<time>1_00:00:42,166 --> 00:00:42,526</time>
<s>风比较大</s>
<time>2_00:00:44,326 --> 00:00:46,126</time>
<s>咱们这个也是文化的火苗</s>
<time>3_00:00:47,206 --> 00:00:47,566</time>
<s>王蒙老师</s>
<time>4_00:00:47,926 --> 00:00:49,726</time>
<s>您这个茅盾文学奖</s>
<time>5_00:00:50,086 --> 00:00:51,166</time>
<s>是头一回得吗</s>
<time>6_00:00:51,886 --> 00:00:52,246</time>
<s>又没拿过两回</s>
<time>7_00:00:52,606 --> 00:00:52,966</time>
<s>我怎么感觉您</s>
<time>8_00:00:53,326 --> 00:00:54,406</time>
<s>至少得得个十几回</s>
<time>9_00:00:54,766 --> 00:00:56,566</time>
<s>不是要是你主持可以</s>
<time>10_00:00:59,806 --> 00:01:01,246</time>
<s>其实我现在有一个困惑</s>
<time>11_00:01:01,606 --> 00:01:03,766</time>
<s>要跟您这个两位老师</s>
<time>12_00:01:04,126 --> 00:01:05,206</time>
<s>这个汇报一下</s>
<time>13_00:01:05,566 --> 00:01:07,366</time>
<s>你比如说像我们干的这行</s>
<time>14_00:01:07,726 --> 00:01:09,166</time>
<s>叫大众传播</s>
<time>15_00:01:09,526 --> 00:01:10,966</time>
<s>就是做节目说话</s>
<time>16_00:01:11,326 --> 00:01:13,846</time>
<s>要是觉得自己说了一句</s>
<time>17_00:01:14,206 --> 00:01:16,366</time>
<s>大部分人可能不懂的话</s>
<time>18_00:01:16,726 --> 00:01:18,166</time>
<s>就觉得像“违法”一样</s>
<time>19_00:01:18,526 --> 00:01:18,886</time>
<s>对</s>
<time>20_00:01:19,246 --> 00:01:20,326</time>
<s>要是觉得自己说了一个</s>
<time>21_00:01:20,686 --> 00:01:23,206</time>
<s>大部分人这个不感兴趣的事</s>
<time>22_00:01:23,566 --> 00:01:24,286</time>
<s>就觉得像“犯罪”一样</s>
<time>23_00:01:25,726 --> 00:01:28,246</time>
<s>其实有这么一个障碍</s>
<time>24_00:01:28,606 --> 00:01:30,046</time>
<s>但有时候也有一个冲动</s>
<time>25_00:01:30,406 --> 00:01:31,486</time>
<s>其实我私下里</s>
<time>26_00:01:31,846 --> 00:01:33,286</time>
<s>也是有一些小爱好</s>
<time>27_00:01:33,646 --> 00:01:35,806</time>
<s>但是老不敢拿出来探讨</s>
<time>28_00:01:36,886 --> 00:01:37,606</time>
<s>就害怕呢</s>
<time>29_00:01:37,966 --> 00:01:39,046</time>
<s>人说你装是吗</s>
<time>30_00:01:39,406 --> 00:01:40,486</time>
<s>那你的爱好并不见得</s>
<time>31_00:01:40,846 --> 00:01:43,006</time>
<s>是所有的人都喜欢</s>
<time>32_00:01:43,366 --> 00:01:44,086</time>
<s>王蒙老师我不知道</s>
<time>33_00:01:44,446 --> 00:01:45,166</time>
<s>您这种困惑有没有</s>
<time>34_00:01:45,526 --> 00:01:47,326</time>
<s>这个困惑我也有</s>
<time>35_00:01:47,686 --> 00:01:49,846</time>
<s>中国的一些最高明的</s>
<time>36_00:01:50,206 --> 00:01:54,886</time>
<s>相对来说并不以追求高深为自的</s>
<time>37_00:01:55,246 --> 00:01:57,406</time>
<s>是吧你看孔子的《论语》里头</s>
<time>38_00:01:57,766 --> 00:02:01,006</time>
<s>一句高深的也没有并不高深</s>
<time>39_00:02:01,366 --> 00:02:02,806</time>
<s>但是它就是合情合理</s>
<time>40_00:02:03,166 --> 00:02:04,966</time>
<s>能说服你说服你</s>
<time>41_00:02:05,326 --> 00:02:06,406</time>
<s>这个可以了</s>
<time>42_00:02:06,766 --> 00:02:08,926</time>
<s>但是我提一个什么建议呢</s>
<time>43_00:02:09,286 --> 00:02:10,726</time>
<s>我也不知道我这个是不是</s>
<time>44_00:02:11,086 --> 00:02:12,886</time>
<s>违反了您说的这行规</s>
<time>45_00:02:14,686 --> 00:02:16,846</time>
<s>警如说一家电视台是吧</s>
<time>46_00:02:17,206 --> 00:02:19,366</time>
<s>你的这个节自里头</s>
<time>47_00:02:19,726 --> 00:02:21,526</time>
<s>你那个不是上亿（流量）的吗</s>
<time>48_00:02:21,886 --> 00:02:24,406</time>
<s>这个就是上百上千（流量）的</s>
<time>49_00:02:24,766 --> 00:02:26,926</time>
<s>但是你有这么一部分节目</s>
<time>50_00:02:27,286 --> 00:02:29,086</time>
<s>有一部分小众节目</s>
<time>51_00:02:29,446 --> 00:02:30,526</time>
<s>这样的话你说起来呢</s>
<time>52_00:02:30,886 --> 00:02:31,966</time>
<s>你也算都照顾到了</s>
<time>53_00:02:33,406 --> 00:02:34,846</time>
<s>因为咱们出版是这样</s>
<time>54_00:02:35,206 --> 00:02:36,286</time>
<s>出版是做到这样的</s>
<time>55_00:02:36,646 --> 00:02:37,726</time>
<s>对最好他们那个</s>
<time>56_00:02:38,086 --> 00:02:39,526</time>
<s>上亿流量的那些节目呢</s>
<time>57_00:02:39,886 --> 00:02:41,686</time>
<s>赚的钱能用来养活</s>
<time>58_00:02:42,046 --> 00:02:43,126</time>
<s>我们这样的节目</s>
<time>59_00:02:43,486 --> 00:02:44,926</time>
<s>您不也上亿了吗</s>
<time>60_00:02:45,286 --> 00:02:46,366</time>
<s>你可不要谦虚</s>
<time>61_00:02:47,446 --> 00:02:48,886</time>
<s>当然另外还有一个</s>
<time>62_00:02:49,246 --> 00:02:51,406</time>
<s>这是中国人尤其是信这个</s>
<time>63_00:02:51,766 --> 00:02:54,646</time>
<s>就是你进入化境以后</s>
<time>64_00:02:55,006 --> 00:02:58,246</time>
<s>人家各种不同的人从您那身上</s>
<time>65_00:02:58,606 --> 00:03:01,126</time>
<s>从您的节目中都能够有兴趣</s>
<time>66_00:03:01,486 --> 00:03:02,206</time>
<s>那是完美了</s>
<time>67_00:03:02,566 --> 00:03:02,926</time>
<s>但是呢您看</s>
<time>68_00:03:03,286 --> 00:03:05,086</time>
<s>咱们都知道谁也不应该把</s>
<time>69_00:03:05,446 --> 00:03:06,886</time>
<s>爱好没有高低之分</s>
<time>70_00:03:07,246 --> 00:03:08,686</time>
<s>谁也不应该把自己的爱好</s>
<time>71_00:03:09,046 --> 00:03:09,766</time>
<s>强加给别人</s>
<time>72_00:03:10,126 --> 00:03:10,486</time>
<s>但是你知道吗</s>
<time>73_00:03:10,846 --> 00:03:12,286</time>
<s>有的时候心里太喜欢了</s>
<time>74_00:03:12,646 --> 00:03:14,806</time>
<s>太喜欢了我往往有一个不服</s>
<time>75_00:03:15,166 --> 00:03:16,966</time>
<s>就是我不信你们不喜欢</s>
<time>76_00:03:17,326 --> 00:03:17,686</time>
<s>对</s>
<time>77_00:03:18,046 --> 00:03:19,126</time>
<s>我真的不信</s>
<time>78_00:03:19,486 --> 00:03:19,846</time>
<s>我觉得</s>
<time>79_00:03:20,206 --> 00:03:21,646</time>
<s>您比如说我给您报告</s>
<time>80_00:03:22,006 --> 00:03:22,366</time>
<s>一个什么事</s>
<time>81_00:03:22,726 --> 00:03:23,806</time>
<s>我有一个什么爱好呢</s>
<time>82_00:03:24,166 --> 00:03:25,966</time>
<s>我喜欢这个书法</s>
<time>83_00:03:26,326 --> 00:03:26,686</time>
<s>书法</s>
<time>84_00:03:27,046 --> 00:03:27,766</time>
<s>对欣赏书法</s>
<time>85_00:03:28,126 --> 00:03:29,206</time>
<s>我写字跟狗爬的似的</s>
<time>86_00:03:29,566 --> 00:03:29,926</time>
<s>不能动笔的</s>
<time>87_00:03:30,286 --> 00:03:31,006</time>
<s>没关系甬客气</s>
<time>88_00:03:31,366 --> 00:03:33,166</time>
<s>我就是被这个书法的这个美</s>
<time>89_00:03:33,526 --> 00:03:34,966</time>
<s>我就觉得像是什么呢</s>
<time>90_00:03:36,046 --> 00:03:37,126</time>
<s>就是每次看到</s>
<time>91_00:03:37,486 --> 00:03:39,646</time>
<s>我这个神为之夺</s>
<time>92_00:03:40,006 --> 00:03:41,446</time>
<s>就是以至于什么呢</s>
<time>93_00:03:43,246 --> 00:03:44,326</time>
<s>你说得真高雅</s>
<time>94_00:03:44,686 --> 00:03:45,406</time>
<s>这个以至于</s>
<time>95_00:03:45,766 --> 00:03:47,566</time>
<s>我给你们讲一个丢人的事</s>
<time>96_00:03:47,926 --> 00:03:51,526</time>
<s>就是说颜真卿的《祭侄稿》</s>
<time>97_00:03:51,886 --> 00:03:53,326</time>
<s>前一阵在东京</s>
<time>98_00:03:53,686 --> 00:03:54,046</time>
<s>日本</s>
<time>99_00:03:54,766 --> 00:03:56,926</time>
<s>不是台湾岛上还有一些争议嘛</s>
<time>100_00:03:57,286 --> 00:03:58,366</time>
<s>就是能不能借出去</s>
<time>101_00:03:58,726 --> 00:04:00,526</time>
<s>但是我只知道十年二十年</s>
<time>102_00:04:00,886 --> 00:04:02,326</time>
<s>不会拿出来展一次</s>
<time>103_00:04:02,686 --> 00:04:04,846</time>
<s>所以机票也不便宜</s>
<time>104_00:04:05,206 --> 00:04:06,646</time>
<s>我就为了看这个</s>
<time>105_00:04:07,006 --> 00:04:07,726</time>
<s>专门去了一趟</s>
<time>106_00:04:08,446 --> 00:04:08,806</time>
<s>去了趟</s>
<time>107_00:04:09,166 --> 00:04:09,886</time>
<s>多少人去看</s>
<time>108_00:04:10,246 --> 00:04:10,606</time>
<s>不光我</s>
<time>109_00:04:10,966 --> 00:04:12,046</time>
<s>就很多中国人专程</s>
<time>110_00:04:12,406 --> 00:04:14,206</time>
<s>坐飞机去日本看</s>
<time>111_00:04:14,566 --> 00:04:16,366</time>
<s>那个人排的那个队</s>
<time>112_00:04:16,726 --> 00:04:19,246</time>
<s>你只能看几秒钟</s>
<time>113_00:04:19,606 --> 00:04:20,326</time>
<s>那就跟仪式一样</s>
<time>114_00:04:20,686 --> 00:04:21,406</time>
<s>跟朝圣一样</s>
<time>115_00:04:21,766 --> 00:04:23,926</time>
<s>因为那个排一个队半个小时</s>
<time>116_00:04:24,286 --> 00:04:24,646</time>
<s>对了</s>
<time>117_00:04:25,006 --> 00:04:25,726</time>
<s>到那个《祭侄稿》</s>
<time>118_00:04:26,086 --> 00:04:26,446</time>
<s>那个日本我看着</s>
<time>119_00:04:26,806 --> 00:04:27,526</time>
<s>穿的像警察制服</s>
<time>120_00:04:27,886 --> 00:04:28,246</time>
<s>还是工作人员</s>
<time>121_00:04:28,606 --> 00:04:30,046</time>
<s>他就让你走</s>
<time>122_00:04:30,406 --> 00:04:31,846</time>
<s>因为你得让大家都有机会</s>
<time>123_00:04:32,206 --> 00:04:32,926</time>
<s>站在那儿不行</s>
<time>124_00:04:33,286 --> 00:04:34,726</time>
<s>你知道因为太激动了</s>
<time>125_00:04:35,086 --> 00:04:37,606</time>
<s>所以呢第一看</s>
<time>126_00:04:37,966 --> 00:04:40,126</time>
<s>我两眼一片空白</s>
<time>127_00:04:40,486 --> 00:04:41,566</time>
<s>因为只有几秒钟你知道吗</s>
<time>128_00:04:43,006 --> 00:04:45,166</time>
<s>就是什么都没看就走了</s>
<time>129_00:04:45,526 --> 00:04:45,886</time>
<s>又排一遍</s>
<time>130_00:04:46,246 --> 00:04:48,766</time>
<s>就想不行再排一遍</s>
<time>131_00:04:49,126 --> 00:04:50,566</time>
<s>再排一遍排半个小时</s>
<time>132_00:04:50,926 --> 00:04:51,646</time>
<s>半个小时我就想着</s>
<time>133_00:04:52,006 --> 00:04:53,806</time>
<s>这几秒钟我怎么使用</s>
<time>134_00:04:54,166 --> 00:04:54,886</time>
<s>我就第一</s>
<time>135_00:04:55,246 --> 00:04:56,686</time>
<s>我要看看那个纸</s>
<time>136_00:04:57,406 --> 00:04:58,846</time>
<s>因为复制品你也可以看</s>
<time>137_00:04:59,206 --> 00:05:01,366</time>
<s>所以我要跟它接通那个气</s>
<time>138_00:05:01,726 --> 00:05:03,166</time>
<s>那真的是颜真卿的</s>
<time>139_00:05:03,526 --> 00:05:05,326</time>
<s>亲笔的这个手泽</s>
<time>140_00:05:05,686 --> 00:05:07,126</time>
<s>然后我要把它那个字</s>
<time>141_00:05:07,486 --> 00:05:08,566</time>
<s>怎么怎么看一遍</s>
<time>142_00:05:08,926 --> 00:05:10,726</time>
<s>然后我觉得我用尽了平生</s>
<time>143_00:05:11,086 --> 00:05:12,166</time>
<s>全部的力气</s>
<time>144_00:05:12,526 --> 00:05:13,246</time>
<s>到了那儿轮到我了</s>
<time>145_00:05:15,406 --> 00:05:17,926</time>
<s>就是你知道在十几秒钟之内吧</s>
<time>146_00:05:18,286 --> 00:05:19,006</time>
<s>几秒也许夸张</s>
<time>147_00:05:19,366 --> 00:05:19,726</time>
<s>十几秒钟之内</s>
<time>148_00:05:20,086 --> 00:05:21,526</time>
<s>完成我的这么多期许</s>
<time>149_00:05:21,886 --> 00:05:22,966</time>
<s>然后我就看着</s>
<time>150_00:05:23,326 --> 00:05:25,846</time>
<s>那个发暗的那个纸我就想</s>
<time>151_00:05:26,206 --> 00:05:27,646</time>
<s>而且你心里还得抒情</s>
<time>152_00:05:28,006 --> 00:05:29,446</time>
<s>就是这是颜真卿</s>
<time>153_00:05:29,806 --> 00:05:30,166</time>
<s>也是祭奠</s>
<time>154_00:05:31,246 --> 00:05:31,966</time>
<s>以至于他是祭奠他的侄子</s>
<time>155_00:05:32,326 --> 00:05:34,126</time>
<s>悲伤他侄子这个死了嘛</s>
<time>156_00:05:34,486 --> 00:05:35,566</time>
<s>据日本的研究者有说</s>
<time>157_00:05:35,926 --> 00:05:36,646</time>
<s>就写到最后</s>
<time>158_00:05:37,006 --> 00:05:38,446</time>
<s>他都热泪盈眶了</s>
<time>159_00:05:38,806 --> 00:05:39,886</time>
<s>所以那个涂改的错字</s>
<time>160_00:05:40,246 --> 00:05:41,326</time>
<s>就越来越多</s>
<time>161_00:05:41,686 --> 00:05:43,486</time>
<s>然后我就这么样看到最后</s>
<time>162_00:05:43,846 --> 00:05:45,646</time>
<s>日本那个警察还是工作人员</s>
<time>163_00:05:46,006 --> 00:05:46,726</time>
<s>已经拽着我了</s>
<time>164_00:05:47,086 --> 00:05:48,526</time>
<s>你知道当人特别着急的时候</s>
<time>165_00:05:48,886 --> 00:05:50,326</time>
<s>不是因为我多么爱哭</s>
<time>166_00:05:50,686 --> 00:05:53,206</time>
<s>而是这种那种情急之下</s>
<time>167_00:05:53,926 --> 00:05:55,006</time>
<s>我就热泪盈眶</s>
<time>168_00:05:55,366 --> 00:05:56,086</time>
<s>这个拉着我就是</s>
<time>169_00:05:56,446 --> 00:05:57,526</time>
<s>当时很丢人</s>
<time>170_00:05:57,886 --> 00:05:58,606</time>
<s>就是拽着</s>
<time>171_00:05:58,966 --> 00:06:00,046</time>
<s>因为我觉得这一辈子</s>
<time>172_00:06:00,406 --> 00:06:01,126</time>
<s>可能就这一次</s>
<time>173_00:06:01,486 --> 00:06:02,566</time>
<s>再没有了</s>
<time>174_00:06:02,926 --> 00:06:04,366</time>
<s>就永别了</s>
<time>175_00:06:04,726 --> 00:06:06,886</time>
<s>我就这样给拽走的</s>
<time>176_00:06:07,246 --> 00:06:09,046</time>
<s>那你要去台湾地区还可以再看</s>
<time>177_00:06:09,406 --> 00:06:10,846</time>
<s>在台湾地区也是十年二十年</s>
<time>178_00:06:11,206 --> 00:06:12,286</time>
<s>他也不拿出来展一回</s>
<time>179_00:06:12,646 --> 00:06:13,006</time>
<s>把它放在库房里</s>
<time>180_00:06:13,366 --> 00:06:13,726</time>
<s>我为什么说</s>
<time>181_00:06:14,086 --> 00:06:15,166</time>
<s>我说我这个心里</s>
<time>182_00:06:15,526 --> 00:06:16,606</time>
<s>一直有个不服</s>
<time>183_00:06:16,966 --> 00:06:19,486</time>
<s>因为我也不是什么知识分子</s>
<time>184_00:06:19,846 --> 00:06:20,206</time>
<s>从小的教养</s>
<time>185_00:06:20,566 --> 00:06:22,006</time>
<s>也是个就是个大俗人嘛</s>
<time>186_00:06:22,366 --> 00:06:24,886</time>
<s>您可以不说欣赏这个书法</s>
<time>187_00:06:25,246 --> 00:06:26,326</time>
<s>这是一个故事</s>
<time>188_00:06:26,686 --> 00:06:28,486</time>
<s>你比如说谁都知道颜真卿</s>
<time>189_00:06:28,846 --> 00:06:31,726</time>
<s>谁都知道练这个颜体字</s>
<time>190_00:06:32,086 --> 00:06:32,446</time>
<s>可是你们知道</s>
<time>191_00:06:32,806 --> 00:06:35,326</time>
<s>这是一个什么样的故事吗</s>
<time>192_00:06:35,686 --> 00:06:36,766</time>
<s>就当时安禄山</s>
<time>193_00:06:37,126 --> 00:06:39,646</time>
<s>这个就是造反了</s>
<time>194_00:06:40,006 --> 00:06:40,726</time>
<s>最后颜真卿挑头</s>
<time>195_00:06:41,086 --> 00:06:41,806</time>
<s>一帮文人挑头</s>
<time>196_00:06:42,166 --> 00:06:44,686</time>
<s>说反这个安禄山</s>
<time>197_00:06:45,046 --> 00:06:48,286</time>
<s>然后他的兄弟叫颜杲卿</s>
<time>198_00:06:48,646 --> 00:06:50,806</time>
<s>然后他的侄子叫颜季明</s>
<time>199_00:06:51,166 --> 00:06:52,246</time>
<s>这个就是等于说</s>
<time>200_00:06:52,606 --> 00:06:54,046</time>
<s>他的兄弟的儿子</s>
<time>201_00:06:54,406 --> 00:06:55,126</time>
<s>就是颜真卿的侄子</s>
<time>202_00:06:55,486 --> 00:06:58,006</time>
<s>这颜季明就在兵临城下</s>
<time>203_00:06:58,366 --> 00:06:59,806</time>
<s>不投降脑袋砍下来了</s>
<time>204_00:07:00,166 --> 00:07:01,246</time>
<s>最后这个城破了</s>
<time>205_00:07:01,606 --> 00:07:03,766</time>
<s>这个颜卿也被抓住了</s>
<time>206_00:07:04,126 --> 00:07:04,846</time>
<s>押到洛阳</s>
<time>207_00:07:05,206 --> 00:07:08,086</time>
<s>对着这个安禄山骂声不绝</s>
<time>208_00:07:08,446 --> 00:07:10,246</time>
<s>最后是千刀万刷</s>
<time>209_00:07:10,606 --> 00:07:12,406</time>
<s>到最后安禄山败了</s>
<time>210_00:07:12,766 --> 00:07:14,206</time>
<s>然后的颜真卿家里的人</s>
<time>211_00:07:14,566 --> 00:07:16,006</time>
<s>就又到那儿去找</s>
<time>212_00:07:16,366 --> 00:07:18,166</time>
<s>找到了这个颜季明</s>
<time>213_00:07:18,526 --> 00:07:19,966</time>
<s>就是他侄子的人头</s>
<time>214_00:07:20,326 --> 00:07:21,406</time>
<s>他是对着这个</s>
<time>215_00:07:21,766 --> 00:07:25,006</time>
<s>装着他侄子人头的这个棺木</s>
<time>216_00:07:25,366 --> 00:07:27,166</time>
<s>写下的这个《祭侄稿》这个草稿</s>
<time>217_00:07:27,526 --> 00:07:28,966</time>
<s>所以这个情绪激动</s>
<time>218_00:07:29,326 --> 00:07:30,766</time>
<s>不能自己</s>
<time>219_00:07:31,126 --> 00:07:31,486</time>
<s>为什么这个是</s>
<time>220_00:07:31,846 --> 00:07:32,926</time>
<s>天下第二行书</s>
<time>221_00:07:33,286 --> 00:07:33,646</time>
<s>完全不一样</s>
<time>222_00:07:34,006 --> 00:07:36,526</time>
<s>因为它记录了当时他的心情</s>
<time>223_00:07:36,886 --> 00:07:39,046</time>
<s>就这个涂涂改改涂涂改改</s>
<time>224_00:07:39,406 --> 00:07:41,566</time>
<s>这就是到了心手两忘</s>
<time>225_00:07:41,926 --> 00:07:44,446</time>
<s>是“无意于佳乃佳</s>
<time>226_00:07:44,806 --> 00:07:46,606</time>
<s>他不再是卖弄书法了</s>
<time>227_00:07:46,966 --> 00:07:47,326</time>
<s>对</s>
<time>228_00:07:47,686 --> 00:07:48,046</time>
<s>这个到最后</s>
<time>229_00:07:48,406 --> 00:07:49,486</time>
<s>他根本不可能考虑书法了</s>
<time>230_00:07:49,846 --> 00:07:51,286</time>
<s>对哗就给写下来</s>
<time>231_00:07:51,646 --> 00:07:53,806</time>
<s>所以而且关于这个颜真卿</s>
<time>232_00:07:54,166 --> 00:07:56,686</time>
<s>几年之后其实是有人陷害他</s>
<time>233_00:07:57,046 --> 00:07:59,206</time>
<s>又有人造反叛乱</s>
<time>234_00:07:59,566 --> 00:08:01,726</time>
<s>然后就有人可能是嫉恨他的人</s>
<time>235_00:08:02,086 --> 00:08:02,446</time>
<s>大臣</s>
<time>236_00:08:02,806 --> 00:08:05,326</time>
<s>说派他去劝降</s>
<time>237_00:08:05,686 --> 00:08:07,126</time>
<s>明知有去无回的</s>
<time>238_00:08:07,486 --> 00:08:09,286</time>
<s>结果颜真卿就去了</s>
<time>239_00:08:09,646 --> 00:08:11,446</time>
<s>去了之后自然就被这个叛军</s>
<time>240_00:08:11,806 --> 00:08:12,166</time>
<s>给扣住了</s>
<time>241_00:08:12,526 --> 00:08:14,686</time>
<s>叛军这时候让他投降</s>
<time>242_00:08:15,046 --> 00:08:15,406</time>
<s>然后这时候</s>
<time>243_00:08:15,766 --> 00:08:16,846</time>
<s>颜真卿跟他们讲什么</s>
<time>244_00:08:17,206 --> 00:08:19,366</time>
<s>你们知道我哥哥是谁吗</s>
<time>245_00:08:20,086 --> 00:08:21,886</time>
<s>我的哥哥是颜杲卿</s>
<time>246_00:08:22,246 --> 00:08:24,406</time>
<s>最后颜真卿就被勒死</s>
<time>247_00:08:24,766 --> 00:08:26,926</time>
<s>就这个一门忠烈</s>
<time>248_00:08:27,286 --> 00:08:29,446</time>
<s>我就觉得我们这么样的</s>
<time>249_00:08:29,806 --> 00:08:30,886</time>
<s>去跟大家讲这个</s>
<time>250_00:08:31,246 --> 00:08:32,686</time>
<s>这难道是很文化</s>
<time>251_00:08:33,046 --> 00:08:35,206</time>
<s>就是说很不好懂吗</s>
<time>252_00:08:35,566 --> 00:08:35,926</time>
<s>好懂</s>
<time>253_00:08:36,286 --> 00:08:37,366</time>
<s>这个颜真卿</s>
<time>254_00:08:37,726 --> 00:08:39,526</time>
<s>我们小时候都练过他的字</s>
<time>255_00:08:39,886 --> 00:08:40,966</time>
<s>我小时候练两个</s>
<time>256_00:08:41,326 --> 00:08:42,046</time>
<s>颜体和柳体</s>
<time>257_00:08:43,486 --> 00:08:45,286</time>
<s>那是唐代两大高峰</s>
<time>258_00:08:45,646 --> 00:08:47,806</time>
<s>那我不是太喜欢颜真卿</s>
<time>259_00:08:48,166 --> 00:08:48,886</time>
<s>我觉得他肥肥的</s>
<time>260_00:08:49,246 --> 00:08:51,766</time>
<s>字体比较肥比较胖</s>
<time>261_00:08:52,126 --> 00:08:53,206</time>
<s>有点像我现在这个样子</s>
<time>262_00:08:54,286 --> 00:08:56,446</time>
<s>然后这个比较中庸</s>
<time>263_00:08:56,806 --> 00:08:57,526</time>
<s>但我不是太喜欢</s>
<time>264_00:08:57,886 --> 00:08:58,966</time>
<s>我喜欢柳体那种</s>
<time>265_00:08:59,686 --> 00:09:00,046</time>
<s>秀</s>
<time>266_00:09:00,406 --> 00:09:05,086</time>
<s>这个清秀峻切的这种风格</s>
<time>267_00:09:05,446 --> 00:09:08,686</time>
<s>但是你看那个祭他侄子那个</s>
<time>268_00:09:09,046 --> 00:09:09,766</time>
<s>《祭侄稿》</s>
<time>269_00:09:10,126 --> 00:09:11,206</time>
<s>那个完全跟他那个</s>
<time>270_00:09:11,566 --> 00:09:12,646</time>
<s>完全不一样</s>
<time>271_00:09:13,006 --> 00:09:14,446</time>
<s>他是整个生命的</s>
<time>272_00:09:14,806 --> 00:09:16,246</time>
<s>悲愤的流露</s>
<time>273_00:09:16,606 --> 00:09:17,326</time>
<s>所以他一气呵成</s>
<time>274_00:09:17,686 --> 00:09:19,126</time>
<s>但是由于被痛苦</s>
<time>275_00:09:19,486 --> 00:09:20,566</time>
<s>所不断地打断</s>
<time>276_00:09:20,926 --> 00:09:22,006</time>
<s>所以涂改</s>
<time>277_00:09:22,366 --> 00:09:24,526</time>
<s>跟我过去对颜真卿的</s>
<time>278_00:09:24,886 --> 00:09:27,766</time>
<s>这个感觉完全相反</s>
<time>279_00:09:28,126 --> 00:09:30,646</time>
<s>我重新认识了这个书法家</s>
<time>280_00:09:32,446 --> 00:09:34,966</time>
<s>唐代的书法就是牛</s>
<time>281_00:09:35,326 --> 00:09:38,926</time>
<s>跟宋代真的是差得太远了</s>
<time>282_00:09:39,286 --> 00:09:39,646</time>
<s>你知道为什么</s>
<time>283_00:09:40,006 --> 00:09:41,806</time>
<s>宋代也有很多牛人物</s>
<time>284_00:09:42,166 --> 00:09:44,326</time>
<s>宋代苏轼什么什么</s>
<time>285_00:09:44,686 --> 00:09:45,406</time>
<s>苏黄米蔡</s>
<time>286_00:09:45,766 --> 00:09:46,846</time>
<s>苏黄米蔡对吧</s>
<time>287_00:09:47,206 --> 00:09:49,366</time>
<s>可是为什么唐代要比它高一大截</s>
<time>288_00:09:49,726 --> 00:09:50,806</time>
<s>这刚才我听你那个</s>
<time>289_00:09:51,166 --> 00:09:51,526</time>
<s>我非常感动</s>
<time>290_00:09:52,966 --> 00:09:54,766</time>
<s>而且就证明我自个儿</s>
<time>291_00:09:55,126 --> 00:09:56,206</time>
<s>知识基础之低</s>
<time>292_00:09:56,926 --> 00:09:57,286</time>
<s>一个是</s>
<time>293_00:09:57,646 --> 00:09:59,806</time>
<s>这真的一个是对颜真卿的书法</s>
<time>294_00:10:00,166 --> 00:10:01,606</time>
<s>我了解得也少</s>
<time>295_00:10:01,966 --> 00:10:03,766</time>
<s>我自个儿书法也不怎么样</s>
<time>296_00:10:04,126 --> 00:10:08,086</time>
<s>我小时候也是临这个《玄秘塔》</s>
<time>297_00:10:08,446 --> 00:10:10,246</time>
<s>柳公权的那个</s>
<time>298_00:10:10,606 --> 00:10:13,126</time>
<s>后来比如说看王羲之的这个</s>
<time>299_00:10:13,486 --> 00:10:16,366</time>
<s>什么他那个最有名的是</s>
<time>300_00:10:16,726 --> 00:10:18,166</time>
<s>《兰亭集序》</s>
<time>301_00:10:18,526 --> 00:10:20,686</time>
<s>但是对中国这个书法</s>
<time>302_00:10:21,046 --> 00:10:23,206</time>
<s>我倒是听到过一些说法</s>
<time>303_00:10:25,006 --> 00:10:27,526</time>
<s>一个是我听到过这杨振宁先生</s>
<time>304_00:10:27,886 --> 00:10:30,406</time>
<s>有一次谈中国文化的时候</s>
<time>305_00:10:30,766 --> 00:10:31,126</time>
<s>他认为</s>
<time>306_00:10:32,926 --> 00:10:34,366</time>
<s>如果要是</s>
<time>307_00:10:34,726 --> 00:10:37,246</time>
<s>这个不完全是他的原文</s>
<time>308_00:10:39,046 --> 00:10:41,206</time>
<s>最代表中国古代文化特点的</s>
<time>309_00:10:41,566 --> 00:10:42,286</time>
<s>您还得研究《易经》</s>
<time>310_00:10:44,446 --> 00:10:46,246</time>
<s>一个是他认为最能代表</s>
<time>311_00:10:46,606 --> 00:10:49,486</time>
<s>中国文化的形式</s>
<time>312_00:10:49,846 --> 00:10:50,206</time>
<s>就是书法</s>
<time>313_00:10:51,646 --> 00:10:53,806</time>
<s>这个书法确实挺绝</s>
<time>314_00:10:54,166 --> 00:10:55,246</time>
<s>这个书法</s>
<time>315_00:10:55,606 --> 00:10:57,046</time>
<s>因为中国汉字的</s>
<time>316_00:10:57,406 --> 00:10:59,926</time>
<s>这个符号性特别强</s>
<time>317_00:11:00,286 --> 00:11:02,086</time>
<s>所以它就是符号</s>
<time>318_00:11:02,446 --> 00:11:06,046</time>
<s>它直接的直观的效用很有限</s>
<time>319_00:11:06,406 --> 00:11:07,846</time>
<s>但你要说没有吧又有</s>
<time>320_00:11:08,206 --> 00:11:11,446</time>
<s>你像墨色深墨色浅是吧</s>
<time>321_00:11:11,806 --> 00:11:13,606</time>
<s>是直还是直中有圆</s>
<time>322_00:11:13,966 --> 00:11:15,766</time>
<s>方中有圆圆中有方</s>
<time>323_00:11:16,126 --> 00:11:17,206</time>
<s>是骨头是肉</s>
<time>324_00:11:17,566 --> 00:11:20,446</time>
<s>当然又有很多很多的各种说法</s>
<time>325_00:11:20,806 --> 00:11:22,606</time>
<s>我就觉得这个和中国的</s>
<time>326_00:11:22,966 --> 00:11:24,766</time>
<s>对这个文艺的</s>
<time>327_00:11:25,126 --> 00:11:25,846</time>
<s>这对不起</s>
<time>328_00:11:26,206 --> 00:11:27,286</time>
<s>这是您内行</s>
<time>329_00:11:27,646 --> 00:11:30,166</time>
<s>这个对文艺的认识有关</s>
<time>330_00:11:30,526 --> 00:11:32,686</time>
<s>因为中国人其实是比较强调</s>
<time>331_00:11:33,046 --> 00:11:35,566</time>
<s>就是这个作者的精神状态</s>
<time>332_00:11:37,006 --> 00:11:38,806</time>
<s>“诗言志是不是</s>
<time>333_00:11:39,166 --> 00:11:40,966</time>
<s>然后又是“乐而不淫“什么的</s>
<time>334_00:11:41,326 --> 00:11:43,486</time>
<s>他就他都把它作为一个</s>
<time>335_00:11:43,846 --> 00:11:46,366</time>
<s>创作者的这种精神生活</s>
<time>336_00:11:46,726 --> 00:11:50,326</time>
<s>精神境界精神需求</s>
<time>337_00:11:50,686 --> 00:11:53,566</time>
<s>精神的趋向的一个表现</s>
<time>338_00:11:53,926 --> 00:11:55,006</time>
<s>有个话叫一字见心</s>
<time>339_00:11:55,366 --> 00:11:56,086</time>
<s>对对了</s>
<time>340_00:11:56,806 --> 00:11:57,526</time>
<s>就是这个</s>
<time>341_00:11:57,886 --> 00:11:58,246</time>
<s>见性情</s>
<time>342_00:11:58,606 --> 00:12:00,406</time>
<s>所以你要是往深了说吧</s>
<time>343_00:12:00,766 --> 00:12:01,486</time>
<s>我这个都看到过</s>
<time>344_00:12:02,566 --> 00:12:04,006</time>
<s>有的人从字上</s>
<time>345_00:12:04,366 --> 00:12:05,806</time>
<s>可以诊断这人的病</s>
<time>346_00:12:06,166 --> 00:12:07,966</time>
<s>有的中医说看完了以后知道</s>
<time>347_00:12:08,326 --> 00:12:08,686</time>
<s>说这人死不了</s>
<time>348_00:12:09,046 --> 00:12:10,486</time>
<s>不同的人写出来同一个字</s>
<time>349_00:12:10,846 --> 00:12:13,006</time>
<s>身体状况是完全不一样的</s>
<time>350_00:12:13,366 --> 00:12:14,446</time>
<s>但是更重要的</s>
<time>351_00:12:14,806 --> 00:12:16,246</time>
<s>当然你直接表达性情</s>
<time>352_00:12:16,606 --> 00:12:19,126</time>
<s>你的愤怒你的喜乐</s>
<time>353_00:12:19,486 --> 00:12:19,846</time>
<s>你的品德</s>
<time>354_00:12:20,206 --> 00:12:21,286</time>
<s>是在你字里面</s>
<time>355_00:12:21,646 --> 00:12:23,446</time>
<s>是完全能够展示出来的</s>
<time>356_00:12:23,806 --> 00:12:25,606</time>
<s>你刚才讲到那个</s>
<time>357_00:12:25,966 --> 00:12:26,326</time>
<s>我为什么也</s>
<time>358_00:12:26,686 --> 00:12:28,126</time>
<s>就是非常认同你这个</s>
<time>359_00:12:28,486 --> 00:12:29,926</time>
<s>就包括我去法国</s>
<time>360_00:12:30,286 --> 00:12:31,726</time>
<s>我去看那个</s>
<time>361_00:12:32,086 --> 00:12:34,246</time>
<s>去看梵高的那个星空</s>
<time>362_00:12:34,606 --> 00:12:35,326</time>
<s>我真的也是快掉眼泪了</s>
<time>363_00:12:35,686 --> 00:12:36,406</time>
<s>就是那个颜色</s>
<time>364_00:12:36,766 --> 00:12:37,846</time>
<s>就是说为什么复制得再好</s>
<time>365_00:12:38,206 --> 00:12:39,646</time>
<s>你看原迹你还是会感动</s>
<time>366_00:12:40,006 --> 00:12:41,086</time>
<s>我是觉得你是跟</s>
<time>367_00:12:41,446 --> 00:12:41,806</time>
<s>你是感觉到</s>
<time>368_00:12:42,166 --> 00:12:42,886</time>
<s>超越了一个时空</s>
<time>369_00:12:43,246 --> 00:12:43,966</time>
<s>跟这个人有对话了</s>
<time>370_00:12:44,326 --> 00:12:45,406</time>
<s>我在想</s>
<time>371_00:12:46,846 --> 00:12:47,926</time>
<s>我不是迷信的人</s>
<time>372_00:12:48,286 --> 00:12:48,646</time>
<s>但是我宁愿</s>
<time>373_00:12:49,006 --> 00:12:49,726</time>
<s>用一个迷信的说法</s>
<time>374_00:12:50,086 --> 00:12:51,886</time>
<s>就是像看那个叫《COCO》</s>
<time>375_00:12:52,246 --> 00:12:53,326</time>
<s>叫什么《环球梦游记》</s>
<time>376_00:12:53,686 --> 00:12:55,846</time>
<s>就是这个人他在另外一个世界</s>
<time>377_00:12:56,206 --> 00:12:56,926</time>
<s>但是如果不被</s>
<time>378_00:12:57,286 --> 00:12:58,726</time>
<s>现在的世界的人所店记</s>
<time>379_00:12:59,086 --> 00:13:00,166</time>
<s>那他是真的死了</s>
<time>380_00:13:00,526 --> 00:13:01,606</time>
<s>他如果还有一个人</s>
<time>381_00:13:01,966 --> 00:13:03,406</time>
<s>在世界上还被纪念</s>
<time>382_00:13:03,766 --> 00:13:04,846</time>
<s>就是他还永远是活着</s>
<time>383_00:13:05,206 --> 00:13:05,926</time>
<s>是另外一个意义活着</s>
<time>384_00:13:06,286 --> 00:13:07,006</time>
<s>所以我就想</s>
<time>385_00:13:07,366 --> 00:13:08,807</time>
<s>我在看这个画的时候</s>
<time>386_00:13:10,247 --> 00:13:11,327</time>
<s>只要我还在看这个画</s>
<time>387_00:13:11,687 --> 00:13:12,407</time>
<s>我被它感动</s>
<time>388_00:13:12,767 --> 00:13:13,127</time>
<s>梵高在我的心目中</s>
<time>389_00:13:13,487 --> 00:13:14,567</time>
<s>他就是活着的</s>
<time>390_00:13:14,927 --> 00:13:15,647</time>
<s>另外我又在想</s>
<time>391_00:13:16,007 --> 00:13:17,087</time>
<s>这是梵高一笔一画</s>
<time>392_00:13:17,447 --> 00:13:17,807</time>
<s>画下来的</s>
<time>393_00:13:18,167 --> 00:13:19,607</time>
<s>我现在在跟他</s>
<time>394_00:13:19,967 --> 00:13:21,047</time>
<s>一个超越时空的</s>
<time>395_00:13:21,407 --> 00:13:23,207</time>
<s>一个对话和一个交流</s>
<time>396_00:13:23,567 --> 00:13:25,007</time>
<s>但是对于一个画家</s>
<time>397_00:13:25,367 --> 00:13:26,447</time>
<s>他看复制品</s>
<time>398_00:13:26,807 --> 00:13:30,047</time>
<s>跟他直接面对这个原本</s>
<time>399_00:13:30,407 --> 00:13:31,847</time>
<s>他真的是能够直接看到</s>
<time>400_00:13:32,207 --> 00:13:32,927</time>
<s>他的那个笔触</s>
<time>401_00:13:33,287 --> 00:13:34,007</time>
<s>我们是看不出来的</s>
<time>402_00:13:34,367 --> 00:13:35,447</time>
<s>对他的笔触是有情感的</s>
<time>403_00:13:35,807 --> 00:13:36,527</time>
<s>其实书法也是一样的</s>
<time>404_00:13:36,887 --> 00:13:37,247</time>
<s>真迹</s>
<time>405_00:13:37,607 --> 00:13:38,687</time>
<s>它这个物质信息</s>
<time>406_00:13:39,047 --> 00:13:40,127</time>
<s>和心理信息都有</s>
<time>407_00:13:40,487 --> 00:13:42,647</time>
<s>但是中国人的语言非常简单</s>
<time>408_00:13:43,007 --> 00:13:44,087</time>
<s>你比如说他们古董行里就说</s>
<time>409_00:13:44,447 --> 00:13:45,887</time>
<s>看真的和看复制品</s>
<time>410_00:13:46,247 --> 00:13:47,327</time>
<s>哪怕是高仿的复制品</s>
<time>411_00:13:47,687 --> 00:13:49,847</time>
<s>就是说看真的你才能“得气”</s>
<time>412_00:13:50,927 --> 00:13:52,007</time>
<s>得那个气</s>
<time>413_00:13:52,367 --> 00:13:53,087</time>
<s>中国人就是把主客观</s>
<time>414_00:13:53,447 --> 00:13:54,887</time>
<s>高度统一在了一起</s>
<time>415_00:13:55,247 --> 00:13:55,607</time>
<s>简化了</s>
<time>416_00:13:55,967 --> 00:13:56,687</time>
<s>对我再补充一下</s>
<time>417_00:13:57,047 --> 00:13:58,127</time>
<s>朱老师的意见</s>
<time>418_00:13:58,487 --> 00:13:59,207</time>
<s>他就刚才讲</s>
<time>419_00:13:59,567 --> 00:14:00,287</time>
<s>为什么唐的书法</s>
<time>420_00:14:00,647 --> 00:14:01,727</time>
<s>和宋的书法不一样</s>
<time>421_00:14:02,087 --> 00:14:03,167</time>
<s>因为我们后来也做了一些</s>
<time>422_00:14:03,527 --> 00:14:04,247</time>
<s>关于唐朝的一些专题</s>
<time>423_00:14:04,607 --> 00:14:05,327</time>
<s>我也看了一下</s>
<time>424_00:14:05,687 --> 00:14:06,767</time>
<s>我觉得也很有意思</s>
<time>425_00:14:07,127 --> 00:14:07,847</time>
<s>首先它因为</s>
<time>426_00:14:08,207 --> 00:14:10,727</time>
<s>唐朝它是一个（源于）北方的一个政权圆桌派[看理想】</s>
<time>427_00:14:11,087 --> 00:14:12,167</time>
<s>唐朝它是一个（源于）北方的一个政权</s>
<time>428_00:14:12,527 --> 00:14:13,247</time>
<s>唐朝它是一个（源于）北方的一个政权圆桌派[看理想】</s>
<time>429_00:14:13,607 --> 00:14:13,967</time>
<s>唐朝它是一个（源于）北方的一个政权</s>
<time>430_00:14:14,327 --> 00:14:15,407</time>
<s>就是都是在陕西</s>
<time>431_00:14:15,767 --> 00:14:17,567</time>
<s>就是说本身的这个北方政权</s>
<time>432_00:14:17,927 --> 00:14:18,647</time>
<s>他是一个雄强的</s>
<time>433_00:14:19,007 --> 00:14:19,727</time>
<s>这样一个性格</s>
