142 --> 00:50:51,502</time>
<s>这是它的特点</s>
<time>1850_00:50:51,862 --> 00:50:52,222</time>
<s>但是我再问一个</s>
<time>1851_00:50:53,302 --> 00:50:53,662</time>
<s>他们虚伪吗</s>
<time>1852_00:50:55,462 --> 00:50:57,982</time>
<s>如果你讲一旦不能够把内心</s>
<time>1853_00:50:58,342 --> 00:50:58,702</time>
<s>在这个社会上</s>
<time>1854_00:50:59,062 --> 00:51:00,142</time>
<s>不能够表现出来的时候</s>
<time>1855_00:51:00,502 --> 00:51:00,849</time>
<s>那不就是虚伪吗</s>
<time>1856_00:51:01,929 --> 00:51:02,289</time>
<s>你不虚伪不行嘛</s>
<time>1857_00:51:04,089 --> 00:51:05,889</time>
<s>社会要求你是这样的虚伪</s>
<time>1858_00:51:06,249 --> 00:51:07,329</time>
<s>所以刚才我还在跟马老师讲</s>
<time>1859_00:51:07,689 --> 00:51:08,769</time>
<s>我们在说在日本</s>
<time>1860_00:51:09,129 --> 00:51:10,209</time>
<s>在日本的时候</s>
<time>1861_00:51:10,569 --> 00:51:10,908</time>
<s>你如果想了解</s>
<time>1862_00:51:11,268 --> 00:51:12,348</time>
<s>日本社会的时候</s>
<time>1863_00:51:12,708 --> 00:51:13,068</time>
<s>靠跟日本人聊天</s>
<time>1864_00:51:13,428 --> 00:51:13,788</time>
<s>是聊不出来的</s>
<time>1865_00:51:15,588 --> 00:51:17,028</time>
<s>你想听的他根本俩人</s>
<time>1866_00:51:17,388 --> 00:51:18,108</time>
<s>说不到一块的</s>
<time>1867_00:51:18,468 --> 00:51:19,908</time>
<s>你看想了解日本社会</s>
<time>1868_00:51:20,268 --> 00:51:20,982</time>
<s>只能去读日本的书</s>
<time>1869_00:51:22,422 --> 00:51:23,862</time>
<s>而日本人在写书的时候</s>
<time>1870_00:51:24,222 --> 00:51:25,662</time>
<s>就像谷崎润一郎这样的</s>
<time>1871_00:51:26,022 --> 00:51:27,822</time>
<s>他把心底里所有这种被压抑的</s>
<time>1872_00:51:28,182 --> 00:51:29,622</time>
<s>他宣泄一般的</s>
<time>1873_00:51:29,982 --> 00:51:31,049</time>
<s>他可以把它写出来</s>
<time>1874_00:51:31,409 --> 00:51:32,129</time>
<s>包括那个太宰治</s>
<time>1875_00:51:32,849 --> 00:51:33,929</time>
<s>是吧想死的心都写出来</s>
<time>1876_00:51:34,289 --> 00:51:35,009</time>
<s>他跟五个女人要自杀的那个是不是</s>
<time>1877_00:51:35,369 --> 00:51:35,729</time>
<s>「他跟五个女人要自杀的那个是不是圆桌派[看理想]</s>
<time>1878_00:51:36,089 --> 00:51:36,449</time>
<s>对 圆桌派[看理想]</s>
<time>1879_00:51:36,809 --> 00:51:37,529</time>
<s>「跟五个女人圆桌派[循理想]</s>
<time>1880_00:51:37,889 --> 00:51:38,609</time>
<s>一会儿自杀了</s>
<time>1881_00:51:38,969 --> 00:51:39,689</time>
<s>一会儿让人家自杀</s>
<time>1882_00:51:40,049 --> 00:51:40,769</time>
<s>但是他就是要</s>
<time>1883_00:51:41,108 --> 00:51:42,188</time>
<s>你就只有到了日本</s>
<time>1884_00:51:42,548 --> 00:51:43,268</time>
<s>其实我老说</s>
<time>1885_00:51:43,628 --> 00:51:44,708</time>
<s>大家说日本文化精致之美</s>
<time>1886_00:51:45,068 --> 00:51:46,148</time>
<s>这个那个说了很多</s>
<time>1887_00:51:46,508 --> 00:51:47,948</time>
<s>其实我就说日本文化里边</s>
<time>1888_00:51:48,308 --> 00:51:49,388</time>
<s>最重要的特点就是</s>
<time>1889_00:51:49,748 --> 00:51:51,902</time>
<s>就是把你不能够说出来的东西</s>
<time>1890_00:51:52,262 --> 00:51:53,702</time>
<s>不能够宣泄出来的东西</s>
<time>1891_00:51:54,062 --> 00:51:54,782</time>
<s>它给你安排出来了</s>
<time>1892_00:51:56,222 --> 00:51:56,942</time>
<s>所以日本文化</s>
<time>1893_00:51:57,302 --> 00:51:58,382</time>
<s>是一个很好的排欲沟</s>
<time>1894_00:51:59,822 --> 00:52:00,182</time>
<s>排欲沟</s>
<time>1895_00:52:00,542 --> 00:52:03,048</time>
<s>就是排除欲望的一个沟</s>
<time>1896_00:52:03,408 --> 00:52:04,488</time>
<s>他们欲望还少啊</s>
<time>1897_00:52:04,848 --> 00:52:05,568</time>
<s>对它这个</s>
<time>1898_00:52:05,928 --> 00:52:07,728</time>
<s>不是它有沟让你排出去</s>
<time>1899_00:52:09,888 --> 00:52:10,248</time>
<s>对</s>
<time>1900_00:52:10,608 --> 00:52:11,667</time>
<s>蒋老师说的</s>
<time>1901_00:52:12,027 --> 00:52:13,467</time>
<s>因为他在日本待时间长了</s>
<time>1902_00:52:14,187 --> 00:52:15,627</time>
<s>不能随便说您半个日本人</s>
<time>1903_00:52:15,987 --> 00:52:17,067</time>
<s>但是你对日本文化了解</s>
<time>1904_00:52:17,427 --> 00:52:18,867</time>
<s>肯定比我们都深刻得多</s>
<time>1905_00:52:19,227 --> 00:52:20,667</time>
<s>但是我们去看日本文化的时候</s>
<time>1906_00:52:21,027 --> 00:52:22,101</time>
<s>有时候会碰见一些事</s>
<time>1907_00:52:22,461 --> 00:52:23,541</time>
<s>你比如说我做的事</s>
<time>1908_00:52:23,901 --> 00:52:24,621</time>
<s>我正好去日本</s>
<time>1909_00:52:24,981 --> 00:52:26,421</time>
<s>去定做一套茶具</s>
<time>1910_00:52:26,781 --> 00:52:28,941</time>
<s>就找了一些日本的这个老师傅</s>
<time>1911_00:52:29,301 --> 00:52:30,381</time>
<s>我做了一套九宫壶</s>
<time>1912_00:52:30,741 --> 00:52:32,167</time>
<s>其中有一把壶</s>
<time>1913_00:52:32,527 --> 00:52:33,607</time>
<s>有一件事对我教育很深</s>
<time>1914_00:52:35,047 --> 00:52:35,407</time>
<s>这个壶是这样</s>
<time>1915_00:52:35,767 --> 00:52:36,487</time>
<s>他把它烧出来以后</s>
<time>1916_00:52:36,847 --> 00:52:37,927</time>
<s>就像这样的茶壶</s>
<time>1917_00:52:38,287 --> 00:52:38,647</time>
<s>烧出来以后</s>
<time>1918_00:52:39,007 --> 00:52:40,087</time>
<s>它有第二道工序</s>
<time>1919_00:52:40,447 --> 00:52:41,506</time>
<s>叫藻挂</s>
<time>1920_00:52:41,866 --> 00:52:43,666</time>
<s>就是把海草晾干了</s>
<time>1921_00:52:44,026 --> 00:52:45,106</time>
<s>再绑到这个壶上</s>
<time>1922_00:52:45,466 --> 00:52:45,826</time>
<s>再烧一遍</s>
<time>1923_00:52:46,186 --> 00:52:48,346</time>
<s>然后上面有星星点点的那种釉质</s>
<time>1924_00:52:48,706 --> 00:52:49,066</time>
<s>特别漂亮</s>
<time>1925_00:52:50,146 --> 00:52:50,506</time>
<s>这个事</s>
<time>1926_00:52:50,866 --> 00:52:51,939</time>
<s>这老头七十多岁了</s>
<time>1927_00:52:52,299 --> 00:52:53,379</time>
<s>大师级的</s>
<time>1928_00:52:53,739 --> 00:52:55,179</time>
<s>那你海草不就海里的吗</s>
<time>1929_00:52:55,539 --> 00:52:56,259</time>
<s>你找个人捞出来晾干了</s>
<time>1930_00:52:56,619 --> 00:52:57,699</time>
<s>你一绑上就行了</s>
<time>1931_00:52:58,059 --> 00:52:58,779</time>
<s>不老头非得亲自</s>
<time>1932_00:52:59,139 --> 00:53:00,939</time>
<s>去到海边去找这个草去</s>
<time>1933_00:53:01,299 --> 00:53:04,165</time>
<s>其实当时就那个他不管时间的</s>
<time>1934_00:53:04,525 --> 00:53:04,885</time>
<s>我们很着急</s>
<time>1935_00:53:05,245 --> 00:53:05,965</time>
<s>就是你不干完了这个活</s>
<time>1936_00:53:06,325 --> 00:53:07,405</time>
<s>这个所有的事都干不了</s>
<time>1937_00:53:08,845 --> 00:53:10,285</time>
<s>说是找人帮他去捞草去吧</s>
<time>1938_00:53:10,645 --> 00:53:12,784</time>
<s>不行七十多岁自己上海边捞回草</s>
<time>1939_00:53:13,144 --> 00:53:14,224</time>
<s>捞回草晾干</s>
<time>1940_00:53:14,584 --> 00:53:15,304</time>
<s>晾干你找个下手</s>
<time>1941_00:53:15,664 --> 00:53:16,744</time>
<s>帮你绑到这壶上</s>
<time>1942_00:53:17,104 --> 00:53:17,824</time>
<s>他把那个草绑到壶上</s>
<time>1943_00:53:18,184 --> 00:53:19,264</time>
<s>就跟一个鸟窝似的</s>
<time>1944_00:53:19,624 --> 00:53:19,984</time>
<s>就是一个壶这么大</s>
<time>1945_00:53:20,344 --> 00:53:20,704</time>
<s>绑完这么大</s>
<time>1946_00:53:21,064 --> 00:53:22,497</time>
<s>一点一点地绑上去</s>
<time>1947_00:53:22,857 --> 00:53:23,217</time>
<s>他非得自己绑</s>
<time>1948_00:53:24,657 --> 00:53:25,377</time>
<s>绑完了再去烧</s>
<time>1949_00:53:25,737 --> 00:53:26,457</time>
<s>就是所有的过程</s>
<time>1950_00:53:26,817 --> 00:53:28,257</time>
<s>不假任何人之手</s>
<time>1951_00:53:28,617 --> 00:53:29,337</time>
<s>完全是自律</s>
<time>1952_00:53:29,697 --> 00:53:30,777</time>
<s>对着内心说话</s>
<time>1953_00:53:31,843 --> 00:53:32,563</time>
<s>对着内心</s>
<time>1954_00:53:32,923 --> 00:53:34,003</time>
<s>这个太厉害了</s>
<time>1955_00:53:34,363 --> 00:53:36,163</time>
<s>这个我们在中国所有的工匠</s>
<time>1956_00:53:36,523 --> 00:53:37,243</time>
<s>都做不到这一点</s>
<time>1957_00:53:37,603 --> 00:53:38,323</time>
<s>他肯定</s>
<time>1958_00:53:38,683 --> 00:53:39,403</time>
<s>今儿这徒弟明儿那个</s>
<time>1959_00:53:39,763 --> 00:53:40,123</time>
<s>他就所有的事</s>
<time>1960_00:53:40,483 --> 00:53:41,563</time>
<s>最后大师就剩一个壳</s>
<time>1961_00:53:41,901 --> 00:53:42,261</time>
<s>盖一个章完事</s>
<time>1962_00:53:43,341 --> 00:53:43,701</time>
<s>马爷说这个</s>
<time>1963_00:53:44,061 --> 00:53:45,141</time>
<s>我们前两天刚去采访了一个</s>
<time>1964_00:53:45,501 --> 00:53:46,581</time>
<s>冈山县一个备前烧的</s>
<time>1965_00:53:46,941 --> 00:53:47,301</time>
<s>一个人间国宝</s>
<time>1966_00:53:48,381 --> 00:53:48,741</time>
<s>他跟我讲</s>
<time>1967_00:53:49,101 --> 00:53:50,181</time>
<s>他说我的所有程序</s>
<time>1968_00:53:50,541 --> 00:53:51,621</time>
<s>在做的时候我要和它说话</s>
<time>1969_00:53:53,415 --> 00:53:55,215</time>
<s>必须和我烧的这个陶器</s>
<time>1970_00:53:55,575 --> 00:53:57,375</time>
<s>这个制器我们俩一直在</s>
<time>1971_00:53:57,735 --> 00:53:59,535</time>
<s>从我一开始弄这个泥土的时候</s>
<time>1972_00:53:59,895 --> 00:54:00,975</time>
<s>我就跟它聊天</s>
<time>1973_00:54:01,335 --> 00:54:02,040</time>
<s>我就是这么跟它聊着</s>
<time>1974_00:54:02,400 --> 00:54:03,840</time>
<s>包括它到进去烧窑的时候</s>
<time>1975_00:54:04,200 --> 00:54:04,920</time>
<s>我在外边我等</s>
<time>1976_00:54:05,280 --> 00:54:06,360</time>
<s>我说我在等着你</s>
<time>1977_00:54:06,720 --> 00:54:07,800</time>
<s>一会儿你会很好地出来</s>
<time>1978_00:54:08,160 --> 00:54:10,320</time>
<s>出来以后非常感谢你</s>
<time>1979_00:54:10,680 --> 00:54:11,400</time>
<s>你受了这么多苦了</s>
<time>1980_00:54:11,760 --> 00:54:12,818</time>
<s>你今天就跟我在一起</s>
<time>1981_00:54:13,178 --> 00:54:13,898</time>
<s>他是这个感觉</s>
<time>1982_00:54:14,978 --> 00:54:16,418</time>
<s>所以他在卖一个二手车废车</s>
<time>1983_00:54:16,778 --> 00:54:17,858</time>
<s>他卖掉的时候</s>
<time>1984_00:54:18,218 --> 00:54:19,298</time>
<s>他要给这车翰</s>
<time>1985_00:54:19,658 --> 00:54:21,098</time>
<s>感谢你陪了我这么多年是吧</s>
<time>1986_00:54:21,458 --> 00:54:22,892</time>
<s>你辛苦了现在我送你走</s>
<time>1987_00:54:24,332 --> 00:54:24,692</time>
<s>这也是</s>
<time>1988_00:54:25,052 --> 00:54:25,772</time>
<s>我们卖二手车</s>
<time>1989_00:54:26,132 --> 00:54:27,572</time>
<s>就是先把表调了</s>
<time>1990_00:54:27,932 --> 00:54:29,372</time>
<s>就是不感谢这个事</s>
<time>1991_00:54:29,732 --> 00:54:30,092</time>
<s>对</s>
<time>1992_00:54:31,532 --> 00:54:32,957</time>
<s>你把公里数先调了</s>
<time>1993_00:54:33,317 --> 00:54:34,037</time>
<s>方舟讲讲</s>
<time>1994_00:54:34,397 --> 00:54:35,837</time>
<s>就是之前那唐招提寺</s>
<time>1995_00:54:36,197 --> 00:54:37,277</time>
<s>他们修那个屋顶</s>
<time>1996_00:54:37,637 --> 00:54:38,717</time>
<s>是木头的屋顶</s>
<time>1997_00:54:39,077 --> 00:54:39,797</time>
<s>他们挑木头的</s>
<time>1998_00:54:40,157 --> 00:54:41,957</time>
<s>专门有一个挑木头师</s>
<time>1999_00:54:42,295 --> 00:54:43,735</time>
<s>就是他要跟每个木头说话</s>
<time>2000_00:54:44,095 --> 00:54:45,535</time>
<s>说看看它适不适合</s>
<time>2001_00:54:45,895 --> 00:54:49,135</time>
<s>来当作挑屋顶的木头</s>
<time>2002_00:54:49,495 --> 00:54:49,855</time>
<s>他一定要选择</s>
<time>2003_00:54:50,215 --> 00:54:51,295</time>
<s>最合适的那个木头</s>
<time>2004_00:54:51,655 --> 00:54:53,448</time>
<s>那个木头也愿意被做成屋顶</s>
<time>2005_00:54:53,808 --> 00:54:55,248</time>
<s>这个也跟物哀有关</s>
<time>2006_00:54:55,968 --> 00:54:57,048</time>
<s>跟东方文化有关</s>
<time>2007_00:54:57,408 --> 00:54:58,128</time>
<s>就是万物有灵</s>
<time>2008_00:54:58,488 --> 00:54:59,928</time>
<s>就是你觉得这个东西</s>
<time>2009_00:55:00,288 --> 00:55:02,433</time>
<s>物和人都是一体的</s>
<time>2010_00:55:02,793 --> 00:55:05,313</time>
<s>所以其实就马爷刚才讲这个</s>
<time>2011_00:55:05,673 --> 00:55:06,393</time>
<s>咱们一般讲俗了</s>
<time>2012_00:55:06,753 --> 00:55:08,193</time>
<s>就讲什么匠人精神</s>
<time>2013_00:55:08,553 --> 00:55:09,633</time>
<s>我不是说吹我自己</s>
<time>2014_00:55:09,993 --> 00:55:10,353</time>
<s>你看我也剪片子</s>
<time>2015_00:55:10,713 --> 00:55:12,491</time>
<s>是我的一个困惑</s>
<time>2016_00:55:12,851 --> 00:55:13,571</time>
<s>然后我为我自己</s>
<time>2017_00:55:13,931 --> 00:55:15,371</time>
<s>找到的一个解释</s>
<time>2018_00:55:15,731 --> 00:55:16,811</time>
<s>就是后来我发现</s>
<time>2019_00:55:17,171 --> 00:55:18,251</time>
<s>。</s><s>我跟这个剪辑师剪剪剪</s>
<time>2020_00:55:19,331 --> 00:55:21,851</time>
<s>他就说其实我们现在</s>
<time>2021_00:55:22,211 --> 00:55:24,364</time>
<s>弄的这个一顿两帧</s>
<time>2022_00:55:24,724 --> 00:55:26,164</time>
<s>他说我们这个熬夜</s>
<time>2023_00:55:26,524 --> 00:55:28,324</time>
<s>我们千的百分之五十的事</s>
<time>2024_00:55:28,684 --> 00:55:31,564</time>
<s>还少说了都不是观众能感觉到的</s>
<time>2025_00:55:31,924 --> 00:55:32,284</time>
<s>感觉不到</s>
<time>2026_00:55:32,629 --> 00:55:35,149</time>
<s>那么你能告诉我这是为什么吗</s>
<time>2027_00:55:35,509 --> 00:55:36,589</time>
<s>最后我想来想去</s>
<time>2028_00:55:36,949 --> 00:55:39,109</time>
<s>只能用信仰来解释</s>
<time>2029_00:55:39,469 --> 00:55:40,549</time>
<s>没有我不这么做</s>
<time>2030_00:55:40,909 --> 00:55:42,686</time>
<s>观众也什么也看不出来</s>
<time>2031_00:55:43,046 --> 00:55:44,846</time>
<s>但是你只能说这是一种</s>
<time>2032_00:55:45,206 --> 00:55:47,006</time>
<s>你只能归结于这是一种信仰吧</s>
<time>2033_00:55:47,366 --> 00:55:48,086</time>
<s>你不这么弄一下</s>
<time>2034_00:55:48,446 --> 00:55:51,686</time>
<s>你就觉得对不起你自己</s>
<time>2035_00:55:52,046 --> 00:55:52,759</time>
<s>而且我觉得日本社会</s>
<time>2036_00:55:53,119 --> 00:55:53,479</time>
<s>这些信仰特别强</s>
<time>2037_00:55:53,839 --> 00:55:54,559</time>
<s>因为我特别喜欢日本一个作家</s>
<time>2038_00:55:54,919 --> 00:55:55,999</time>
<s>叫远藤周作</s>
<time>2039_00:55:56,359 --> 00:55:57,799</time>
<s>他是一个日本少见的</s>
<time>2040_00:55:58,159 --> 00:55:59,239</time>
<s>基督教的一个作家</s>
<time>2041_00:55:59,599 --> 00:56:00,319</time>
<s>他写宗教</s>
<time>2042_00:56:00,679 --> 00:56:01,759</time>
<s>他就是说这个</s>
<time>2043_00:56:02,119 --> 00:56:03,184</time>
<s>有一篇有一个小说很经典</s>
<time>2044_00:56:03,544 --> 00:56:04,264</time>
<s>叫《沉默》</s>
<time>2045_00:56:04,624 --> 00:56:04,984</time>
<s>s后来被拍成电影圆桌派[看理想]</s>
<time>2046_00:56:05,344 --> 00:56:06,424</time>
<s>s他就是说基督教圆桌派[看理想]</s>
<time>2047_00:56:06,784 --> 00:56:07,504</time>
<s>就是在日本这个地方</s>
<time>2048_00:56:07,864 --> 00:56:08,944</time>
<s>开不出花来</s>
<time>2049_00:56:09,304 --> 00:56:10,024</time>
<s>就是它那个本土性</s>
<time>2050_00:56:10,384 --> 00:56:11,824</time>
<s>可能无论是活在当下</s>
<time>2051_00:56:12,184 --> 00:56:13,601</time>
<s>不相信彼岸还是怎么样</s>
<time>2052_00:56:13,961 --> 00:56:15,041</time>
<s>就让他没有办法</s>
<time>2053_00:56:15,401 --> 00:56:16,481</time>
<s>去信别的宗教</s>
<time>2054_00:56:16,841 --> 00:56:17,921</time>
<s>所以他写那个《沉默》</s>
<time>2055_00:56:18,281 --> 00:56:19,361</time>
<s>非常非常地悲观</s>
<time>2056_00:56:19,721 --> 00:56:20,801</time>
<s>就是信自己</s>
<time>2057_00:56:21,161 --> 00:56:21,881</time>
<s>他那个小说我知道</s>
<time>2058_00:56:22,241 --> 00:56:23,313</time>
<s>但是他那个说法是不对的</s>
<time>2059_00:56:23,673 --> 00:56:25,473</time>
<s>因为基督教进入到了日本以后</s>
<time>2060_00:56:25,833 --> 00:56:26,913</time>
<s>特别九州的时候</s>
<time>2061_00:56:27,273 --> 00:56:29,433</time>
<s>他是直接是奔着颠覆政府走的</s>
<time>2062_00:56:29,793 --> 00:56:31,233</time>
<s>所以就是颠覆幕府走的</s>
<time>2063_00:56:31,593 --> 00:56:33,738</time>
<s>所以幕府才会彻底地去镇压它</s>
<time>2064_00:56:34,098 --> 00:56:34,818</time>
<s>那照您看来</s>
<time>2065_00:56:35,178 --> 00:56:35,898</time>
<s>您在日本住这么多年了</s>
<time>2066_00:56:36,258 --> 00:56:39,498</time>
<s>您觉得他们的这个缺点是什么呢</s>
<time>2067_00:56:39,858 --> 00:56:40,578</time>
<s>缺点就是咱们几个</s>
<time>2068_00:56:40,938 --> 00:56:41,298</time>
<s>刚才说那个暖味</s>
<time>2069_00:56:43,075 --> 00:56:43,435</time>
<s>就是你不知道</s>
<time>2070_00:56:43,795 --> 00:56:46,315</time>
<s>他哪个是真心话你知道吧</s>
<time>2071_00:56:46,675 --> 00:56:48,475</time>
<s>你托不准他最后的事情</s>
<time>2072_00:56:50,635 --> 00:56:51,715</time>
<s>而且你永远不要</s>
<time>2073_00:56:52,075 --> 00:56:52,795</time>
<s>想进入它的中心</s>
<time>2074_00:56:54,228 --> 00:56:55,308</time>
<s>你就是最后你就知道</s>
<time>2075_00:56:55,668 --> 00:56:57,108</time>
<s>你不管什么样的时候你都肯定</s>
<time>2076_00:56:57,468 --> 00:56:58,188</time>
<s>你多么好的朋友</s>
<time>2077_00:56:59,628 --> 00:57:01,428</time>
<s>你肯定是有距离感的你知道的</s>
<time>2078_00:57:01,788 --> 00:57:03,572</time>
<s>所以可能也正是这种态度</s>
<time>2079_00:57:03,932 --> 00:57:04,292</time>
<s>对啊</s>
<time>2080_00:57:04,652 --> 00:57:05,732</time>
<s>这让咱们很多国民</s>
<time>2081_00:57:06,092 --> 00:57:06,452</time>
<s>看着它就讨厌</s>
<time>2082_00:57:08,972 --> 00:57:09,692</time>
<s>我们文化也暖味</s>
<time>2083_00:57:10,052 --> 00:57:11,132</time>
<s>我给你讲一个例子</s>
<time>2084_00:57:11,492 --> 00:57:11,852</time>
<s>非常有意思</s>
<time>2085_00:57:12,572 --> 00:57:14,012</time>
<s>一个这个华人的家长跟我说</s>
<time>2086_00:57:14,372 --> 00:57:16,172</time>
<s>这个你去帮我上学校</s>
<time>2087_00:57:16,532 --> 00:57:17,252</time>
<s>去给我采访采访</s>
<time>2088_00:57:17,612 --> 00:57:17,972</time>
<s>我这小孩在日本</s>
<time>2089_00:57:18,332 --> 00:57:20,492</time>
<s>这老学校里受欺负你知道吗</s>
<time>2090_00:57:21,932 --> 00:57:22,292</time>
<s>我就去帮着人家</s>
<time>2091_00:57:22,652 --> 00:57:24,444</time>
<s>咱们是干华人媒体的去吧</s>
<time>2092_00:57:24,804 --> 00:57:25,524</time>
<s>去完了以后老师跟我说呢</s>
<time>2093_00:57:27,324 --> 00:57:29,124</time>
<s>这个赖我你知道吧</s>
<time>2094_00:57:29,484 --> 00:57:30,924</time>
<s>说这个我没给管理好</s>
<time>2095_00:57:31,284 --> 00:57:32,724</time>
<s>还让你们这个记者都跑过来</s>
<time>2096_00:57:33,084 --> 00:57:33,789</time>
<s>这我不好</s>
<time>2097_00:57:34,149 --> 00:57:35,229</time>
<s>一会儿我带你去校长室</s>
<time>2098_00:57:35,589 --> 00:57:37,389</time>
<s>校长给你赔礼道歉</s>
<time>2099_00:57:37,749 --> 00:57:38,829</time>
<s>他说但是呢</s>
<time>2100_00:57:39,189 --> 00:57:39,549</time>
<s>我告诉你一个</s>
<time>2101_00:57:39,909 --> 00:57:41,349</time>
<s>我一直在观察这个事情</s>
<time>2102_00:57:41,709 --> 00:57:42,429</time>
<s>你们中国小孩</s>
<time>2103_00:57:42,789 --> 00:57:44,229</time>
<s>跟日本小孩不一样</s>
<time>2104_00:57:44,589 --> 00:57:45,309</time>
<s>中国小孩跟日本小孩</s>
<time>2105_00:57:45,669 --> 00:57:46,389</time>
<s>一旦要好了</s>
<time>2106_00:57:46,749 --> 00:57:47,829</time>
<s>说咱俩是好了伙伴了</s>
<time>2107_00:57:48,189 --> 00:57:48,909</time>
<s>就俩人要打着標</s>
<time>2108_00:57:49,269 --> 00:57:50,349</time>
<s>你明白这意思吗楼着抱着</s>
<time>2109_00:57:50,709 --> 00:57:51,429</time>
<s>穿一条裤子</s>
<time>2110_00:57:51,789 --> 00:57:52,509</time>
<s>楼着抱着</s>
<time>2111_00:57:52,869 --> 00:57:54,301</time>
<s>但是日本的小孩</s>
<time>2112_00:57:54,661 --> 00:57:55,021</time>
<s>他从小教育</s>
<time>2113_00:57:55,381 --> 00:57:55,741</time>
<s>不许有肢体接触</s>
<time>2114_00:57:57,541 --> 00:57:58,621</time>
<s>除非咱们打架</s>
<time>2115_00:57:58,981 --> 00:57:59,701</time>
<s>除了打架以外</s>
<time>2116_00:58:00,061 --> 00:58:01,141</time>
<s>没有什么手楼着手抱着</s>
<time>2117_00:58:01,501 --> 00:58:01,861</time>
<s>没有这个</s>
<time>2118_00:58:03,645 --> 00:58:05,085</time>
<s>你在日本它的街头你去看看</s>
<time>2119_00:58:05,445 --> 00:58:07,245</time>
<s>有这么挎着楼着走吗没有</s>
<time>2120_00:58:07,605 --> 00:58:09,405</time>
<s>中国一看要有闺蜜什么的</s>
<time>2121_00:58:09,765 --> 00:58:10,845</time>
<s>就是很常见的</s>
<time>2122_00:58:11,205 --> 00:58:11,925</time>
<s>日本没有这个</s>
<time>2123_00:58:12,285 --> 00:58:12,645</time>
<s>就是他没有肢体接触</s>
<time>2124_00:58:13,005 --> 00:58:13,365</time>
<s>所以这个时候呢</s>
<time>2125_00:58:13,724 --> 00:58:14,084</time>
<s>他一去跟人家</s>
<time>2126_00:58:14,444 --> 00:58:15,164</time>
<s>一抱人家的时候</s>
<time>2127_00:58:16,964 --> 00:58:17,684</time>
<s>这一推他他就觉得被</s>
<time>2128_00:58:18,044 --> 00:58:19,124</time>
<s>语言还没过关呢</s>
<time>2129_00:58:19,484 --> 00:58:20,564</time>
<s>这不是被欺负了吗</s>
<time>2130_00:58:20,924 --> 00:58:22,364</time>
<s>这就是个文化冲突</s>
<time>2131_00:58:22,724 --> 00:58:24,156</time>
<s>所以说这还是</s>
<time>2132_00:58:24,516 --> 00:58:25,236</time>
<s>这从咱们一百年前</s>
<time>2133_00:58:25,596 --> 00:58:28,116</time>
<s>咱们这个就有老师说过了是吧</s>
<time>2134_00:58:28,476 --> 00:58:30,996</time>
<s>对日本这个民族这个国家</s>
<time>2135_00:58:31,356 --> 00:58:33,860</time>
<s>不管你是佩服它</s>
<time>2136_00:58:34,220 --> 00:58:35,300</time>
<s>还是憎恨它</s>
<time>2137_00:58:35,660 --> 00:58:36,740</time>
<s>首先你要了解它</s>
<time>2138_00:58:38,180 --> 00:58:38,540</time>
<s>是这么说吧</s>
<time>2139_00:58:38,900 --> 00:58:39,620</time>
<s>谢谢</s>
<time>2140_00:58:39,980 --> 00:58:40,340</time>
<s>好谢谢</s>
<time>2141_00:58:40,700 --> 00:58:42,140</time>
<s>谢谢蒋老师帮我们了解了</s>
