<time>434_00:13:11,053 --> 00:13:12,133</time>
<s>你想都不用想</s>
<time>435_00:13:12,493 --> 00:13:13,213</time>
<s>还有一些是</s>
<time>436_00:13:13,573 --> 00:13:15,013</time>
<s>如果你不是从小练</s>
<time>437_00:13:15,350 --> 00:13:16,790</time>
<s>都可能没用了</s>
<time>438_00:13:17,150 --> 00:13:19,310</time>
<s>对像郎朗练成什么样了</s>
<time>439_00:13:19,670 --> 00:13:20,750</time>
<s>你必须得从小</s>
<time>440_00:13:21,110 --> 00:13:22,550</time>
<s>现在的人的方式是</s>
<time>441_00:13:22,910 --> 00:13:25,070</time>
<s>那个我从网上</s>
<time>442_00:13:25,422 --> 00:13:26,862</time>
<s>拿一个别人的东西来</s>
<time>443_00:13:28,662 --> 00:13:30,102</time>
<s>但是这个就是潮流</s>
<time>444_00:13:30,462 --> 00:13:31,542</time>
<s>其实和我们学习是一样的</s>
<time>445_00:13:31,902 --> 00:13:34,422</time>
<s>比如说我喜欢肖邦</s>
<time>446_00:13:34,782 --> 00:13:36,567</time>
<s>我学习他用了十年</s>
<time>447_00:13:36,927 --> 00:13:38,367</time>
<s>终于学到他一个东西</s>
<time>448_00:13:38,727 --> 00:13:40,167</time>
<s>移植到我的音乐里来</s>
<time>449_00:13:40,527 --> 00:13:40,887</time>
<s>现在的人是</s>
<time>450_00:13:42,327 --> 00:13:42,687</time>
<s>一秒就拿过来</s>
<time>451_00:13:45,207 --> 00:13:46,984</time>
<s>其实是一样的</s>
<time>452_00:13:47,344 --> 00:13:47,704</time>
<s>我觉得是一样</s>
<time>453_00:13:48,064 --> 00:13:49,504</time>
<s>当然我说的不是完全拿过来</s>
<time>454_00:13:49,864 --> 00:13:50,584</time>
<s>他还是要变奏</s>
<time>455_00:13:50,944 --> 00:13:52,024</time>
<s>或者去改一些东西</s>
<time>456_00:13:52,384 --> 00:13:53,464</time>
<s>用你的方式理解</s>
<time>457_00:13:53,824 --> 00:13:56,337</time>
<s>但是它就是这个方式</s>
<time>458_00:13:56,697 --> 00:13:58,857</time>
<s>你不开心也没用</s>
<time>459_00:13:59,217 --> 00:14:00,657</time>
<s>大家愿意更快地</s>
<time>460_00:14:01,017 --> 00:14:02,097</time>
<s>就接上一个问题</s>
<time>461_00:14:02,457 --> 00:14:02,817</time>
<s>我觉得就是</s>
<time>462_00:14:03,177 --> 00:14:03,897</time>
<s>不同门类的音乐</s>
<time>463_00:14:04,257 --> 00:14:04,617</time>
<s>互相这种冲撞</s>
<time>464_00:14:04,977 --> 00:14:06,041</time>
<s>我是首先就是不懂</s>
<time>465_00:14:07,481 --> 00:14:08,921</time>
<s>就是大家对音乐本身不太懂</s>
<time>466_00:14:09,281 --> 00:14:10,721</time>
<s>这个是导致一个核心问题</s>
<time>467_00:14:11,081 --> 00:14:12,161</time>
<s>就是我不懂什么叫嘻哈</s>
<time>468_00:14:12,521 --> 00:14:13,241</time>
<s>我不懂什么叫古典</s>
<time>469_00:14:13,601 --> 00:14:15,041</time>
<s>我不懂什么叫摇滚乐</s>
<time>470_00:14:15,401 --> 00:14:17,201</time>
<s>这个是误会的基础</s>
<time>471_00:14:17,561 --> 00:14:18,281</time>
<s>但是你要说不懂呢</s>
<time>472_00:14:18,641 --> 00:14:19,721</time>
<s>我给你看一段小视频</s>
<time>473_00:14:20,081 --> 00:14:21,161</time>
<s>也表现出我们这样的</s>
<time>474_00:14:21,521 --> 00:14:22,241</time>
<s>也有一种懂</s>
<time>475_00:14:26,193 --> 00:14:26,553</time>
<s>就是这个好像是</s>
<time>476_00:14:48,498 --> 00:14:48,858</time>
<s>就是说呢</s>
<time>477_00:14:49,938 --> 00:14:51,378</time>
<s>比如说那像我们不懂的看</s>
<time>478_00:14:52,458 --> 00:14:53,538</time>
<s>为什么摇滚要摇头呢</s>
<time>479_00:14:55,698 --> 00:14:56,410</time>
<s>最早它就是</s>
<time>480_00:14:56,770 --> 00:14:57,850</time>
<s>那种反抗性在里边</s>
<time>481_00:14:58,210 --> 00:14:59,290</time>
<s>比如说从黑人发明这种音乐</s>
<time>482_00:14:59,650 --> 00:15:01,090</time>
<s>他把重音从前面变成后面</s>
<time>483_00:15:01,450 --> 00:15:02,890</time>
<s>比如说以前是弱强</s>
<time>484_00:15:03,250 --> 00:15:03,610</time>
<s>?</s><s>还是强弱我也不懂</s>
<time>485_00:15:03,970 --> 00:15:05,050</time>
<s>我也不是理论派</s>
<time>486_00:15:05,410 --> 00:15:06,114</time>
<s>他会把重音调整到</s>
<time>487_00:15:06,474 --> 00:15:07,194</time>
<s>跟你反方向玩</s>
<time>488_00:15:08,634 --> 00:15:08,994</time>
<s>它从音乐根上来讲</s>
<time>489_00:15:09,354 --> 00:15:11,154</time>
<s>它是反节奏的一个玩法</s>
<time>490_00:15:11,514 --> 00:15:12,234</time>
<s>那慢慢慢慢</s>
<time>491_00:15:12,594 --> 00:15:13,314</time>
<s>它可能更具备的气质是</s>
<time>492_00:15:13,674 --> 00:15:14,394</time>
<s>背叛和批判</s>
<time>493_00:15:15,834 --> 00:15:17,273</time>
<s>首先它的这种批判性特别强</s>
<time>494_00:15:17,633 --> 00:15:18,713</time>
<s>它一定要有它的一个批判精神</s>
<time>495_00:15:19,073 --> 00:15:19,793</time>
<s>我在这个社会里边</s>
<time>496_00:15:20,153 --> 00:15:21,593</time>
<s>我作为一个音乐从业者</s>
<time>497_00:15:21,953 --> 00:15:23,033</time>
<s>还是一个艺术工作者</s>
<time>498_00:15:23,393 --> 00:15:24,833</time>
<s>我要对社会有洞察</s>
<time>499_00:15:25,193 --> 00:15:26,265</time>
<s>有拿出自己的态度</s>
<time>500_00:15:26,985 --> 00:15:28,425</time>
<s>一种摇滚乐的一个现状</s>
<time>501_00:15:28,785 --> 00:15:30,585</time>
<s>那么时间推移了嘛</s>
<time>502_00:15:30,945 --> 00:15:31,305</time>
<s>再到中国</s>
<time>503_00:15:32,025 --> 00:15:32,745</time>
<s>第一是大家对本身</s>
<time>504_00:15:33,105 --> 00:15:34,905</time>
<s>这种音乐文化的认知程度不够</s>
<time>505_00:15:35,265 --> 00:15:37,049</time>
<s>第二就是我觉得时代在变</s>
<time>506_00:15:37,409 --> 00:15:38,129</time>
<s>中国是一个不能</s>
<time>507_00:15:38,489 --> 00:15:40,289</time>
<s>按传统去理解的一个</s>
<time>508_00:15:40,649 --> 00:15:41,009</time>
<s>发展的一个过程</s>
<time>509_00:15:41,369 --> 00:15:42,089</time>
<s>在很多层面上</s>
<time>510_00:15:42,449 --> 00:15:43,889</time>
<s>因为这个信息量的改变</s>
<time>511_00:15:44,249 --> 00:15:44,969</time>
<s>比如说我们当年等待</s>
<time>512_00:15:45,329 --> 00:15:46,769</time>
<s>版权何时回归</s>
<time>513_00:15:47,129 --> 00:15:48,209</time>
<s>我们何时能拿到版权</s>
<time>514_00:15:48,569 --> 00:15:48,929</time>
<s>就是突然MP3</s>
<time>515_00:15:49,289 --> 00:15:50,369</time>
<s>伟大的MP3出现了</s>
<time>516_00:15:50,729 --> 00:15:51,449</time>
<s>全世界都崩溃了</s>
<time>517_00:15:51,809 --> 00:15:52,529</time>
<s>那不是我们崩溃</s>
<time>518_00:15:52,889 --> 00:15:53,249</time>
<s>滚右乐队都不知道</s>
<time>519_00:15:53,609 --> 00:15:54,329</time>
<s>怎么赚钱了</s>
<time>520_00:15:54,689 --> 00:15:55,409</time>
<s>他们还在研究新产品</s>
<time>521_00:15:55,769 --> 00:15:56,129</time>
<s>U2乐队跟那个什么</s>
<time>522_00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:57,560</time>
<s>这个各种东西合作</s>
<time>523_00:15:57,920 --> 00:15:59,720</time>
<s>找新的一个音乐的一个途径</s>
<time>524_00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:01,520</time>
<s>就是当我们等待传统的回归</s>
<time>525_00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:03,320</time>
<s>等待这种文化的集结的时候</s>
<time>526_00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:04,400</time>
<s>时代变了</s>
<time>527_00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:06,544</time>
<s>这种冲击让这一群人</s>
<time>528_00:16:06,904 --> 00:16:07,264</time>
<s>牺牲者非常多</s>
<time>529_00:16:07,624 --> 00:16:07,984</time>
<s>栖者非常多</s>
<time>530_00:16:08,344 --> 00:16:10,144</time>
<s>你知道就是其实说到根本上</s>
<time>531_00:16:10,504 --> 00:16:12,304</time>
<s>因为我又暴露我在这方面的无知</s>
<time>532_00:16:12,664 --> 00:16:13,744</time>
<s>我真是外行</s>
<time>533_00:16:14,104 --> 00:16:15,184</time>
<s>我觉得说到底</s>
<time>534_00:16:15,544 --> 00:16:17,344</time>
<s>还是个音乐人口的问题</s>
<time>535_00:16:17,704 --> 00:16:18,424</time>
<s>你比如说</s>
<time>536_00:16:18,784 --> 00:16:19,144</time>
<s>我没看啊</s>
<time>537_00:16:19,504 --> 00:16:20,224</time>
<s>上次他们有人讲说</s>
<time>538_00:16:20,584 --> 00:16:20,944</time>
<s>亚东有一次</s>
<time>539_00:16:21,304 --> 00:16:22,384</time>
<s>他们觉得也挺可乐的</s>
<time>540_00:16:22,744 --> 00:16:24,544</time>
<s>就是说亚东想教大家一个</s>
<time>541_00:16:24,904 --> 00:16:25,984</time>
<s>就是你说这个反节奏</s>
<time>542_00:16:26,344 --> 00:16:27,775</time>
<s>就我们该怎么给摇滚乐队</s>
<time>543_00:16:28,135 --> 00:16:29,575</time>
<s>这个叫好吧或者是</s>
<time>544_00:16:29,935 --> 00:16:30,295</time>
<s>那期我看了</s>
<time>545_00:16:31,735 --> 00:16:32,095</time>
<s>对</s>
<time>546_00:16:32,455 --> 00:16:33,895</time>
<s>说好像怎么教</s>
<time>547_00:16:34,255 --> 00:16:35,335</time>
<s>这个也教不会</s>
<time>548_00:16:35,695 --> 00:16:36,415</time>
<s>你知道吗就是</s>
<time>549_00:16:36,759 --> 00:16:37,479</time>
<s>甚至于我记得早期</s>
<time>550_00:16:37,839 --> 00:16:38,559</time>
<s>有人有一种看法</s>
<time>551_00:16:38,919 --> 00:16:39,639</time>
<s>不一定正确了</s>
<time>552_00:16:39,999 --> 00:16:42,159</time>
<s>就是说我们这个汉族人</s>
<time>553_00:16:42,519 --> 00:16:43,599</time>
<s>是不是天生</s>
<time>554_00:16:43,959 --> 00:16:44,679</time>
<s>高晓松说的</s>
<time>555_00:16:45,039 --> 00:16:46,119</time>
<s>节拍不对</s>
<time>556_00:16:46,479 --> 00:16:46,838</time>
<s>你点的</s>
<time>557_00:16:47,198 --> 00:16:48,638</time>
<s>是不是节奏感不行</s>
<time>558_00:16:48,998 --> 00:16:51,518</time>
<s>还是说这个音乐细胞上有点问题</s>
<time>559_00:16:51,878 --> 00:16:52,958</time>
<s>就是他不能跟着</s>
<time>560_00:16:53,318 --> 00:16:55,478</time>
<s>那个正确的节奏摇摆</s>
<time>561_00:16:55,838 --> 00:16:56,558</time>
<s>他找不准这个点</s>
<time>562_00:16:56,909 --> 00:16:57,269</time>
<s>甚至有人说</s>
<time>563_00:16:57,629 --> 00:16:58,709</time>
<s>说这是个旋律性的民族</s>
<time>564_00:17:00,149 --> 00:17:00,509</time>
<s>我就不知道</s>
<time>565_00:17:00,869 --> 00:17:02,309</time>
<s>比如说你在音乐节上</s>
<time>566_00:17:02,669 --> 00:17:03,029</time>
<s>演出的时候</s>
<time>567_00:17:03,389 --> 00:17:04,829</time>
<s>你认为台下的反应</s>
<time>568_00:17:05,189 --> 00:17:08,053</time>
<s>表现出他们是懂你的音乐的吗</s>
<time>569_00:17:09,853 --> 00:17:10,573</time>
<s>这话反正得得罪人</s>
<time>570_00:17:10,933 --> 00:17:12,013</time>
<s>要说实话对</s>
<time>571_00:17:12,373 --> 00:17:12,733</time>
<s>那就说说别人</s>
<time>572_00:17:13,093 --> 00:17:14,173</time>
<s>你需要人家懂吗</s>
<time>573_00:17:14,533 --> 00:17:15,973</time>
<s>你不需要人跟着你一块唱吧</s>
<time>574_00:17:16,333 --> 00:17:17,051</time>
<s>他们应该很烦这个吧</s>
<time>575_00:17:17,411 --> 00:17:18,131</time>
<s>这些特别你们看着很酷的</s>
<time>576_00:17:18,491 --> 00:17:19,211</time>
<s>这帮搞摇滚的</s>
<time>577_00:17:19,571 --> 00:17:20,651</time>
<s>天天就是那种重金属</s>
<time>578_00:17:21,011 --> 00:17:21,731</time>
<s>不能说风格了得罪人了</s>
<time>579_00:17:22,091 --> 00:17:23,171</time>
<s>就是特别摇滚的人</s>
<time>580_00:17:23,531 --> 00:17:23,891</time>
<s>去卡拉OK</s>
<time>581_00:17:24,251 --> 00:17:25,331</time>
<s>流行歌一个会的比一个多</s>
<time>582_00:17:26,771 --> 00:17:28,563</time>
<s>因为他也得要舒服</s>
<time>583_00:17:28,923 --> 00:17:30,003</time>
<s>在你的心上自由地飞翔</s>
<time>584_00:17:30,363 --> 00:17:31,083</time>
<s>它就是舒展</s>
<time>585_00:17:31,443 --> 00:17:33,243</time>
<s>他也知道卡拉OK舒服是吗</s>
<time>586_00:17:33,603 --> 00:17:34,323</time>
<s>对啊唱一首刘德华的《来生缘》</s>
<time>587_00:17:34,683 --> 00:17:35,403</time>
<s>也陶冶情操</s>
<time>588_00:17:35,763 --> 00:17:37,186</time>
<s>也回忆起过去的点点滴滴</s>
<time>589_00:17:37,546 --> 00:17:39,346</time>
<s>那不是说在台上总是那样</s>
<time>590_00:17:39,706 --> 00:17:40,786</time>
<s>但是台上那个</s>
<time>591_00:17:41,146 --> 00:17:42,226</time>
<s>他认为他是要传达的信号</s>
<time>592_00:17:43,666 --> 00:17:45,466</time>
<s>他认为那是我要传达给别人的</s>
<time>593_00:17:45,826 --> 00:17:47,625</time>
<s>台下有些东西是自己要享受的</s>
<time>594_00:17:47,985 --> 00:17:49,065</time>
<s>对当然这是台上的人</s>
<time>595_00:17:49,425 --> 00:17:49,785</time>
<s>你说没事</s>
<time>596_00:17:50,145 --> 00:17:51,945</time>
<s>没有我就我忍不住说</s>
<time>597_00:17:52,305 --> 00:17:52,665</time>
<s>就是我老觉得</s>
<time>598_00:17:53,025 --> 00:17:53,745</time>
<s>像那个摇滚音乐会</s>
<time>599_00:17:54,105 --> 00:17:56,265</time>
<s>我就特烦变成卡拉OK大会</s>
<time>600_00:17:56,625 --> 00:17:57,696</time>
<s>就是唱什么呀</s>
<time>601_00:17:58,056 --> 00:17:58,776</time>
<s>你让人唱好不好</s>
<time>602_00:17:59,136 --> 00:17:59,496</time>
<s>然后我记得</s>
<time>603_00:17:59,856 --> 00:18:01,296</time>
<s>我去过几次那个崔健嘛</s>
<time>604_00:18:01,656 --> 00:18:02,376</time>
<s>然后我觉得他很烦</s>
<time>605_00:18:02,736 --> 00:18:03,456</time>
<s>大家在底下喊</s>
<time>606_00:18:04,896 --> 00:18:05,256</time>
<s>那个《花房姑娘》</s>
<time>607_00:18:05,616 --> 00:18:05,976</time>
<s>他特别烦</s>
<time>608_00:18:06,336 --> 00:18:07,056</time>
<s>他就觉得我有新歌</s>
<time>609_00:18:07,399 --> 00:18:08,119</time>
<s>你们为什么不让我唱</s>
<time>610_00:18:08,479 --> 00:18:08,839</time>
<s>就是</s>
<time>611_00:18:09,199 --> 00:18:10,279</time>
<s>大家不愿意听</s>
<time>612_00:18:10,639 --> 00:18:11,719</time>
<s>因为大家想卡拉OK</s>
<time>613_00:18:12,439 --> 00:18:13,879</time>
<s>就你刚刚说什么是摇滚</s>
<time>614_00:18:14,239 --> 00:18:14,959</time>
<s>其实我记得是谁</s>
<time>615_00:18:15,319 --> 00:18:15,679</time>
<s>不知道是崔健</s>
<time>616_00:18:16,039 --> 00:18:16,759</time>
<s>还是谁说过一句嘛</s>
<time>617_00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:18,197</time>
<s>就是说愤怒出摇滚嘛</s>
<time>618_00:18:18,557 --> 00:18:20,717</time>
<s>就是你得老觉得哪儿不对劲</s>
<time>619_00:18:21,077 --> 00:18:22,157</time>
<s>其实真不是</s>
<time>620_00:18:22,517 --> 00:18:23,957</time>
<s>你想rockandroll（摇滚乐）</s>
<time>621_00:18:24,317 --> 00:18:25,757</time>
<s>最早开始的时候布鲁斯</s>
<time>622_00:18:26,117 --> 00:18:27,197</time>
<s>就美国二人转</s>
<time>623_00:18:27,548 --> 00:18:27,908</time>
<s>对</s>
<time>624_00:18:28,268 --> 00:18:28,628</time>
<s>很简单</s>
<time>625_00:18:28,988 --> 00:18:29,708</time>
<s>对这个解释特别好</s>
<time>626_00:18:30,068 --> 00:18:31,868</time>
<s>对它没那么多</s>
<time>627_00:18:32,228 --> 00:18:33,308</time>
<s>音乐不需要承载</s>
<time>628_00:18:33,668 --> 00:18:34,388</time>
<s>那么沉重的东西</s>
<time>629_00:18:34,748 --> 00:18:36,188</time>
<s>它就是节奏就是爽</s>
<time>630_00:18:36,548 --> 00:18:37,268</time>
<s>开心完了</s>
<time>631_00:18:37,611 --> 00:18:39,771</time>
<s>你认为他是不加思考</s>
<time>632_00:18:40,131 --> 00:18:40,851</time>
<s>说出来的话</s>
<time>633_00:18:41,211 --> 00:18:44,091</time>
<s>其实是有他自己的那个味道在</s>
<time>634_00:18:44,451 --> 00:18:46,251</time>
<s>所以黑人的那个像</s>
<time>635_00:18:46,971 --> 00:18:48,049</time>
<s>像ChuckBerry</s>
<time>636_00:18:48,409 --> 00:18:50,569</time>
<s>那个鸭步弹着吉他</s>
<time>637_00:18:50,929 --> 00:18:52,009</time>
<s>那个做的那个动作</s>
<time>638_00:18:52,369 --> 00:18:55,249</time>
<s>是他整体的那个东西会感染你</s>
<time>639_00:18:55,609 --> 00:18:56,689</time>
<s>后来就是我们会</s>
<time>640_00:18:57,049 --> 00:19:00,640</time>
<s>总是想要让音乐承载一些东西</s>
<time>641_00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:02,080</time>
<s>它其实</s>
<time>642_00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:04,240</time>
<s>它音乐本来就很美</s>
<time>643_00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:05,680</time>
<s>比如节奏是美的</s>
<time>644_00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:07,480</time>
<s>你听了一个节奏你就想动</s>
<time>645_00:19:07,823 --> 00:19:09,623</time>
<s>这就是音乐的美</s>
<time>646_00:19:09,983 --> 00:19:12,143</time>
<s>可是我们后来就变成说</s>
<time>647_00:19:12,503 --> 00:19:13,583</time>
<s>好吧仅有这个是不够的</s>
<time>648_00:19:13,943 --> 00:19:15,023</time>
<s>因为这个是怎么说</s>
<time>649_00:19:15,383 --> 00:19:17,183</time>
<s>感官感官享受嘛</s>
<time>650_00:19:17,543 --> 00:19:18,621</time>
<s>就跟你看一颜色好看</s>
<time>651_00:19:18,981 --> 00:19:19,341</time>
<s>你喜欢</s>
<time>652_00:19:19,701 --> 00:19:21,141</time>
<s>你也不明白为什么会感动</s>
<time>653_00:19:21,501 --> 00:19:23,661</time>
<s>但是像您刚才放的那些</s>
<time>654_00:19:24,021 --> 00:19:25,821</time>
<s>比如说民谣的就会苦苦的</s>
<time>655_00:19:27,261 --> 00:19:27,971</time>
<s>就感觉特别穷</s>
<time>656_00:19:28,331 --> 00:19:29,051</time>
<s>特别落魄</s>
<time>657_00:19:29,411 --> 00:19:30,851</time>
<s>嘻哈就是大金链子</s>
<time>658_00:19:31,211 --> 00:19:32,291</time>
<s>那个</s>
<time>659_00:19:32,651 --> 00:19:33,011</time>
<s>墨镜</s>
<time>660_00:19:33,371 --> 00:19:34,091</time>
<s>对</s>
<time>661_00:19:34,451 --> 00:19:34,811</time>
<s>像东北人</s>
<time>662_00:19:35,171 --> 00:19:38,394</time>
<s>对这个其实特别特别表面</s>
<time>663_00:19:39,114 --> 00:19:39,834</time>
<s>这个都是</s>
<time>664_00:19:40,914 --> 00:19:41,274</time>
<s>对就是符号</s>
<time>665_00:19:41,634 --> 00:19:43,434</time>
<s>其实还挺无聊的</s>
<time>666_00:19:43,794 --> 00:19:44,154</time>
<s>还是要说其实</s>
<time>667_00:19:45,954 --> 00:19:48,472</time>
<s>就是我其实是特别害怕</s>
<time>668_00:19:48,832 --> 00:19:49,552</time>
<s>那个歌是套路的</s>
<time>669_00:19:50,992 --> 00:19:51,712</time>
<s>愿意</s>
<time>670_00:19:52,072 --> 00:19:53,512</time>
<s>比如他们乐队</s>
<time>671_00:19:53,872 --> 00:19:54,592</time>
<s>你光是名字</s>
<time>672_00:19:54,952 --> 00:19:56,392</time>
<s>对我来说我已经</s>
<time>673_00:19:56,752 --> 00:19:58,182</time>
<s>就是特别喜欢</s>
<time>674_00:19:58,542 --> 00:19:59,622</time>
<s>我看过他们演出</s>
<time>675_00:19:59,982 --> 00:20:01,782</time>
<s>因为二手玫瑰这个名字</s>
<time>676_00:20:02,142 --> 00:20:03,222</time>
<s>为什么叫二手玫瑰</s>
<time>677_00:20:05,022 --> 00:20:05,382</time>
<s>这其实特别容易</s>
<time>678_00:20:05,742 --> 00:20:06,462</time>
<s>最早就是来北京</s>
<time>679_00:20:06,822 --> 00:20:07,902</time>
<s>看到过很多当时的</s>
<time>680_00:20:09,324 --> 00:20:10,404</time>
<s>包括主流和非主流的</s>
<time>681_00:20:10,764 --> 00:20:12,204</time>
<s>我觉得就是都在拷贝</s>
<time>682_00:20:12,564 --> 00:20:12,924</time>
<s>那个年代</s>
<time>683_00:20:13,284 --> 00:20:13,644</time>
<s>但是对</s>
<time>684_00:20:14,004 --> 00:20:15,084</time>
<s>那个过程是很正常的</s>
<time>685_00:20:15,444 --> 00:20:15,804</time>
<s>因为我们没有</s>
<time>686_00:20:16,164 --> 00:20:16,884</time>
<s>流行音乐的基础</s>
<time>687_00:20:17,244 --> 00:20:18,322</time>
<s>这本来就是听国外来的</s>
<time>688_00:20:18,682 --> 00:20:19,402</time>
<s>我们当然会有一个</s>
<time>689_00:20:19,762 --> 00:20:21,562</time>
<s>学习和吸收的过程</s>
<time>690_00:20:21,922 --> 00:20:22,642</time>
<s>但是过了2000年之后</s>
<time>691_00:20:23,002 --> 00:20:24,082</time>
<s>我认为这个桥段</s>
<time>692_00:20:24,442 --> 00:20:25,162</time>
<s>大家应该发生变化了</s>
<time>693_00:20:25,522 --> 00:20:26,242</time>
<s>如果再是那样的话呢</s>
<time>694_00:20:26,602 --> 00:20:28,392</time>
<s>可能就有点无趣了</s>
<time>695_00:20:28,752 --> 00:20:29,472</time>
<s>就是当然一手</s>
<time>696_00:20:29,832 --> 00:20:30,192</time>
<s>与其说是一个反讽</s>
<time>697_00:20:30,552 --> 00:20:31,992</time>
<s>也有一个警醒的意思</s>
<time>698_00:20:32,352 --> 00:20:34,512</time>
<s>或者说现在再解读的话</s>
<time>699_00:20:34,872 --> 00:20:35,952</time>
<s>二手的东西可能才是最好的</s>
<time>700_00:20:37,752 --> 00:20:38,112</time>
<s>每个时代解读不同</s>
<time>701_00:20:38,454 --> 00:20:38,814</time>
<s>那玫瑰呢</s>
<time>702_00:20:40,614 --> 00:20:42,054</time>
<s>玫瑰那对守那个年代的我</s>
<time>703_00:20:44,574 --> 00:20:46,014</time>
<s>对于一个从东北乡村里</s>
<time>704_00:20:46,374 --> 00:20:47,454</time>
<s>出来的人来说</s>
<time>705_00:20:47,814 --> 00:20:48,892</time>
<s>其实我觉得他说得特别好</s>
<time>706_00:20:49,252 --> 00:20:51,772</time>
<s>就因为我不知道是怎么想</s>
<time>707_00:20:52,132 --> 00:20:53,212</time>
<s>其实现在大多数歌</s>
<time>708_00:20:53,572 --> 00:20:54,652</time>
<s>还是东拼西凑</s>
<time>709_00:20:55,012 --> 00:20:55,372</time>
<s>都是二手货</s>
<time>710_00:20:56,452 --> 00:20:57,892</time>
<s>都是大家拼来拼去</s>
<time>711_00:20:58,252 --> 00:20:59,682</time>
<s>那其实这个时代也</s>
<time>712_00:21:00,042 --> 00:21:02,202</time>
<s>大家也不要提什么原创</s>
<time>713_00:21:02,562 --> 00:21:05,802</time>
<s>你能够做最好的拼贴</s>
<time>714_00:21:06,162 --> 00:21:07,962</time>
<s>或者说把不同的元素</s>
<time>715_00:21:08,322 --> 00:21:09,744</time>
<s>能够重新混合</s>
<time>716_00:21:10,104 --> 00:21:11,544</time>
<s>那跟DJ有什么不同呢</s>
<time>717_00:21:11,904 --> 00:21:12,264</time>
<s>其实就是</s>
<time>718_00:21:12,624 --> 00:21:13,704</time>
<s>这是他们的时代</s>
<time>719_00:21:14,064 --> 00:21:15,144</time>
<s>你可以不高兴</s>
<time>720_00:21:15,504 --> 00:21:16,224</time>
<s>但是对不起</s>
<time>721_00:21:16,584 --> 00:21:19,101</time>
<s>你逆转不了这个事实</s>
<time>722_00:21:19,461 --> 00:21:20,901</time>
<s>这就是像你看</s>
<time>723_00:21:21,621 --> 00:21:22,701</time>
<s>现在也有一种现成品</s>
<time>724_00:21:24,501 --> 00:21:24,861</time>
<s>原样拿来</s>
<time>725_00:21:25,221 --> 00:21:26,661</time>
<s>但是我赋予它重新的关系</s>
<time>726_00:21:27,021 --> 00:21:28,461</time>
<s>和这个意义</s>
<time>727_00:21:28,811 --> 00:21:29,531</time>
<s>但是这个里面</s>
<time>728_00:21:29,891 --> 00:21:32,411</time>
<s>你仍然能看出小众与大众</s>
<time>729_00:21:32,771 --> 00:21:33,491</time>
<s>你知道我有一哥们儿</s>
<time>730_00:21:33,851 --> 00:21:35,651</time>
<s>就是喜欢电音</s>
<time>731_00:21:36,011 --> 00:21:36,371</time>
<s>那喜欢电音就是</s>
<time>732_00:21:37,451 --> 00:21:38,873</time>
<s>就是蹦迪</s>
<time>733_00:21:39,233 --> 00:21:41,393</time>
<s>全世界音乐节他都去</s>
<time>734_00:21:41,753 --> 00:21:43,553</time>
<s>一直到现在跟小孩们玩</s>
<time>735_00:21:43,913 --> 00:21:44,633</time>
<s>他就发现</s>
<time>736_00:21:44,993 --> 00:21:45,713</time>
<s>他说你知道这个</s>
<time>737_00:21:46,073 --> 00:21:48,233</time>
<s>就是因为他玩了几十年了</s>
<time>738_00:21:48,593 --> 00:21:49,670</time>
<s>他说我们那一辈的</s>
<time>739_00:21:50,030 --> 00:21:51,470</time>
<s>全世界的十大DJ</s>
<time>740_00:21:51,830 --> 00:21:53,630</time>
<s>和今天的排行榜上这个DJ</s>
<time>741_00:21:53,990 --> 00:21:55,430</time>
<s>他说我观察不一样</s>
<time>742_00:21:55,790 --> 00:21:56,510</time>
<s>我说有什么不一样</s>
<time>743_00:21:56,870 --> 00:21:57,950</time>
<s>他说得挺有意思</s>
<time>744_00:21:58,310 --> 00:22:00,460</time>
<s>他说一九九几年的时候</s>
<time>745_00:22:00,820 --> 00:22:02,260</time>
<s>那个时候这个DJ</s>
<time>746_00:22:02,620 --> 00:22:05,140</time>
<s>你看着他像个工程师</s>
<time>747_00:22:05,500 --> 00:22:06,220</time>
<s>就穿着个T恤</s>
<time>748_00:22:06,580 --> 00:22:08,380</time>
<s>他也不跟你什么交流</s>
<time>749_00:22:08,740 --> 00:22:09,801</time>
<s>最多弄两下</s>
<time>750_00:22:10,161 --> 00:22:10,881</time>
<s>他就是忙着一堆机器</s>
<time>751_00:22:12,321 --> 00:22:13,401</time>
<s>然后底下的这个观众</s>
<time>752_00:22:13,761 --> 00:22:15,561</time>
<s>这个跳舞的就如痴如醉</s>
<time>753_00:22:15,921 --> 00:22:16,641</time>
<s>他说我现在发现</s>
<time>754_00:22:17,001 --> 00:22:18,441</time>
<s>现在的排名的DJ</s>
<time>755_00:22:18,801 --> 00:22:20,238</time>
<s>表演性强了</s>
<time>756_00:22:20,598 --> 00:22:22,758</time>
<s>他们这个甚至有的就是小靓仔</s>
<time>757_00:22:23,118 --> 00:22:24,198</time>
<s>甚至这打着打着碟</s>
<time>758_00:22:24,558 --> 00:22:24,918</time>
<s>就跳到台上</s>
<time>759_00:22:27,438 --> 00:22:27,798</time>
<s>呼应</s>
<time>760_00:22:28,158 --> 00:22:28,878</time>
<s>然后他说我去参加</s>
<time>761_00:22:29,228 --> 00:22:31,028</time>
<s>这个世界青年音乐节</s>
<time>762_00:22:31,388 --> 00:22:32,108</time>
<s>他说我就发现呢</s>
<time>763_00:22:33,908 --> 00:22:34,628</time>
<s>我以为就是说</s>
<time>764_00:22:34,988 --> 00:22:37,508</time>
<s>玩电音这些是小众</s>
<time>765_00:22:37,868 --> 00:22:38,588</time>
<s>怎么会有全世界</s>
<time>766_00:22:38,948 --> 00:22:41,089</time>
<s>十几万的青年都去</s>
<time>767_00:22:41,449 --> 00:22:42,169</time>
<s>后来他说那个里边</s>
<time>768_00:22:42,529 --> 00:22:43,969</time>
<s>分成好多会场</s>
<time>769_00:22:44,329 --> 00:22:46,129</time>
<s>其中这个最大的会场</s>
<time>770_00:22:46,489 --> 00:22:49,366</time>
<s>十几万人的这个主会场</s>
<time>771_00:22:49,726 --> 00:22:50,446</time>
<s>他明白了</s>
<time>772_00:22:50,806 --> 00:22:52,246</time>
<s>这个里面也有主流</s>
<time>773_00:22:52,966 --> 00:22:53,326</time>
<s>当然我不知道</s>
<time>774_00:22:53,686 --> 00:22:54,406</time>
<s>你们是内行</s>
<time>775_00:22:54,766 --> 00:22:56,206</time>
<s>他的分析对不对</s>
<time>776_00:22:56,566 --> 00:22:58,006</time>
<s>他说我后来明白了</s>
<time>777_00:22:58,366 --> 00:22:59,795</time>
<s>这还是流行歌曲</s>
<time>778_00:23:00,155 --> 00:23:01,595</time>
<s>就是最大多数的</s>
<time>779_00:23:01,955 --> 00:23:03,395</time>
<s>那十几万人的场子</s>
<time>780_00:23:03,755 --> 00:23:05,195</time>
<s>他们最欢迎那个DJ</s>
<time>781_00:23:05,555 --> 00:23:06,275</time>
<s>他还是就是大家可以</s>
<time>782_00:23:06,635 --> 00:23:07,715</time>
<s>跟着一起唱的</s>
<time>783_00:23:08,075 --> 00:23:08,435</time>
<s>你知道吗那种</s>
<time>784_00:23:10,577 --> 00:23:11,657</time>
<s>那大家最开心</s>
<time>785_00:23:12,017 --> 00:23:14,537</time>
<s>他说但是其实我们原来听的</s>
<time>786_00:23:14,897 --> 00:23:15,617</time>
<s>那叫一个什么</s>
<time>787_00:23:15,977 --> 00:23:17,417</time>
<s>trance还是叫什么</s>
<time>788_00:23:17,777 --> 00:23:18,497</time>
<s>他说我有时候</s>
<time>789_00:23:18,857 --> 00:23:19,933</time>
<s>我跑到一个小的场子</s>
<time>790_00:23:20,293 --> 00:23:23,173</time>
<s>才会发现那个是我们喜欢的</s>
<time>791_00:23:23,533 --> 00:23:25,333</time>
<s>就是感觉简直都没旋律了</s>
<time>792_00:23:25,693 --> 00:23:26,773</time>
<s>真的就是纯的节奏</s>
<time>793_00:23:28,573 --> 00:23:30,362</time>
<s>觉得特别有力道什么的</s>
<time>794_00:23:30,722 --> 00:23:31,802</time>
<s>你看连这个电音里边</s>
<time>795_00:23:32,882 --> 00:23:33,242</time>
<s>就是</s>
<time>796_00:23:33,602 --> 00:23:34,322</time>
<s>一都一样的</s>
<time>797_00:23:34,682 --> 00:23:35,042</time>
<s>一你觉得旋律</s>
<time>798_00:23:35,402 --> 00:23:37,562</time>
<s>是不是个特别大众化的东西</s>
<time>799_00:23:37,922 --> 00:23:38,642</time>
<s>一定是的</s>
<time>800_00:23:39,002 --> 00:23:40,783</time>
<s>因为旋律的跟随感特别强</s>
<time>801_00:23:41,143 --> 00:23:41,503</time>
<s>但是节奏其实也一样</s>
<time>802_00:23:42,943 --> 00:23:44,023</time>
<s>所以我就想起你刚才讲的</s>
<time>803_00:23:44,383 --> 00:23:45,463</time>
<s>这个得罪人的话你还没说呢</s>
<time>804_00:23:46,543 --> 00:23:47,983</time>
<s>不是就是你观察</s>
<time>805_00:23:48,343 --> 00:23:49,780</time>
<s>你去很多音乐节</s>
<time>806_00:23:50,140 --> 00:23:50,500</time>
<s>因为我想了解</s>
<time>807_00:23:50,860 --> 00:23:52,300</time>
<s>中国人现在的音乐生活</s>
<time>808_00:23:52,660 --> 00:23:54,460</time>
<s>我觉得就是拿这个现场例子</s>
<time>809_00:23:54,820 --> 00:23:55,180</time>
<s>举例子来讲</s>
<time>810_00:23:55,540 --> 00:23:55,900</time>
<s>之我们一开始</s>
<time>811_00:23:56,260 --> 00:23:58,060</time>
<s>今年巡演就是15站</s>
<time>812_00:23:58,420 --> 00:23:59,500</time>
<s>然后有好多站就是</s>
<time>813_00:23:59,849 --> 00:24:01,289</time>
<s>大概开票几天就售馨了</s>
<time>814_00:24:01,649 --> 00:24:02,729</time>
<s>当时自己还挺沾沾自喜</s>
<time>815_00:24:03,089 --> 00:24:03,809</time>
<s>说是不是乐队</s>
<time>816_00:24:04,169 --> 00:24:04,889</time>
<s>又走上了一个新的高度</s>
<time>817_00:24:06,329 --> 00:24:06,689</time>
<s>然后到现场的时候</s>
<time>818_00:24:07,049 --> 00:24:08,129</time>
<s>有一个人就一盆凉水</s>
<time>819_00:24:08,849 --> 00:24:09,569</time>
<s>他说梁龙你知道</s>
<time>820_00:24:09,910 --> 00:24:11,350</time>
<s>为什么你票一旦卖得好</s>
<time>821_00:24:11,710 --> 00:24:12,790</time>
<s>就接着继续卖得好吗</s>
<time>822_00:24:13,150 --> 00:24:13,870</time>
<s>我说为什么</s>
<time>823_00:24:14,230 --> 00:24:14,950</time>
<s>因为这帮歌迷会分析</s>
<time>824_00:24:15,310 --> 00:24:16,750</time>
<s>哪个现场来人能跳水</s>
<time>825_00:24:17,830 --> 00:24:18,190</time>
<s>跳水</s>
<time>826_00:24:18,550 --> 00:24:19,630</time>
<s>跳水就是从舞台边上</s>
<time>827_00:24:19,986 --> 00:24:21,066</time>
<s>站起来往下跳</s>
<time>828_00:24:21,426 --> 00:24:22,146</time>
<s>歌迷接着就传他</s>
<time>829_00:24:22,866 --> 00:24:23,226</time>
<s>这叫跳水</s>
<time>830_00:24:23,586 --> 00:24:25,386</time>
<s>说那个票卖得少的他跳不了</s>
<time>831_00:24:27,186 --> 00:24:27,906</time>
<s>还有这个</s>
<time>832_00:24:28,266 --> 00:24:28,986</time>
<s>就是梁龙你太客气</s>
<time>833_00:24:29,346 --> 00:24:31,135</time>
<s>摔底下了就</s>
<time>834_00:24:31,495 --> 00:24:32,935</time>
<s>就是这里面有一部分人</s>
<time>835_00:24:33,295 --> 00:24:34,375</time>
<s>是一看二手卖太快了</s>
<time>836_00:24:34,735 --> 00:24:35,095</time>
<s>好像要售馨了</s>
<time>837_00:24:35,455 --> 00:24:36,895</time>
<s>赶快买他这一场一定能跳水</s>
<time>838_00:24:37,255 --> 00:24:37,975</time>
<s>就是我能玩得特别开心</s>
<time>839_00:24:38,335 --> 00:24:39,415</time>
<s>我能嗨得特别高兴</s>
<time>840_00:24:39,775 --> 00:24:40,475</time>
<s>你跳过吗</s>
<time>841_00:24:41,915 --> 00:24:42,275</time>
<s>结果呢</s>
<time>842_00:24:42,635 --> 00:24:43,355</time>
<s>就还行那天挺文明的</s>
<time>843_00:24:43,715 --> 00:24:44,075</time>
<s>接住了</s>
<time>844_00:24:46,595 --> 00:24:47,675</time>
<s>但是建议女主唱尽量别跳水</s>
<time>845_00:24:48,035 --> 00:24:49,115</time>
<s>因为就发生各种奇怪的行为</s>
<time>846_00:24:52,712 --> 00:24:53,072</time>
<s>对但是你看</s>
<time>847_00:24:53,432 --> 00:24:54,872</time>
<s>这个就让我特别反思</s>
<time>848_00:24:55,232 --> 00:24:55,952</time>
<s>其实现在</s>
<time>849_00:24:56,312 --> 00:24:57,752</time>
<s>起码现在90后或者00后</s>
<time>850_00:24:58,112 --> 00:24:59,552</time>
<s>他这个放松心更多了</s>
<time>851_00:24:59,912 --> 00:25:01,340</time>
<s>像最早我刚去演出</s>
<time>852_00:25:01,700 --> 00:25:02,780</time>
<s>70后他不会干别的</s>
<time>853_00:25:03,140 --> 00:25:04,580</time>
<s>他只会眼睛看着你</s>
<time>854_00:25:04,940 --> 00:25:06,380</time>
<s>他觉得你在唱他心里那句话</s>
<time>855_00:25:06,740 --> 00:25:07,100</time>
<s>完了像我那个年代的人</s>
<time>856_00:25:08,540 --> 00:25:09,260</time>
<s>都是那样的对</s>
<time>857_00:25:09,620 --> 00:25:10,321</time>
<s>现在有没有这样的</s>
<time>858_00:25:10,681 --> 00:25:11,041</time>
<s>有</s>
<time>859_00:25:11,401 --> 00:25:12,121</time>
<s>我见过90写二手的文章</s>
<time>860_00:25:12,481 --> 00:25:13,201</time>
<s>吓了我一跳</s>
<time>861_00:25:13,561 --> 00:25:15,001</time>
<s>就跟个哲学家似的写的</s>
<time>862_00:25:15,361 --> 00:25:16,801</time>
<s>我跟他说了</s>
<time>863_00:25:17,161 --> 00:25:17,521</time>
<s>我说你误读了</s>
<time>864_00:25:19,681 --> 00:25:21,117</time>
<s>对但是有这种纯玩心态的</s>
<time>865_00:25:21,477 --> 00:25:22,197</time>
<s>那你说他们是喜欢音乐吗</s>
<time>866_00:25:22,557 --> 00:25:23,997</time>
<s>应该也是喜欢</s>
