<time>431_00:14:37,726 --> 00:14:39,886</time>
<s>你看像从经济的角度来讲</s>
<time>432_00:14:40,246 --> 00:14:40,966</time>
<s>就是中国古代</s>
<time>433_00:14:41,326 --> 00:14:43,846</time>
<s>没有养老保险时候的一种方法</s>
<time>434_00:14:44,206 --> 00:14:46,366</time>
<s>然后你再看这张爱玲讲的</s>
<time>435_00:14:46,726 --> 00:14:48,166</time>
<s>她跟她母亲之间的关系</s>
<time>436_00:14:48,526 --> 00:14:49,246</time>
<s>我不禁又想到</s>
<time>437_00:14:49,606 --> 00:14:51,406</time>
<s>今天有些孩子就有这个问题</s>
<time>438_00:14:51,766 --> 00:14:55,366</time>
<s>曾经有一阵父母管不住孩子</s>
<time>439_00:14:55,726 --> 00:14:57,526</time>
<s>你知道现在又有一个新的现象</s>
<time>440_00:14:57,886 --> 00:14:58,246</time>
<s>有的孩子</s>
<time>441_00:14:58,606 --> 00:14:58,966</time>
<s>我觉得真是</s>
<time>442_00:14:59,326 --> 00:15:00,766</time>
<s>就是说父母到那个相亲角</s>
<time>443_00:15:01,126 --> 00:15:02,206</time>
<s>到公园给你相亲</s>
<time>444_00:15:02,566 --> 00:15:04,006</time>
<s>说你就嫁给他</s>
<time>445_00:15:04,366 --> 00:15:05,446</time>
<s>你不从对不对</s>
<time>446_00:15:05,806 --> 00:15:07,246</time>
<s>说是这个独生子女在网上</s>
<time>447_00:15:07,606 --> 00:15:07,966</time>
<s>我看他们就写</s>
<time>448_00:15:08,326 --> 00:15:11,926</time>
<s>他说让你最没法说的一句话</s>
<time>449_00:15:12,286 --> 00:15:14,086</time>
<s>就是父母吵到极处</s>
<time>450_00:15:14,446 --> 00:15:16,966</time>
<s>就是说你现在吃我的喝我的</s>
<time>451_00:15:17,326 --> 00:15:18,766</time>
<s>你就得听我的对吧</s>
<time>452_00:15:19,126 --> 00:15:20,566</time>
<s>听着这个你就有点您</s>
<time>453_00:15:20,926 --> 00:15:22,006</time>
<s>你这个孩子的确是这样</s>
<time>454_00:15:22,366 --> 00:15:23,086</time>
<s>你啃老</s>
<time>455_00:15:23,446 --> 00:15:25,246</time>
<s>你住着他的房子</s>
<time>456_00:15:25,606 --> 00:15:27,046</time>
<s>你甚至你还花着他的钱</s>
<time>457_00:15:28,126 --> 00:15:28,486</time>
<s>你说这个背后</s>
<time>458_00:15:30,646 --> 00:15:31,366</time>
<s>前面父母亲会说</s>
<time>459_00:15:31,726 --> 00:15:34,606</time>
<s>爹妈都是爱你的</s>
<time>460_00:15:34,966 --> 00:15:36,406</time>
<s>然后你吃我们的喝我们的</s>
<time>461_00:15:36,766 --> 00:15:37,846</time>
<s>你不听我们的还行</s>
<time>462_00:15:38,206 --> 00:15:40,006</time>
<s>你说这家伙恩威并施的</s>
<time>463_00:15:40,366 --> 00:15:41,806</time>
<s>确实这个背后我才发现</s>
<time>464_00:15:42,166 --> 00:15:43,246</time>
<s>就是人跟人之间</s>
<time>465_00:15:43,606 --> 00:15:46,486</time>
<s>供养关系是个很要命的关系</s>
<time>466_00:15:46,846 --> 00:15:48,646</time>
<s>你不管说咱是什么血亲</s>
<time>467_00:15:49,006 --> 00:15:51,166</time>
<s>所以这就是为什么到最后</s>
<time>468_00:15:51,526 --> 00:15:54,766</time>
<s>每个人的经济自由财务自由</s>
<time>469_00:15:55,126 --> 00:15:58,726</time>
<s>这是所有其他的自由的前提基础</s>
<time>470_00:15:59,086 --> 00:16:01,966</time>
<s>你不要说那个我是90后00后</s>
<time>471_00:16:02,326 --> 00:16:03,046</time>
<s>我要有个性</s>
<time>472_00:16:03,406 --> 00:16:05,926</time>
<s>我们是新一代的人现代人</s>
<time>473_00:16:06,286 --> 00:16:08,086</time>
<s>你们那些50后60后70后</s>
<time>474_00:16:08,446 --> 00:16:10,246</time>
<s>都太老了</s>
<time>475_00:16:10,606 --> 00:16:13,486</time>
<s>你们不懂这些权利和自由</s>
<time>476_00:16:14,926 --> 00:16:17,086</time>
<s>但是如果这些年轻人</s>
<time>477_00:16:17,446 --> 00:16:19,606</time>
<s>他个人没有这个自己的</s>
<time>478_00:16:21,766 --> 00:16:22,846</time>
<s>实现自己的财务自由</s>
<time>479_00:16:23,206 --> 00:16:23,926</time>
<s>经济自由的方式</s>
<time>480_00:16:24,286 --> 00:16:25,006</time>
<s>到最后</s>
<time>481_00:16:25,366 --> 00:16:26,806</time>
<s>那当然父母要你怎么样</s>
<time>482_00:16:27,166 --> 00:16:27,886</time>
<s>就必须要这样子</s>
<time>483_00:16:28,246 --> 00:16:30,046</time>
<s>我听您的信</s>
<time>484_00:16:30,406 --> 00:16:31,126</time>
<s>我还有一个疑问呢</s>
<time>485_00:16:31,486 --> 00:16:32,206</time>
<s>就是你比如说</s>
<time>486_00:16:32,566 --> 00:16:34,006</time>
<s>我记得原来林语堂</s>
<time>487_00:16:34,366 --> 00:16:34,726</time>
<s>就当年那个时候</s>
<time>488_00:16:35,086 --> 00:16:35,446</time>
<s>民国的时候</s>
<time>489_00:16:35,806 --> 00:16:36,886</time>
<s>林语堂歌颂中国</s>
<time>490_00:16:37,246 --> 00:16:37,966</time>
<s>他从西方来的</s>
<time>491_00:16:38,326 --> 00:16:39,046</time>
<s>他歌颂中国</s>
<time>492_00:16:39,406 --> 00:16:40,486</time>
<s>他觉得西方的老人</s>
<time>493_00:16:40,846 --> 00:16:42,646</time>
<s>也许可以在养老院怎么样</s>
<time>494_00:16:43,006 --> 00:16:44,086</time>
<s>他说但是永远也比不上</s>
<time>495_00:16:44,446 --> 00:16:46,606</time>
<s>中国的老人四代同堂</s>
<time>496_00:16:46,966 --> 00:16:48,406</time>
<s>儿媳妇见了他也得问个好</s>
<time>497_00:16:48,766 --> 00:16:49,846</time>
<s>那种家庭的温暖</s>
<time>498_00:16:51,286 --> 00:16:52,006</time>
<s>比如说像您说的</s>
<time>499_00:16:52,366 --> 00:16:53,086</time>
<s>您的两个女儿</s>
<time>500_00:16:53,446 --> 00:16:56,326</time>
<s>假如真听了您的这信里说的了</s>
<time>501_00:16:56,686 --> 00:16:57,406</time>
<s>那你们老年</s>
<time>502_00:16:57,766 --> 00:16:59,926</time>
<s>确实有护士在旁边照顾</s>
<time>503_00:17:00,286 --> 00:17:01,006</time>
<s>你不觉得凄凉吗</s>
<time>504_00:17:02,806 --> 00:17:05,326</time>
<s>所以这个是每一个人</s>
<time>505_00:17:05,686 --> 00:17:07,126</time>
<s>要真的要做到这一点</s>
<time>506_00:17:07,486 --> 00:17:08,926</time>
<s>需要做很多的</s>
<time>507_00:17:09,286 --> 00:17:13,246</time>
<s>那个自己的心理调整</s>
<time>508_00:17:13,606 --> 00:17:15,046</time>
<s>自己去思考的</s>
<time>509_00:17:15,406 --> 00:17:17,566</time>
<s>你说我今天喜不喜欢</s>
<time>510_00:17:17,926 --> 00:17:19,366</time>
<s>我女儿她们跟我们一起生活</s>
<time>511_00:17:19,726 --> 00:17:20,806</time>
<s>那当然肯定喜欢</s>
<time>512_00:17:21,166 --> 00:17:23,326</time>
<s>但是呢我不能够这样子</s>
<time>513_00:17:23,686 --> 00:17:25,486</time>
<s>因为她们也有她们的一生</s>
<time>514_00:17:25,846 --> 00:17:28,366</time>
<s>那么她们现在那么小那么年轻</s>
<time>515_00:17:28,726 --> 00:17:30,886</time>
<s>整个未来还有几十年一百年</s>
<time>516_00:17:31,246 --> 00:17:31,966</time>
<s>那怎么生活</s>
<time>517_00:17:32,326 --> 00:17:34,486</time>
<s>不能说就是根据我的偏好</s>
<time>518_00:17:34,846 --> 00:17:37,366</time>
<s>你们必须得忘记你们是谁</s>
<time>519_00:17:37,726 --> 00:17:39,166</time>
<s>忘记你们自己的兴趣</s>
<time>520_00:17:39,526 --> 00:17:41,686</time>
<s>忘记你们想要过什么样的人生</s>
<time>521_00:17:42,046 --> 00:17:43,126</time>
<s>到我这里来</s>
<time>522_00:17:43,486 --> 00:17:45,646</time>
<s>按照我认为对你最好的</s>
<time>523_00:17:46,006 --> 00:17:46,726</time>
<s>那个人生去做</s>
<time>524_00:17:47,086 --> 00:17:48,886</time>
<s>这个是我知道很多中国的父母亲</s>
<time>525_00:17:49,246 --> 00:17:51,046</time>
<s>这方面是很自私的</s>
<time>526_00:17:51,406 --> 00:17:53,206</time>
<s>做的那个功夫是很少的</s>
<time>527_00:17:53,566 --> 00:17:54,286</time>
<s>您这个是</s>
<time>528_00:17:54,646 --> 00:17:55,006</time>
<s>对很有趣</s>
<time>529_00:17:55,366 --> 00:17:56,446</time>
<s>因为我原来以为</s>
<time>530_00:17:56,806 --> 00:17:57,886</time>
<s>是只是人的个性不同</s>
<time>531_00:17:58,246 --> 00:18:00,046</time>
<s>就是说我原来以为有的父母</s>
<time>532_00:18:00,406 --> 00:18:02,566</time>
<s>可以真的做到他不要小孩管的</s>
<time>533_00:18:02,926 --> 00:18:03,646</time>
<s>原来我听您这么一说</s>
<time>534_00:18:04,006 --> 00:18:05,446</time>
<s>其实您是忍住没有管</s>
<time>535_00:18:05,806 --> 00:18:06,166</time>
<s>当然了</s>
<time>536_00:18:06,526 --> 00:18:06,886</time>
<s>因为</s>
<time>537_00:18:07,246 --> 00:18:09,406</time>
<s>是吗因为我看到有的时候</s>
<time>538_00:18:09,766 --> 00:18:11,566</time>
<s>比如说在欧洲有的时候的老年人</s>
<time>539_00:18:11,926 --> 00:18:13,006</time>
<s>我看到有的个性很强</s>
<time>540_00:18:13,366 --> 00:18:14,446</time>
<s>比如说像我的婆婆就是</s>
<time>541_00:18:14,806 --> 00:18:16,246</time>
<s>她就一个人住</s>
<time>542_00:18:16,606 --> 00:18:17,326</time>
<s>住一个很大的房子</s>
<time>543_00:18:17,686 --> 00:18:18,046</time>
<s>然后她</s>
<time>544_00:18:18,406 --> 00:18:18,766</time>
<s>我一直认为</s>
<time>545_00:18:19,126 --> 00:18:20,926</time>
<s>是她真的不用我们管</s>
<time>546_00:18:22,366 --> 00:18:22,726</time>
<s>是有</s>
<time>547_00:18:23,086 --> 00:18:23,446</time>
<s>但是也有</s>
<time>548_00:18:23,806 --> 00:18:25,246</time>
<s>老外真是习惯了</s>
<time>549_00:18:25,606 --> 00:18:27,406</time>
<s>我有个朋友嫁给一个法国老公</s>
<time>550_00:18:27,766 --> 00:18:28,486</time>
<s>她就是说</s>
<time>551_00:18:28,846 --> 00:18:31,726</time>
<s>这个她的算是公公婆婆吧</s>
<time>552_00:18:32,086 --> 00:18:33,526</time>
<s>大老远的说过节了来看看</s>
<time>553_00:18:33,886 --> 00:18:35,326</time>
<s>开两个小时的车来看他们</s>
<time>554_00:18:35,686 --> 00:18:37,486</time>
<s>到他们家来打开门</s>
<time>555_00:18:37,846 --> 00:18:39,286</time>
<s>就喝瓶啤酒都要问他儿子</s>
<time>556_00:18:39,646 --> 00:18:40,366</time>
<s>都是这样的</s>
<time>557_00:18:40,726 --> 00:18:41,806</time>
<s>我可以拿一瓶啤酒喝吗</s>
<time>558_00:18:42,166 --> 00:18:42,526</time>
<s>都是这样的</s>
<time>559_00:18:42,886 --> 00:18:43,606</time>
<s>他们是有距离的</s>
<time>560_00:18:43,966 --> 00:18:45,046</time>
<s>但可能他的内心</s>
<time>561_00:18:45,406 --> 00:18:47,206</time>
<s>或许也未必完全是那样子</s>
<time>562_00:18:47,566 --> 00:18:48,286</time>
<s>就我刚刚听您说</s>
<time>563_00:18:48,646 --> 00:18:49,006</time>
<s>而且很有趣</s>
<time>564_00:18:49,366 --> 00:18:50,086</time>
<s>他们确实是有时候</s>
<time>565_00:18:50,446 --> 00:18:51,526</time>
<s>会美慕中国人的热闹</s>
<time>566_00:18:51,886 --> 00:18:53,326</time>
<s>比如说我们讲那个广场舞吧</s>
<time>567_00:18:53,686 --> 00:18:55,846</time>
<s>在他们看来这个业余生活太好了</s>
<time>568_00:18:56,206 --> 00:18:56,566</time>
<s>他们很高兴的对</s>
<time>569_00:18:56,926 --> 00:18:57,286</time>
<s>他们很喜欢这样</s>
<time>570_00:18:57,646 --> 00:18:59,086</time>
<s>没错我带过一些老外朋友</s>
<time>571_00:18:59,446 --> 00:19:01,246</time>
<s>在北京看广场舞</s>
<time>572_00:19:01,606 --> 00:19:02,686</time>
<s>看得他们特兴奋</s>
<time>573_00:19:03,046 --> 00:19:04,846</time>
<s>他们说哎呀天哪我也想加入</s>
<time>574_00:19:05,206 --> 00:19:05,926</time>
<s>然后还问我说</s>
<time>575_00:19:06,286 --> 00:19:07,726</time>
<s>你能让我下车进去吗</s>
<time>576_00:19:08,086 --> 00:19:09,166</time>
<s>我说你一去他们就全躲着</s>
<time>577_00:19:10,606 --> 00:19:11,326</time>
<s>可是我想说回来</s>
<time>578_00:19:11,686 --> 00:19:12,766</time>
<s>其实这个有时候还真的是性格</s>
<time>579_00:19:13,126 --> 00:19:14,566</time>
<s>就像您刚才说您忍着</s>
<time>580_00:19:14,926 --> 00:19:16,006</time>
<s>您对自己有约束</s>
<time>581_00:19:16,366 --> 00:19:16,726</time>
<s>有的呢</s>
<time>582_00:19:17,086 --> 00:19:19,246</time>
<s>就我见过一些父母真的就是</s>
<time>583_00:19:19,606 --> 00:19:21,046</time>
<s>嫌孩子来看自己还烦</s>
<time>584_00:19:22,486 --> 00:19:23,926</time>
<s>他觉得我们生活挺好</s>
<time>585_00:19:24,286 --> 00:19:25,366</time>
<s>然后这个有时候孩子说</s>
<time>586_00:19:25,726 --> 00:19:27,166</time>
<s>要回来住一个月</s>
<time>587_00:19:27,526 --> 00:19:28,606</time>
<s>然后就觉得天哪</s>
<time>588_00:19:28,966 --> 00:19:29,686</time>
<s>这个儿媳妇</s>
<time>589_00:19:30,046 --> 00:19:32,206</time>
<s>或者是这个儿子的老婆</s>
<time>590_00:19:32,566 --> 00:19:34,006</time>
<s>或者女儿的老公要过来</s>
<time>591_00:19:34,366 --> 00:19:35,446</time>
<s>你就觉得很麻烦</s>
<time>592_00:19:35,806 --> 00:19:36,886</time>
<s>家里多了个人怎么样</s>
<time>593_00:19:37,246 --> 00:19:39,046</time>
<s>但是也有一些是反过来的</s>
<time>594_00:19:39,406 --> 00:19:43,366</time>
<s>就是他就恨不得什么都得要管着</s>
<time>595_00:19:43,726 --> 00:19:44,446</time>
<s>而且就是最好</s>
<time>596_00:19:44,806 --> 00:19:45,886</time>
<s>就是你赚了多少钱</s>
<time>597_00:19:46,246 --> 00:19:46,966</time>
<s>也都要全要上缴</s>
<time>598_00:19:48,406 --> 00:19:49,486</time>
<s>很多是各种性格不一样</s>
<time>599_00:19:49,846 --> 00:19:50,566</time>
<s>但是我想说的是</s>
<time>600_00:19:50,926 --> 00:19:52,726</time>
<s>除了这些性格造成的差异之外</s>
<time>601_00:19:53,086 --> 00:19:54,886</time>
<s>有一些的制度上的</s>
<time>602_00:19:55,246 --> 00:19:55,966</time>
<s>人类历史上的一些安排</s>
<time>603_00:19:56,326 --> 00:19:57,406</time>
<s>我觉得很特别</s>
<time>604_00:19:57,766 --> 00:19:59,926</time>
<s>你比如说为什么要养老</s>
<time>605_00:20:00,286 --> 00:20:03,526</time>
<s>就下一代为什么尊敬老人要养老</s>
<time>606_00:20:03,886 --> 00:20:05,326</time>
<s>老人比如说中国自古以来</s>
<time>607_00:20:05,686 --> 00:20:06,406</time>
<s>就很敬老对不对</s>
<time>608_00:20:06,766 --> 00:20:08,926</time>
<s>以前是老人才能吃肉甚至</s>
<time>609_00:20:09,286 --> 00:20:10,366</time>
<s>那为什么要这么做呢</s>
<time>610_00:20:10,726 --> 00:20:11,086</time>
<s>很多时候是因为</s>
<time>611_00:20:11,446 --> 00:20:15,766</time>
<s>过去的社会的知识的积累</s>
<time>612_00:20:16,126 --> 00:20:17,566</time>
<s>纯粹是跟年纪相关</s>
<time>613_00:20:17,926 --> 00:20:19,366</time>
<s>经验就是智慧是不是</s>
<time>614_00:20:19,726 --> 00:20:21,886</time>
<s>知识是靠时间积累而来</s>
<time>615_00:20:22,246 --> 00:20:23,686</time>
<s>所以活得越老越聪明</s>
<time>616_00:20:24,046 --> 00:20:25,846</time>
<s>活得越老起码掌握的知识越多</s>
<time>617_00:20:26,206 --> 00:20:26,926</time>
<s>智库</s>
<time>618_00:20:27,286 --> 00:20:27,646</time>
<s>他是个智库</s>
<time>619_00:20:28,006 --> 00:20:28,726</time>
<s>就长老长老</s>
<time>620_00:20:29,086 --> 00:20:30,526</time>
<s>为什么长老叫长老</s>
<time>621_00:20:30,886 --> 00:20:34,126</time>
<s>你要透过长老来解决我们社会</s>
<time>622_00:20:34,486 --> 00:20:35,926</time>
<s>或者我们家庭发生很多问题</s>
<time>623_00:20:36,286 --> 00:20:37,726</time>
<s>但问题是今天</s>
<time>624_00:20:38,086 --> 00:20:40,246</time>
<s>这个功能已经彻底被剥掉了</s>
<time>625_00:20:40,606 --> 00:20:41,686</time>
<s>老人不是最有智慧</s>
<time>626_00:20:42,046 --> 00:20:43,126</time>
<s>老人通常是最笨</s>
<time>627_00:20:43,486 --> 00:20:44,206</time>
<s>然后老人不一定</s>
<time>628_00:20:44,566 --> 00:20:44,926</time>
<s>不会用各种电子设备</s>
<time>629_00:20:45,286 --> 00:20:47,086</time>
<s>然后他的经验是没有意义的</s>
<time>630_00:20:47,446 --> 00:20:48,886</time>
<s>那么在这个情况下</s>
<time>631_00:20:49,246 --> 00:20:52,126</time>
<s>就老人本身的客观价值在下降</s>
<time>632_00:20:53,566 --> 00:20:54,646</time>
<s>那这个时候就会出现一个问题了</s>
<time>633_00:20:55,006 --> 00:20:57,166</time>
<s>就是会不会出现一个弃老</s>
<time>634_00:20:57,526 --> 00:20:57,886</time>
<s>会不会又重新出现</s>
<time>635_00:20:58,246 --> 00:20:59,326</time>
<s>我们残酷地讲</s>
<time>636_00:20:59,686 --> 00:21:00,766</time>
<s>因为人类历史上</s>
<time>637_00:21:01,126 --> 00:21:02,566</time>
<s>也出现过一些社会</s>
<time>638_00:21:02,926 --> 00:21:03,286</time>
<s>就是对他来讲</s>
<time>639_00:21:03,646 --> 00:21:05,806</time>
<s>老人的经验价值并不是太重要</s>
<time>640_00:21:06,166 --> 00:21:07,966</time>
<s>因为这个社会环境太恶劣</s>
<time>641_00:21:08,326 --> 00:21:09,046</time>
<s>条件太冷酷</s>
<time>642_00:21:09,406 --> 00:21:10,486</time>
<s>就像《橘山节考》那样</s>
<time>643_00:21:10,846 --> 00:21:13,006</time>
<s>所以他们社会发展一个习惯</s>
<time>644_00:21:13,366 --> 00:21:15,166</time>
<s>这是一个真实存在过的做法</s>
<time>645_00:21:15,526 --> 00:21:16,966</time>
<s>就把老人背上山</s>
<time>646_00:21:17,326 --> 00:21:18,766</time>
<s>等死</s>
<time>647_00:21:19,126 --> 00:21:19,486</time>
<s>这个我插一句</s>
<time>648_00:21:19,846 --> 00:21:21,286</time>
<s>我有一天晚上在街上</s>
<time>649_00:21:21,646 --> 00:21:22,366</time>
<s>我听到两个人在我后面</s>
<time>650_00:21:22,726 --> 00:21:23,446</time>
<s>就是在交谈</s>
<time>651_00:21:23,806 --> 00:21:25,606</time>
<s>两个大概中老年妇女吧</s>
<time>652_00:21:25,966 --> 00:21:26,686</time>
<s>她们就讲了这个事情</s>
<time>653_00:21:27,046 --> 00:21:28,486</time>
<s>她们不知道是从哪看到这个</s>
<time>654_00:21:28,846 --> 00:21:30,286</time>
<s>她说你们听过这样一个故事吗</s>
<time>655_00:21:30,646 --> 00:21:31,006</time>
<s>说人老了以后</s>
<time>656_00:21:31,366 --> 00:21:32,086</time>
<s>他们把人背上山</s>
<time>657_00:21:32,446 --> 00:21:33,166</time>
<s>就让他们等死</s>
<time>658_00:21:33,526 --> 00:21:34,606</time>
<s>然后她们给加了一句</s>
<time>659_00:21:34,966 --> 00:21:36,766</time>
<s>说但是你知道吗那个</s>
<time>660_00:21:37,126 --> 00:21:38,566</time>
<s>就是因为是那个儿子跟爸爸</s>
<time>661_00:21:38,926 --> 00:21:39,286</time>
<s>把爷爷背上去</s>
<time>662_00:21:39,646 --> 00:21:41,446</time>
<s>她说下山的时候</s>
<time>663_00:21:41,806 --> 00:21:42,886</time>
<s>那个儿子就跟爸爸说</s>
<time>664_00:21:43,246 --> 00:21:44,326</time>
<s>以后我也这样背你</s>
<time>665_00:21:44,686 --> 00:21:45,406</time>
<s>她的意思就是说</s>
<time>666_00:21:45,766 --> 00:21:46,486</time>
<s>你不要以为那个社会是这样</s>
<time>667_00:21:46,846 --> 00:21:47,926</time>
<s>以后你会有报应</s>
<time>668_00:21:48,286 --> 00:21:50,086</time>
<s>就是它的那个传统不会</s>
<time>669_00:21:50,446 --> 00:21:51,886</time>
<s>我们的观念还是不能够接受</s>
<time>670_00:21:52,246 --> 00:21:53,686</time>
<s>你说的最经济的这个安排</s>
<time>671_00:21:54,046 --> 00:21:56,206</time>
<s>是就是说因为人毕竟是</s>
<time>672_00:21:56,566 --> 00:21:58,366</time>
<s>历史当中现实当中的人</s>
<time>673_00:21:58,726 --> 00:22:00,166</time>
<s>这个理上讲明白了</s>
<time>674_00:22:00,526 --> 00:22:01,966</time>
<s>但是我就觉得感情上</s>
<time>675_00:22:03,046 --> 00:22:03,406</time>
<s>他通常</s>
<time>676_00:22:04,126 --> 00:22:05,926</time>
<s>这些实际上刚才</s>
<time>677_00:22:06,286 --> 00:22:09,526</time>
<s>文道讲的这个是也让我</s>
<time>678_00:22:09,886 --> 00:22:10,966</time>
<s>带出了我另外一个</s>
<time>679_00:22:11,326 --> 00:22:12,406</time>
<s>想讲的一个意思</s>
<time>680_00:22:12,766 --> 00:22:14,926</time>
<s>实际上人类不管哪个社会</s>
<time>681_00:22:15,286 --> 00:22:17,086</time>
<s>哪个人种</s>
<time>682_00:22:17,446 --> 00:22:22,126</time>
<s>他有的那些风俗和那个习惯</s>
<time>683_00:22:22,486 --> 00:22:27,166</time>
<s>都是被生活环境逼出来的造成的</s>
<time>684_00:22:27,526 --> 00:22:28,246</time>
<s>因为他们发现</s>
<time>685_00:22:28,606 --> 00:22:31,126</time>
<s>这是对他这个群体来说</s>
<time>686_00:22:31,486 --> 00:22:32,206</time>
<s>对他资源那么有限的话</s>
<time>687_00:22:32,566 --> 00:22:35,086</time>
<s>对最好的一个安排</s>
<time>688_00:22:35,446 --> 00:22:38,686</time>
<s>如果换成像现在产能过剩</s>
<time>689_00:22:39,046 --> 00:22:40,486</time>
<s>然后金融市场又很发达了</s>
<time>690_00:22:40,846 --> 00:22:41,206</time>
<s>那么整个的那个格局</s>
<time>691_00:22:41,566 --> 00:22:42,286</time>
<s>不会有这种事的</s>
<time>692_00:22:42,646 --> 00:22:43,006</time>
<s>那么整个的那个格局</s>
<time>693_00:22:43,366 --> 00:22:45,886</time>
<s>和这些文化的那个规范</s>
<time>694_00:22:46,246 --> 00:22:47,686</time>
<s>也会发生很大的变化</s>
<time>695_00:22:48,046 --> 00:22:50,566</time>
<s>人类历史一直是这样子走过来的</s>
<time>696_00:22:50,926 --> 00:22:52,726</time>
<s>所以这就为什么我也经常说</s>
<time>697_00:22:53,086 --> 00:22:53,806</time>
<s>我们中国人总说</s>
<time>698_00:22:54,166 --> 00:22:55,966</time>
<s>中国文化就必须得是这样子</s>
<time>699_00:22:56,326 --> 00:22:56,686</time>
<s>只能是这样子</s>
<time>700_00:22:57,046 --> 00:22:58,126</time>
<s>比如说孝敬</s>
<time>701_00:22:58,486 --> 00:23:01,006</time>
<s>还有养子防老等等这些</s>
<time>702_00:23:01,366 --> 00:23:02,806</time>
<s>实际上我一直就跟他们说</s>
<time>703_00:23:03,166 --> 00:23:03,886</time>
<s>没这回事</s>
<time>704_00:23:04,246 --> 00:23:05,686</time>
<s>就是历来就不是这样</s>
<time>705_00:23:06,046 --> 00:23:06,766</time>
<s>一直在变的</s>
<time>706_00:23:07,126 --> 00:23:10,006</time>
<s>根据那个新的生活环境</s>
<time>707_00:23:10,366 --> 00:23:11,806</time>
<s>新的那个机会</s>
<time>708_00:23:12,166 --> 00:23:12,886</time>
<s>都会每一个人</s>
<time>709_00:23:13,246 --> 00:23:15,046</time>
<s>都会发生很大的这个变化的</s>
<time>710_00:23:15,406 --> 00:23:16,846</time>
<s>而且它这个还会跟</s>
<time>711_00:23:17,206 --> 00:23:19,366</time>
<s>而且我们可以放心的就是</s>
<time>712_00:23:19,726 --> 00:23:20,086</time>
<s>你刚才说到</s>
<time>713_00:23:20,446 --> 00:23:21,526</time>
<s>是不是忍得下心</s>
<time>714_00:23:21,886 --> 00:23:22,606</time>
<s>人有人之常情</s>
<time>715_00:23:22,966 --> 00:23:24,046</time>
<s>比如说背自己的爷爷</s>
<time>716_00:23:24,406 --> 00:23:25,846</time>
<s>背自己的爸爸上山</s>
<time>717_00:23:26,206 --> 00:23:28,006</time>
<s>在雪山里头等着冬天来了</s>
<time>718_00:23:28,366 --> 00:23:29,806</time>
<s>大雪封山他就死在里头</s>
<time>719_00:23:30,166 --> 00:23:31,246</time>
<s>其实忍得下心的</s>
<time>720_00:23:31,606 --> 00:23:32,326</time>
<s>这不是残酷</s>
<time>721_00:23:32,686 --> 00:23:33,046</time>
<s>而是什么呢</s>
<time>722_00:23:33,406 --> 00:23:34,486</time>
<s>如果这个社会</s>
<time>723_00:23:34,846 --> 00:23:35,566</time>
<s>真的有这个需要的话</s>
<time>724_00:23:35,926 --> 00:23:38,086</time>
<s>这个社会会有相应的信仰产生</s>
<time>725_00:23:38,806 --> 00:23:41,326</time>
<s>比如说相信山上有山神</s>
<time>726_00:23:41,686 --> 00:23:44,206</time>
<s>这个山神是专来接老人走的</s>
<time>727_00:23:44,566 --> 00:23:46,366</time>
<s>然后谁家要是不背这个上去呢</s>
<time>728_00:23:46,726 --> 00:23:49,246</time>
<s>这个老人在平地呢也会遭报应的</s>
<time>729_00:23:49,606 --> 00:23:52,486</time>
<s>它会发展出一些这种信仰</s>
<time>730_00:23:52,846 --> 00:23:55,006</time>
<s>来合法化整件事</s>
<time>731_00:23:55,366 --> 00:23:56,806</time>
<s>就所有人都做的心安理得</s>
<time>732_00:23:57,166 --> 00:23:58,966</time>
<s>就是所谓的这个向死而生</s>
<time>733_00:23:59,326 --> 00:24:00,766</time>
<s>但是呢你说话</s>
<time>734_00:24:01,126 --> 00:24:02,206</time>
<s>你到了这个现代社会</s>
<time>735_00:24:02,566 --> 00:24:03,646</time>
<s>我觉得这个就很难</s>
<time>736_00:24:04,006 --> 00:24:05,086</time>
<s>因为现代社会呢</s>
<time>737_00:24:05,446 --> 00:24:08,326</time>
<s>其实这个人活得是越来越娇贵了</s>
<time>738_00:24:08,686 --> 00:24:10,486</time>
<s>你比如说在战乱年代</s>
<time>739_00:24:10,846 --> 00:24:12,646</time>
<s>那生死就没有什么说的</s>
<time>740_00:24:13,006 --> 00:24:14,446</time>
<s>还有什么养老的这个问题</s>
<time>741_00:24:14,806 --> 00:24:15,886</time>
<s>但是其实那天</s>
<time>742_00:24:16,246 --> 00:24:16,966</time>
<s>就像陈老师说的一样</s>
<time>743_00:24:17,326 --> 00:24:18,766</time>
<s>今天的很多问题</s>
<time>744_00:24:19,126 --> 00:24:20,206</time>
<s>你从另一方面看</s>
<time>745_00:24:20,566 --> 00:24:23,086</time>
<s>恰恰是社会在变好</s>
<time>746_00:24:23,446 --> 00:24:24,526</time>
<s>在变好了呢</s>
<time>747_00:24:24,886 --> 00:24:25,966</time>
<s>人的这种需求</s>
<time>748_00:24:26,326 --> 00:24:28,486</time>
<s>养老送终善始善终</s>
<time>749_00:24:28,846 --> 00:24:30,286</time>
<s>全了孝道等等</s>
<time>750_00:24:30,646 --> 00:24:32,806</time>
<s>而且包括父母亲之间的感情</s>
<time>751_00:24:33,166 --> 00:24:34,966</time>
<s>你这种就是怎么说呢</s>
<time>752_00:24:35,326 --> 00:24:36,406</time>
<s>你比如说我就觉得</s>
<time>753_00:24:36,766 --> 00:24:39,646</time>
<s>今天的中国的这个父母亲其实</s>
<time>754_00:24:40,006 --> 00:24:41,806</time>
<s>你比如说北大的钱理群教授</s>
<time>755_00:24:42,166 --> 00:24:45,406</time>
<s>我发现还是像您这样一些有文化</s>
<time>756_00:24:45,766 --> 00:24:47,206</time>
<s>有自己的读书生活</s>
<time>757_00:24:47,566 --> 00:24:49,006</time>
<s>就其实他有自己的精神生活</s>
<time>758_00:24:49,366 --> 00:24:50,806</time>
<s>他可以说我住养老院去</s>
<time>759_00:24:51,166 --> 00:24:52,246</time>
<s>我不需要孩子对吧</s>
<time>760_00:24:52,606 --> 00:24:52,966</time>
<s>孩子爱来就来</s>
<time>761_00:24:53,326 --> 00:24:54,406</time>
<s>不爱来没关系</s>
<time>762_00:24:54,766 --> 00:24:56,206</time>
<s>因为他能过自己的生活</s>
<time>763_00:24:56,566 --> 00:24:56,926</time>
<s>可是你知道</s>
<time>764_00:24:57,286 --> 00:24:59,086</time>
<s>我们身边的很多父母亲</s>
<time>765_00:24:59,446 --> 00:25:00,886</time>
<s>他们已经是什么样了</s>
<time>766_00:25:01,246 --> 00:25:03,766</time>
<s>就到了晚年他们老两口聊天</s>
<time>767_00:25:04,126 --> 00:25:05,926</time>
<s>唯一的话题就是你</s>
<time>768_00:25:06,286 --> 00:25:06,646</time>
<s>对</s>
<time>769_00:25:07,006 --> 00:25:07,366</time>
<s>没有别的</s>
<time>770_00:25:07,726 --> 00:25:08,446</time>
<s>他没有别的独立的生活</s>
<time>771_00:25:08,806 --> 00:25:09,886</time>
<s>他的世界没有别的了</s>
<time>772_00:25:10,246 --> 00:25:14,206</time>
<s>那么如果他病卧在床相依为命</s>
<time>773_00:25:14,566 --> 00:25:16,366</time>
<s>老长时间见不着孩子</s>
<time>774_00:25:16,726 --> 00:25:17,086</time>
<s>你连个电话</s>
<time>775_00:25:17,446 --> 00:25:18,526</time>
<s>说是今天我自己都不对</s>
<time>776_00:25:18,886 --> 00:25:19,606</time>
<s>电话都很少打</s>
<time>777_00:25:19,966 --> 00:25:22,126</time>
<s>那你说这东西就是</s>
<time>778_00:25:22,486 --> 00:25:24,286</time>
<s>他生理上是可以得到照顾了</s>
<time>779_00:25:24,646 --> 00:25:25,366</time>
<s>他心理上呢</s>
<time>780_00:25:25,726 --> 00:25:26,446</time>
<s>是</s>
<time>781_00:25:26,806 --> 00:25:28,246</time>
<s>所以这些年我还在</s>
<time>782_00:25:28,606 --> 00:25:30,406</time>
<s>因为一直在美国生活了那么多年</s>
<time>783_00:25:31,846 --> 00:25:34,006</time>
<s>我原来住的那个地方呢</s>
<time>784_00:25:34,366 --> 00:25:35,446</time>
<s>那个小镇上</s>
<time>785_00:25:35,806 --> 00:25:38,686</time>
<s>我每天去耶鲁（大学）办公室</s>
<time>786_00:25:39,046 --> 00:25:40,126</time>
<s>开车路过的地方</s>
<time>787_00:25:40,486 --> 00:25:41,926</time>
<s>就有一个养老院</s>
<time>788_00:25:42,286 --> 00:25:44,806</time>
<s>我后来走多了以后我就在琢磨</s>
<time>789_00:25:45,166 --> 00:25:46,966</time>
<s>就是说金融市场以外</s>
<time>790_00:25:47,326 --> 00:25:50,566</time>
<s>整个社会和经济这个行业里面</s>
<time>791_00:25:50,926 --> 00:25:52,366</time>
<s>要有很多配套的</s>
<time>792_00:25:52,726 --> 00:25:53,806</time>
<s>对</s>
<time>793_00:25:54,166 --> 00:25:55,966</time>
<s>一个一个环节都要到位的</s>
<time>794_00:25:56,326 --> 00:25:57,046</time>
<s>否则的话我们讲的</s>
<time>795_00:25:57,406 --> 00:26:01,006</time>
<s>要慢慢得那个脱离开养子防老</s>
<time>796_00:26:01,366 --> 00:26:02,086</time>
<s>很难做到的</s>
<time>797_00:26:02,446 --> 00:26:04,246</time>
<s>所以那些养老院</s>
<time>798_00:26:04,606 --> 00:26:06,046</time>
<s>那边都是八九十岁</s>
<time>799_00:26:06,406 --> 00:26:08,926</time>
<s>或者是一百多岁的一些人住在那儿</s>
<time>800_00:26:09,286 --> 00:26:11,086</time>
<s>有的时候也从那边</s>
<time>801_00:26:11,446 --> 00:26:12,166</time>
<s>进去看看这样子</s>
<time>802_00:26:12,526 --> 00:26:13,246</time>
<s>也蛮可的</s>
<time>803_00:26:13,606 --> 00:26:14,326</time>
<s>所以我一想的话</s>
<time>804_00:26:14,686 --> 00:26:16,126</time>
<s>这个要是中国的父母的话</s>
<time>805_00:26:16,486 --> 00:26:17,926</time>
<s>肯定没办法接受</s>
<time>806_00:26:18,286 --> 00:26:20,086</time>
<s>现在还是很多人不能够接受这个</s>
<time>807_00:26:20,446 --> 00:26:21,526</time>
<s>大部分我看都不行</s>
<time>808_00:26:21,886 --> 00:26:23,326</time>
<s>但是这些</s>
<time>809_00:26:23,686 --> 00:26:24,406</time>
<s>你跟这些老年人</s>
<time>810_00:26:24,766 --> 00:26:26,206</time>
<s>你说美国人</s>
<time>811_00:26:26,566 --> 00:26:30,526</time>
<s>他不想看到自己的子女</s>
<time>812_00:26:30,886 --> 00:26:32,326</time>
<s>那个孙子孙女</s>
<time>813_00:26:32,686 --> 00:26:33,766</time>
<s>还有其他的亲人吗</s>
<time>814_00:26:34,126 --> 00:26:38,806</time>
<s>肯定大多数的还是非常想念的</s>
<time>815_00:26:39,166 --> 00:26:40,246</time>
<s>只不过就是说</s>
<time>816_00:26:40,606 --> 00:26:44,206</time>
<s>一般的美国人都明白我是我</s>
<time>817_00:26:44,566 --> 00:26:46,726</time>
<s>儿子女儿他是他们</s>
<time>818_00:26:47,086 --> 00:26:47,806</time>
<s>他们有他们的自由</s>
<time>819_00:26:48,166 --> 00:26:48,886</time>
<s>有他们的权利</s>
<time>820_00:26:49,246 --> 00:26:49,966</time>
<s>有他们的生活</s>
<time>821_00:26:50,326 --> 00:26:52,486</time>
<s>我不能够把我的非得要</s>
<time>822_00:26:52,846 --> 00:26:55,726</time>
<s>方方面面的这个偏好要求</s>
<time>823_00:26:56,086 --> 00:26:57,526</time>
<s>都强加给他们</s>
<time>824_00:26:57,886 --> 00:27:00,766</time>
<s>所以这个是一个整个社会包括文化</s>
<time>825_00:27:01,126 --> 00:27:02,206</time>
<s>我们刚才讲到的</s>
<time>826_00:27:02,566 --> 00:27:04,726</time>
<s>也都要经过一些转变</s>
<time>827_00:27:05,086 --> 00:27:06,166</time>
<s>和不断地调整</s>
<time>828_00:27:06,526 --> 00:27:07,246</time>
<s>人得改变</s>
<time>829_00:27:07,606 --> 00:27:09,766</time>
<s>就是说从古代到现代</s>
<time>830_00:27:10,126 --> 00:27:13,726</time>
<s>是不是人就会变得越来越无情</s>
<time>831_00:27:14,086 --> 00:27:15,526</time>
<s>就你不能太有情</s>
<time>832_00:27:15,886 --> 00:27:18,766</time>
<s>一方面你可以表面上看是无情</s>
<time>833_00:27:19,126 --> 00:27:22,366</time>
<s>但是实际上我觉得对个人</s>
<time>834_00:27:22,726 --> 00:27:25,606</time>
<s>每个人作为一个个人的尊重</s>
<time>835_00:27:25,966 --> 00:27:26,326</time>
<s>这也是代表了</s>
<time>836_00:27:26,686 --> 00:27:28,486</time>
<s>这个社会也是进步了</s>
<time>837_00:27:28,846 --> 00:27:30,646</time>
<s>对这个就跟这个好像</s>
<time>838_00:27:31,006 --> 00:27:33,886</time>
<s>跟亲缘跟家族关系就不一样了</s>
<time>839_00:27:34,246 --> 00:27:35,326</time>
<s>他是每一个公民的</s>
<time>840_00:27:35,686 --> 00:27:36,766</time>
<s>个人的这种尊重</s>
<time>841_00:27:37,126 --> 00:27:38,206</time>
<s>但是您比如说</s>
<time>842_00:27:38,566 --> 00:27:40,006</time>
<s>好比说你说夫妻关系</s>
<time>843_00:27:40,366 --> 00:27:41,806</time>
<s>就像刚才文道讲的</s>
<time>844_00:27:42,166 --> 00:27:46,126</time>
<s>最早当年它也是一种家族交易</s>
<time>845_00:27:46,486 --> 00:27:47,926</time>
<s>财产的起源</s>
<time>846_00:27:48,286 --> 00:27:49,726</time>
<s>但是到了今天呢</s>
<time>847_00:27:50,086 --> 00:27:51,526</time>
<s>是不是那个理由消失了呢</s>
<time>848_00:27:52,966 --> 00:27:54,766</time>
<s>还没有完全消失</s>
<time>849_00:27:55,126 --> 00:27:55,846</time>
<s>实际上人的</s>
<time>850_00:27:56,206 --> 00:27:57,646</time>
<s>就像是刚才文道说到</s>
<time>851_00:27:58,006 --> 00:27:59,446</time>
<s>那个人类最早</s>
<time>852_00:27:59,806 --> 00:28:01,606</time>
<s>实际上比如说以婚姻</s>
<time>853_00:28:01,966 --> 00:28:05,206</time>
<s>来作为一个视角看的话</s>
<time>854_00:28:05,566 --> 00:28:08,446</time>
<s>人类在原始社会时期</s>
<time>855_00:28:08,806 --> 00:28:09,526</time>
<s>不要说亚洲</s>
<time>856_00:28:09,886 --> 00:28:11,686</time>
<s>即使欧洲非洲</s>
<time>857_00:28:12,046 --> 00:28:12,766</time>
<s>也差不多一样的</s>
<time>858_00:28:13,126 --> 00:28:16,366</time>
<s>都是更多的像一妻多夫的</s>
