<time>439_00:16:24,282 --> 00:16:25,362</time>
<s>你觉得你的生活会是</s>
<time>440_00:16:25,722 --> 00:16:27,162</time>
<s>这又是一个很奇葩（的事情）</s>
<time>441_00:16:27,522 --> 00:16:27,882</time>
<s>又是奇葩了</s>
<time>442_00:16:28,242 --> 00:16:28,602</time>
<s>这个事情</s>
<time>443_00:16:30,042 --> 00:16:31,482</time>
<s>我自己有时候奇葩得很怪</s>
<time>444_00:16:32,562 --> 00:16:33,642</time>
<s>你看我棋牌一律不会</s>
<time>445_00:16:34,002 --> 00:16:34,722</time>
<s>不会打麻将</s>
<time>446_00:16:35,082 --> 00:16:35,442</time>
<s>什么都不会</s>
<time>447_00:16:35,802 --> 00:16:36,522</time>
<s>作一个成都人不会打麻将</s>
<time>448_00:16:36,882 --> 00:16:37,962</time>
<s>这是一个耻辱嘛</s>
<time>449_00:16:38,322 --> 00:16:38,682</time>
<s>这方面智商为零</s>
<time>450_00:16:39,402 --> 00:16:39,762</time>
<s>智商为零</s>
<time>451_00:16:40,482 --> 00:16:41,562</time>
<s>就这些我都是放弃的事情</s>
<time>452_00:16:41,922 --> 00:16:42,642</time>
<s>我连扑克都不会</s>
<time>453_00:16:43,002 --> 00:16:43,722</time>
<s>但是后来我看</s>
<time>454_00:16:44,082 --> 00:16:45,882</time>
<s>是七八年以前吧</s>
<time>455_00:16:46,962 --> 00:16:48,042</time>
<s>我有一个音乐界的一个朋友</s>
<time>456_00:16:48,402 --> 00:16:50,202</time>
<s>推荐给我一款作曲软件</s>
<time>457_00:16:50,922 --> 00:16:52,002</time>
<s>把音符一个个放上去</s>
<time>458_00:16:52,362 --> 00:16:53,802</time>
<s>自带这个音频编辑软件</s>
<time>459_00:16:54,162 --> 00:16:54,882</time>
<s>它马上给你放出来了</s>
<time>460_00:16:55,602 --> 00:16:56,322</time>
<s>哇我觉得好神奇</s>
<time>461_00:16:57,762 --> 00:16:58,842</time>
<s>有一阵玩得投入的时候</s>
<time>462_00:16:59,202 --> 00:16:59,922</time>
<s>到什么地步</s>
<time>463_00:17:01,002 --> 00:17:01,362</time>
<s>我得承认</s>
<time>464_00:17:01,722 --> 00:17:02,802</time>
<s>有段时间连画画都有点荒废</s>
<time>465_00:17:03,162 --> 00:17:03,882</time>
<s>每天就玩这个</s>
<time>466_00:17:04,242 --> 00:17:05,322</time>
<s>我写的曲子</s>
<time>467_00:17:06,762 --> 00:17:07,122</time>
<s>上百首吧</s>
<time>468_00:17:07,482 --> 00:17:08,562</time>
<s>有些还非常长</s>
<time>469_00:17:09,642 --> 00:17:10,722</time>
<s>要花我几个月的时间</s>
<time>470_00:17:11,442 --> 00:17:12,522</time>
<s>比我画幅画的时间还长</s>
<time>471_00:17:12,882 --> 00:17:13,962</time>
<s>也就是晚上回去搞一会儿</s>
<time>472_00:17:15,762 --> 00:17:16,121</time>
<s>这就很有耐心</s>
<time>473_00:17:16,482 --> 00:17:17,202</time>
<s>那你自已觉得水平怎么样</s>
<time>474_00:17:17,922 --> 00:17:18,282</time>
<s>水平</s>
<time>475_00:17:18,641 --> 00:17:20,082</time>
<s>当然是美术界里最高的吧</s>
<time>476_00:17:23,322 --> 00:17:26,562</time>
<s>《忆青春》何多苓作曲</s>
<time>477_00:18:01,122 --> 00:18:02,562</time>
<s>对您说说这空间吧</s>
<time>478_00:18:02,922 --> 00:18:04,361</time>
<s>当时怎么构思这个空间的呀</s>
<time>479_00:18:05,442 --> 00:18:07,242</time>
<s>我这能够用的有</s>
<time>480_00:18:07,602 --> 00:18:08,322</time>
<s>四层空间的高度</s>
<time>481_00:18:09,401 --> 00:18:10,842</time>
<s>我想让它互相交错</s>
<time>482_00:18:11,202 --> 00:18:12,642</time>
<s>就每一层都是有一个流通</s>
<time>483_00:18:13,361 --> 00:18:16,242</time>
<s>就第二层跟第一层有沟通</s>
<time>484_00:18:16,962 --> 00:18:18,402</time>
<s>就是我想每个空间是流动的</s>
<time>485_00:18:18,762 --> 00:18:19,121</time>
<s>不是封闭的</s>
<time>486_00:18:20,922 --> 00:18:22,002</time>
<s>做一个做空间的感觉</s>
<time>487_00:18:22,362 --> 00:18:22,722</time>
<s>是不是挺（有意思）</s>
<time>488_00:18:23,442 --> 00:18:23,802</time>
<s>非常有意思</s>
<time>489_00:18:24,162 --> 00:18:24,882</time>
<s>我太喜欢这个了</s>
<time>490_00:18:25,242 --> 00:18:25,601</time>
<s>我觉得</s>
<time>491_00:18:26,322 --> 00:18:27,762</time>
<s>建筑这个空间太迷人了</s>
<time>492_00:18:28,122 --> 00:18:28,842</time>
<s>因为你还可以走进来</s>
<time>493_00:18:29,922 --> 00:18:31,002</time>
<s>这个地方是可以看到</s>
<time>494_00:18:32,082 --> 00:18:33,522</time>
<s>可以看到成都很远的地方</s>
<time>495_00:18:33,882 --> 00:18:34,242</time>
<s>这儿好舒服</s>
<time>496_00:18:35,321 --> 00:18:35,682</time>
<s>要天气好的话</s>
<time>497_00:18:36,042 --> 00:18:37,842</time>
<s>像那天有很多云彩的时候</s>
<time>498_00:18:38,922 --> 00:18:39,281</time>
<s>特别好看</s>
<time>499_00:18:42,162 --> 00:18:42,522</time>
<s>我就经常在想</s>
<time>500_00:18:44,322 --> 00:18:45,402</time>
<s>～怎么有这种审美的需要</s>
<time>501_00:18:47,562 --> 00:18:50,442</time>
<s>八十年代就追求那种苍凉</s>
<time>502_00:18:50,802 --> 00:18:51,162</time>
<s>荒凉</s>
<time>503_00:18:52,242 --> 00:18:52,962</time>
<s>深沉</s>
<time>504_00:18:53,321 --> 00:18:54,042</time>
<s>深刻</s>
<time>505_00:18:54,762 --> 00:18:56,202</time>
<s>就是那种英雄主义</s>
<time>506_00:18:56,562 --> 00:18:57,282</time>
<s>那些东西英雄主义</s>
<time>507_00:18:58,002 --> 00:18:58,722</time>
<s>然后到后来</s>
<time>508_00:18:59,082 --> 00:19:00,882</time>
<s>就慢慢就把这些这些都去掉了</s>
<time>509_00:19:01,242 --> 00:19:01,962</time>
<s>觉得什么都不“主义”了</s>
<time>510_00:19:02,322 --> 00:19:03,042</time>
<s>什么都好</s>
<time>511_00:19:03,401 --> 00:19:04,482</time>
<s>你看就是那几棵树</s>
<time>512_00:19:04,842 --> 00:19:05,562</time>
<s>都挺有意思</s>
<time>513_00:19:05,922 --> 00:19:06,642</time>
<s>挺说明问题</s>
<time>514_00:19:09,882 --> 00:19:11,321</time>
<s>这些东西它非常的</s>
<time>515_00:19:12,042 --> 00:19:13,121</time>
<s>非常的普适</s>
<time>516_00:19:13,482 --> 00:19:14,202</time>
<s>就是到处都有</s>
<time>517_00:19:14,922 --> 00:19:15,642</time>
<s>它为什么是这个样子</s>
<time>518_00:19:16,722 --> 00:19:18,522</time>
<s>这些东西它都先于人而形成</s>
<time>519_00:19:19,242 --> 00:19:19,962</time>
<s>很长很长时间</s>
<time>520_00:19:20,322 --> 00:19:22,482</time>
<s>没有人去注意它</s>
<time>521_00:19:23,202 --> 00:19:24,282</time>
<s>没有人去审美</s>
<time>522_00:19:24,642 --> 00:19:25,722</time>
<s>宇宙为什么让它呈现</s>
<time>523_00:19:26,081 --> 00:19:26,802</time>
<s>这么复杂的状态</s>
<time>524_00:19:27,522 --> 00:19:28,242</time>
<s>你看这些植物</s>
<time>525_00:19:29,322 --> 00:19:30,762</time>
<s>长成这个样子不容易</s>
<time>526_00:19:31,482 --> 00:19:32,202</time>
<s>就小到一朵花</s>
<time>527_00:19:32,562 --> 00:19:34,362</time>
<s>这花是为吸引蜜蜂来采蜜</s>
<time>528_00:19:34,722 --> 00:19:35,442</time>
<s>它有香味就行了</s>
<time>529_00:19:35,802 --> 00:19:36,522</time>
<s>干嘛长那么好看</s>
<time>530_00:19:37,602 --> 00:19:39,042</time>
<s>而且这个好看是人承认的</s>
<time>531_00:19:39,762 --> 00:19:40,842</time>
<s>你说蜜蜂有审美意识</s>
<time>532_00:19:41,202 --> 00:19:41,922</time>
<s>我还不同意</s>
<time>533_00:19:42,282 --> 00:19:43,362</time>
<s>我也看不出它有这个审美意识</s>
<time>534_00:19:44,802 --> 00:19:45,522</time>
<s>这怎么形成的</s>
<time>535_00:19:45,882 --> 00:19:46,242</time>
<s>我一直在想这个</s>
<time>536_00:19:46,601 --> 00:19:47,682</time>
<s>这一切怎么形成的</s>
<time>537_00:19:51,642 --> 00:19:52,002</time>
<s>人的想法</s>
<time>538_00:19:52,362 --> 00:19:54,882</time>
<s>也都是每天就是这么日常的</s>
<time>539_00:19:55,962 --> 00:19:57,042</time>
<s>就是你不来采访我的话</s>
<time>540_00:19:57,401 --> 00:19:58,482</time>
<s>我也不会想这些事情</s>
<time>541_00:19:58,842 --> 00:19:59,561</time>
<s>但是我画画的时候会想</s>
<time>542_00:20:00,641 --> 00:20:02,082</time>
<s>比方说我画花的写生的时候</s>
<time>543_00:20:03,882 --> 00:20:04,602</time>
<s>它是怎么安排的</s>
<time>544_00:20:04,962 --> 00:20:06,042</time>
<s>后来我就发现它的</s>
<time>545_00:20:06,401 --> 00:20:07,842</time>
<s>这个花跟树的这个长法</s>
<time>546_00:20:08,202 --> 00:20:08,922</time>
<s>它是有韵律的</s>
<time>547_00:20:09,282 --> 00:20:10,002</time>
<s>这个韵律就是</s>
<time>548_00:20:10,722 --> 00:20:11,442</time>
<s>就是互相避开</s>
<time>549_00:20:11,802 --> 00:20:12,162</time>
<s>不遮光</s>
<time>550_00:20:13,242 --> 00:20:13,602</time>
<s>然后呢</s>
<time>551_00:20:13,962 --> 00:20:15,762</time>
<s>最大限度地把养料大家共享</s>
<time>552_00:20:16,482 --> 00:20:17,562</time>
<s>这样它就长成一些</s>
<time>553_00:20:18,282 --> 00:20:18,642</time>
<s>我们称为</s>
<time>554_00:20:19,002 --> 00:20:20,441</time>
<s>最后觉得很美的姿态</s>
<time>555_00:20:20,802 --> 00:20:21,161</time>
<s>这个美的姿态</s>
<time>556_00:20:21,522 --> 00:20:22,242</time>
<s>你还真不能变</s>
<time>557_00:20:23,322 --> 00:20:23,682</time>
<s>这个美的姿态是</s>
<time>558_00:20:24,042 --> 00:20:25,121</time>
<s>生存的需求带来的</s>
<time>559_00:20:25,482 --> 00:20:26,562</time>
<s>它有时候自然形成了</s>
<time>560_00:20:28,002 --> 00:20:28,362</time>
<s>这种逻辑性era</s>
<time>561_00:20:28,722 --> 00:20:30,521</time>
<s>其实是非常神奇</s>
<time>562_00:20:31,242 --> 00:20:33,042</time>
<s>就它总是对的</s>
<time>563_00:20:34,122 --> 00:20:34,482</time>
<s>你看我有一段时间</s>
<time>564_00:20:34,842 --> 00:20:35,562</time>
<s>我特别关注什么</s>
<time>565_00:20:36,642 --> 00:20:37,002</time>
<s>我是一个</s>
<time>566_00:20:37,722 --> 00:20:38,442</time>
<s>兵器的迷</s>
<time>567_00:20:39,522 --> 00:20:40,242</time>
<s>我不是对那个它兵器</s>
<time>568_00:20:40,962 --> 00:20:42,402</time>
<s>是怎么进行战争感兴趣</s>
<time>569_00:20:42,762 --> 00:20:43,842</time>
<s>我是对这个兵器本身</s>
<time>570_00:20:44,202 --> 00:20:44,562</time>
<s>我觉得非常美</s>
<time>571_00:20:45,282 --> 00:20:46,362</time>
<s>它是一种非常美的形态</s>
<time>572_00:20:47,082 --> 00:20:47,802</time>
<s>其实兵器的美</s>
<time>573_00:20:48,162 --> 00:20:49,962</time>
<s>是最大限度可以体现</s>
<time>574_00:20:50,682 --> 00:20:51,402</time>
<s>自然的美</s>
<time>575_00:20:51,762 --> 00:20:53,201</time>
<s>因为兵器是拒绝装饰的</s>
<time>576_00:20:53,922 --> 00:20:54,642</time>
<s>它要实用</s>
<time>577_00:20:55,002 --> 00:20:55,362</time>
<s>它绝对实用</s>
<time>578_00:20:56,082 --> 00:20:56,801</time>
<s>不能去装饰它</s>
<time>579_00:20:57,161 --> 00:20:57,882</time>
<s>给它添个花边儿</s>
<time>580_00:20:58,242 --> 00:20:58,602</time>
<s>没有必要</s>
<time>581_00:20:58,962 --> 00:21:00,762</time>
<s>只要是进入这种领域的</s>
<time>582_00:21:01,121 --> 00:21:01,482</time>
<s>它就跟</s>
<time>583_00:21:01,842 --> 00:21:03,282</time>
<s>自然界的所有安排都一样了</s>
<time>584_00:21:03,642 --> 00:21:04,362</time>
<s>其实建筑也是</s>
<time>585_00:21:05,082 --> 00:21:05,442</time>
<s>好的建筑</s>
<time>586_00:21:05,802 --> 00:21:06,882</time>
<s>它就是因为它必须这样盖</s>
<time>587_00:21:07,601 --> 00:21:08,321</time>
<s>它不这样盖会垮</s>
<time>588_00:21:09,042 --> 00:21:10,122</time>
<s>这边要有通风的地方</s>
<time>589_00:21:11,202 --> 00:21:11,922</time>
<s>这边有遮光的地方</s>
<time>590_00:21:13,002 --> 00:21:13,722</time>
<s>它都有功能</s>
<time>591_00:21:14,082 --> 00:21:14,802</time>
<s>那这样就是好建筑</s>
<time>592_00:21:15,882 --> 00:21:16,962</time>
<s>我至于就是觉得那种</s>
<time>593_00:21:17,322 --> 00:21:18,402</time>
<s>我这什么什么顶</s>
<time>594_00:21:18,762 --> 00:21:19,842</time>
<s>做一个大龙虾</s>
<time>595_00:21:20,202 --> 00:21:20,922</time>
<s>表示我是卖龙虾的</s>
<time>596_00:21:22,361 --> 00:21:23,082</time>
<s>这种我不认为是好建筑</s>
<time>597_00:21:26,321 --> 00:21:27,042</time>
<s>哪个是好兵器呢</s>
<time>598_00:21:27,762 --> 00:21:28,482</time>
<s>好兵器就是</s>
<time>599_00:21:29,202 --> 00:21:29,562</time>
<s>就是那种</s>
<time>600_00:21:30,282 --> 00:21:31,362</time>
<s>它非常好用</s>
<time>601_00:21:32,082 --> 00:21:33,522</time>
<s>当时有一句很有名的话</s>
<time>602_00:21:34,242 --> 00:21:34,962</time>
<s>美国就说</s>
<time>603_00:21:35,322 --> 00:21:37,122</time>
<s>苏联副窃它的战斗机</s>
<time>604_00:21:37,482 --> 00:21:38,202</time>
<s>那个苏联就说了一句话</s>
<time>605_00:21:38,562 --> 00:21:39,641</time>
<s>好东西都长得一样</s>
<time>606_00:21:40,722 --> 00:21:41,082</time>
<s>也有道理</s>
<time>607_00:21:41,442 --> 00:21:42,162</time>
<s>这很有道理</s>
<time>608_00:21:42,522 --> 00:21:43,242</time>
<s>它因为优化了</s>
<time>609_00:21:43,601 --> 00:21:43,962</time>
<s>它必须是那样</s>
<time>610_00:21:44,682 --> 00:21:46,122</time>
<s>它必须哪一部分细哪个尖</s>
<time>611_00:21:46,482 --> 00:21:48,281</time>
<s>它是你没法做别的东西</s>
<time>612_00:21:48,642 --> 00:21:49,361</time>
<s>所以是不是好的绘画</s>
<time>613_00:21:49,722 --> 00:21:50,802</time>
<s>最后也是一样的</s>
<time>614_00:21:51,522 --> 00:21:52,242</time>
<s>这个我也是诡辩过</s>
<time>615_00:21:53,322 --> 00:21:54,402</time>
<s>上次在西安那次有人问的</s>
<time>616_00:21:54,762 --> 00:21:55,482</time>
<s>你觉得你跟谁谁的画</s>
<time>617_00:21:55,842 --> 00:21:56,562</time>
<s>是不是有点像</s>
<time>618_00:21:56,922 --> 00:21:57,642</time>
<s>我说</s>
<time>619_00:21:58,002 --> 00:21:58,362</time>
<s>那你觉得</s>
<time>620_00:21:58,722 --> 00:21:59,442</time>
<s>这个世界上的美女</s>
<time>621_00:21:59,802 --> 00:22:00,521</time>
<s>是不是都长得差不多</s>
<time>622_00:22:01,242 --> 00:22:01,962</time>
<s>大家就笑</s>
<time>623_00:22:02,322 --> 00:22:03,042</time>
<s>就把这个问题混过去了</s>
<time>624_00:22:05,202 --> 00:22:05,922</time>
<s>好舒服这一带</s>
<time>625_00:22:09,882 --> 00:22:11,682</time>
<s>你是2003年搬过来的是吧</s>
<time>626_00:22:12,402 --> 00:22:13,122</time>
<s>我都十几年了</s>
<time>627_00:22:15,282 --> 00:22:16,362</time>
<s>这有一个小花园</s>
<time>628_00:22:17,802 --> 00:22:18,522</time>
<s>这棵树</s>
<time>629_00:22:19,962 --> 00:22:21,402</time>
<s>原来种的时候只有一半这么高</s>
<time>630_00:22:23,562 --> 00:22:24,282</time>
<s>现在就长这么高了</s>
<time>631_00:22:24,642 --> 00:22:25,002</time>
<s>而且</s>
<time>632_00:22:25,362 --> 00:22:26,082</time>
<s>有点控制不了了</s>
<time>633_00:22:26,442 --> 00:22:27,162</time>
<s>这什么树</s>
<time>634_00:22:27,521 --> 00:22:28,602</time>
<s>榆树</s>
<time>635_00:22:29,322 --> 00:22:29,681</time>
<s>现在控制不了了</s>
<time>636_00:22:31,482 --> 00:22:31,842</time>
<s>这个树就只有</s>
<time>637_00:22:32,202 --> 00:22:34,002</time>
<s>看哪天被风吹倒就算了</s>
<time>638_00:22:34,362 --> 00:22:34,722</time>
<s>不过它有个好处</s>
<time>639_00:22:35,082 --> 00:22:36,882</time>
<s>它把游泳池的阳光全部遮完了</s>
<time>640_00:22:37,602 --> 00:22:38,322</time>
<s>夏天很舒服</s>
<time>641_00:22:39,761 --> 00:22:40,482</time>
<s>失控不是才有意思嘛</s>
<time>642_00:22:41,922 --> 00:22:43,002</time>
<s>但是尺度有点不对</s>
<time>643_00:22:43,362 --> 00:22:43,722</time>
<s>尺度</s>
<time>644_00:22:44,082 --> 00:22:45,162</time>
<s>所以房子有点像模型了</s>
<time>645_00:23:21,522 --> 00:23:22,242</time>
<s>从大凉山正式回来</s>
<time>646_00:23:23,322 --> 00:23:24,402</time>
<s>1977年进了（四川）美院</s>
<time>647_00:23:24,762 --> 00:23:26,202</time>
<s>立刻感到气氛还是不一样了</s>
<time>648_00:23:26,562 --> 00:23:27,282</time>
<s>完全不一样</s>
<time>649_00:23:27,642 --> 00:23:28,002</time>
<s>首先外国电影</s>
<time>650_00:23:28,722 --> 00:23:29,442</time>
<s>那个《人证》</s>
<time>651_00:23:29,802 --> 00:23:30,162</time>
<s>《人证》</s>
<time>652_00:23:30,882 --> 00:23:31,962</time>
<s>觉得一个电影可这么拍</s>
<time>653_00:23:32,322 --> 00:23:33,761</time>
<s>然后《人证》开头是</s>
<time>654_00:23:34,122 --> 00:23:35,922</time>
<s>纽约那个城市的空中</s>
<time>655_00:23:37,002 --> 00:23:37,722</time>
<s>看下去的镜头</s>
<time>656_00:23:38,802 --> 00:23:40,242</time>
<s>那突然一下就切换到了</s>
<time>657_00:23:40,601 --> 00:23:40,962</time>
<s>两只手</s>
<time>658_00:23:42,762 --> 00:23:43,842</time>
<s>把一个钱推过去</s>
<time>659_00:23:44,202 --> 00:23:45,642</time>
<s>另外一个手把那个钱拿到了</s>
<time>660_00:23:46,721 --> 00:23:48,522</time>
<s>然后马上又切换下一镜头</s>
<time>661_00:23:48,882 --> 00:23:49,602</time>
<s>一个黑人小伙子</s>
<time>662_00:23:50,322 --> 00:23:50,682</time>
<s>下了飞机</s>
<time>663_00:23:52,122 --> 00:23:53,562</time>
<s>很迷范地周围看</s>
<time>664_00:23:53,922 --> 00:23:54,641</time>
<s>这是蒙太奇</s>
<time>665_00:23:55,002 --> 00:23:55,722</time>
<s>看晕了我</s>
<time>666_00:23:56,082 --> 00:23:56,802</time>
<s>当时演什么</s>
<time>667_00:23:57,162 --> 00:23:58,962</time>
<s>就根本不知道什么叫蒙太奇</s>
<time>668_00:24:01,122 --> 00:24:01,842</time>
<s>那时候同学们呢</s>
<time>669_00:24:02,202 --> 00:24:02,562</time>
<s>是什么感觉呢</s>
<time>670_00:24:02,922 --> 00:24:03,641</time>
<s>我跟罗中立</s>
<time>671_00:24:04,002 --> 00:24:05,081</time>
<s>我们几个是我们班最大的</s>
<time>672_00:24:05,442 --> 00:24:06,162</time>
<s>都是1948年的</s>
<time>673_00:24:06,522 --> 00:24:07,242</time>
<s>然后</s>
<time>674_00:24:07,602 --> 00:24:07,962</time>
<s>其他最小的</s>
<time>675_00:24:08,321 --> 00:24:09,402</time>
<s>就是张晓刚他们1959年的</s>
<time>676_00:24:10,121 --> 00:24:10,482</time>
<s>还有更小的</s>
<time>677_00:24:11,202 --> 00:24:12,641</time>
<s>大家就是每天画画</s>
<time>678_00:24:13,722 --> 00:24:14,082</time>
<s>聊天</s>
<time>679_00:24:14,442 --> 00:24:15,522</time>
<s>或者听我讲故事</s>
<time>680_00:24:16,602 --> 00:24:17,321</time>
<s>我还跟我一个哥们儿</s>
<time>681_00:24:17,682 --> 00:24:19,482</time>
<s>我们俩会唱二重唱</s>
<time>682_00:24:19,842 --> 00:24:20,922</time>
<s>所以每天晚上熄灯以后</s>
<time>683_00:24:21,642 --> 00:24:23,801</time>
<s>我们俩就会不约而同地</s>
<time>684_00:24:24,161 --> 00:24:24,522</time>
<s>他到我的寝室来</s>
<time>685_00:24:24,882 --> 00:24:25,962</time>
<s>或者我去他的寝室</s>
<time>686_00:24:26,682 --> 00:24:27,761</time>
<s>我们就会唱一段</s>
<time>687_00:24:28,121 --> 00:24:29,922</time>
<s>据说女生们都把窗户打开听</s>
<time>688_00:24:30,282 --> 00:24:31,722</time>
<s>当成是收电台</s>
<time>689_00:24:33,522 --> 00:24:34,242</time>
<s>这是一个娱乐</s>
<time>690_00:24:34,601 --> 00:24:34,962</time>
<s>然后其它时间</s>
<time>691_00:24:35,322 --> 00:24:35,682</time>
<s>我们都在画画</s>
<time>692_00:24:36,402 --> 00:24:37,482</time>
<s>上课画下课画</s>
<time>693_00:24:37,842 --> 00:24:39,642</time>
<s>然后跑到周围的什么火车站</s>
<time>694_00:24:40,361 --> 00:24:40,722</time>
<s>去画速写</s>
<time>695_00:24:41,082 --> 00:24:42,522</time>
<s>当时你们在那边</s>
<time>696_00:24:42,882 --> 00:24:43,242</time>
<s>西南嘛</s>
<time>697_00:24:43,601 --> 00:24:43,962</time>
<s>同时期的</s>
<time>698_00:24:44,321 --> 00:24:45,762</time>
<s>北京也在发生很多变化嘛</s>
<time>699_00:24:46,842 --> 00:24:47,202</time>
<s>星星（美展）什么的</s>
<time>700_00:24:48,282 --> 00:24:48,642</time>
<s>星星美展</s>
<time>701_00:24:49,002 --> 00:24:49,722</time>
<s>对我们有一些震撼</s>
<time>702_00:24:50,082 --> 00:24:52,602</time>
<s>当时重庆就搞了一个</s>
<time>703_00:24:52,962 --> 00:24:54,042</time>
<s>类似星星美展的展览</s>
<time>704_00:24:54,402 --> 00:24:55,122</time>
<s>我们都参加的</s>
<time>705_00:24:55,842 --> 00:24:56,562</time>
<s>但是我画的仍然是</s>
<time>706_00:24:56,922 --> 00:24:57,642</time>
<s>《安徒生童话》的插图</s>
<time>707_00:24:58,722 --> 00:24:59,442</time>
<s>还是跟政治没关系</s>
<time>708_00:25:00,162 --> 00:25:01,242</time>
<s>是不是当时这种伤痕文学</s>
<time>709_00:25:01,602 --> 00:25:02,682</time>
<s>包括整个这个社会情绪</s>
<time>710_00:25:03,402 --> 00:25:03,762</time>
<s>对你影响也不大</s>
<time>711_00:25:04,122 --> 00:25:04,482</time>
<s>有影响</s>
<time>712_00:25:04,842 --> 00:25:05,922</time>
<s>但是没影响到我的创作</s>
<time>713_00:25:06,282 --> 00:25:07,002</time>
<s>你看我后来的画那个</s>
<time>714_00:25:08,082 --> 00:25:08,442</time>
<s>《春风已经苏醒》</s>
<time>715_00:25:08,802 --> 00:25:10,602</time>
<s>有人解读是什么改革开放</s>
<time>716_00:25:11,322 --> 00:25:12,042</time>
<s>我其实一点想法没有</s>
<time>717_00:25:12,402 --> 00:25:12,762</time>
<s>就是那句</s>
<time>718_00:25:13,122 --> 00:25:14,562</time>
<s>舒伯特的那个歌词</s>
<time>719_00:25:14,922 --> 00:25:16,002</time>
<s>我就是从那儿来的</s>
<time>720_00:25:57,042 --> 00:25:57,762</time>
<s>那时候</s>
<time>721_00:25:58,482 --> 00:25:58,842</time>
<s>！</s>
<time>722_00:25:59,202 --> 00:26:01,722</time>
<s>没想过去北京吗</s>
<time>723_00:26:02,442 --> 00:26:03,522</time>
<s>我从来就没想过</s>
<time>724_00:26:03,882 --> 00:26:04,602</time>
<s>害怕主流叙事</s>
<time>725_00:26:04,962 --> 00:26:05,322</time>
<s>喜欢边缘</s>
<time>726_00:26:06,402 --> 00:26:06,762</time>
<s>四川</s>
<time>727_00:26:07,482 --> 00:26:08,202</time>
<s>四川话叫“梭边边”</s>
<time>728_00:26:10,002 --> 00:26:11,082</time>
<s>我就是一个“梭边边”的人</s>
<time>729_00:26:11,442 --> 00:26:11,802</time>
<s>从来就是这样</s>
<time>730_00:26:12,522 --> 00:26:13,242</time>
<s>但会有焦灼吗</s>
<time>731_00:26:14,322 --> 00:26:16,122</time>
<s>因为边缘和中心之间</s>
<time>732_00:26:16,482 --> 00:26:17,562</time>
<s>还会有某种紧张关系嘛</s>
<time>733_00:26:19,362 --> 00:26:20,802</time>
<s>新美术运动开始以后</s>
<time>734_00:26:21,162 --> 00:26:22,602</time>
<s>因为四川美院是先出名的</s>
<time>735_00:26:22,962 --> 00:26:24,402</time>
<s>我应该是算他们的一份子</s>
<time>736_00:26:25,482 --> 00:26:26,202</time>
<s>但是我很快</s>
<time>737_00:26:26,562 --> 00:26:28,002</time>
<s>我就走向我自己的路子</s>
<time>738_00:26:28,362 --> 00:26:29,442</time>
<s>然后“八五新潮”的时候</s>
<time>739_00:26:30,882 --> 00:26:31,602</time>
<s>“政治波普”什么</s>
<time>740_00:26:31,962 --> 00:26:33,402</time>
<s>很多人以为我不关注这些</s>
<time>741_00:26:33,762 --> 00:26:34,842</time>
<s>其实我特别关注</s>
<time>742_00:26:35,202 --> 00:26:35,562</time>
<s>我都看</s>
<time>743_00:26:36,282 --> 00:26:37,362</time>
<s>而且我马上就有判断</s>
<time>744_00:26:37,722 --> 00:26:39,162</time>
<s>他们的地位会非常高</s>
<time>745_00:26:40,602 --> 00:26:43,122</time>
<s>他们会成为中国新美术的里程碑</s>
<time>746_00:26:44,202 --> 00:26:44,922</time>
<s>一定是个里程碑</s>
<time>747_00:26:45,282 --> 00:26:46,362</time>
<s>但是我绝对不打算去靠拢</s>
<time>748_00:26:46,722 --> 00:26:47,442</time>
<s>我打算远离</s>
<time>749_00:26:48,882 --> 00:26:49,242</time>
<s>我要远离</s>
<time>750_00:26:49,602 --> 00:26:50,322</time>
<s>我要走我自己的路</s>
<time>751_00:26:51,402 --> 00:26:51,762</time>
<s>就是这样</s>
<time>752_00:26:52,482 --> 00:26:53,922</time>
<s>你是很怕自己成为里程碑</s>
<time>753_00:26:54,282 --> 00:26:54,642</time>
<s>我也不是怕</s>
<time>754_00:26:55,002 --> 00:26:55,722</time>
<s>我就是去中心化</s>
<time>755_00:26:56,082 --> 00:26:56,802</time>
<s>躲避中心的一个人</s>
<time>756_00:26:57,882 --> 00:26:58,242</time>
<s>就是这次（策展人）朱朱</s>
<time>757_00:26:58,602 --> 00:26:59,682</time>
<s>给我一个总结</s>
<time>758_00:27:00,042 --> 00:27:01,482</time>
<s>“时间的私有化”</s>
<time>759_00:27:02,922 --> 00:27:03,642</time>
<s>我这么多年</s>
<time>760_00:27:04,722 --> 00:27:05,442</time>
<s>画了这么多年画</s>
<time>761_00:27:05,802 --> 00:27:07,242</time>
<s>我其实致力于就是这个</s>
<time>762_00:27:08,322 --> 00:27:10,122</time>
<s>就是怎么从一个巨大的时代</s>
<time>763_00:27:10,482 --> 00:27:12,282</time>
<s>一个巨大的主流叙事里边</s>
<time>764_00:27:13,362 --> 00:27:14,082</time>
<s>找到自己的位置</s>
<time>765_00:27:15,522 --> 00:27:16,962</time>
<s>哪怕就是一个小小的位置</s>
<time>766_00:27:17,322 --> 00:27:18,042</time>
<s>就是王小波说的</s>
<time>767_00:27:18,402 --> 00:27:19,842</time>
<s>一个“老母鸡孵蛋”的一个位置</s>
<time>768_00:27:20,922 --> 00:27:21,642</time>
<s>怎么找到这个位置</s>
<time>769_00:27:22,722 --> 00:27:23,802</time>
<s>我一直在找这个东西</s>
<time>770_00:27:24,162 --> 00:27:25,602</time>
<s>其实你因为你特别早</s>
<time>771_00:27:25,962 --> 00:27:27,402</time>
<s>好像你就总是独来独往</s>
<time>772_00:27:27,762 --> 00:27:28,842</time>
<s>一定要找自己的“眼晴”也好</s>
<time>773_00:27:29,202 --> 00:27:29,562</time>
<s>思维也好</s>
<time>774_00:27:29,922 --> 00:27:31,002</time>
<s>你什么时候意识到这一点的</s>
<time>775_00:27:32,442 --> 00:27:33,522</time>
<s>这说明我这个人没出息吧</s>
<time>776_00:27:33,882 --> 00:27:34,962</time>
<s>要么就说</s>
<time>777_00:27:35,322 --> 00:27:37,482</time>
<s>对大事真是不是太关心了</s>
<time>778_00:27:37,842 --> 00:27:38,922</time>
<s>就关心自己</s>
<time>779_00:27:39,642 --> 00:27:41,442</time>
<s>自己想做的那么点事儿</s>
<time>780_00:27:42,162 --> 00:27:42,882</time>
<s>其实就是这个认识吧</s>
<time>781_00:27:43,602 --> 00:27:45,402</time>
<s>审美就应该是非常个人化的</s>
<time>782_00:27:46,482 --> 00:27:47,562</time>
<s>你看我们毕业的时候</s>
<time>783_00:27:48,642 --> 00:27:49,002</time>
<s>学校</s>
<time>784_00:27:49,362 --> 00:27:50,802</time>
<s>因为当时正好全国美展恢复了</s>
<time>785_00:27:51,882 --> 00:27:53,682</time>
<s>最早是青年美展全国</s>
<time>786_00:27:54,042 --> 00:27:55,842</time>
<s>然后学校就动员我们</s>
<time>787_00:27:56,202 --> 00:27:57,282</time>
<s>学生都可以参加创作</s>
<time>788_00:27:58,362 --> 00:27:59,082</time>
<s>去参加这个展览</s>
<time>789_00:27:59,442 --> 00:28:00,882</time>
<s>然后学校的动员是怎么说的</s>
<time>790_00:28:01,962 --> 00:28:02,682</time>
<s>你们想画什么画什么</s>
<time>791_00:28:03,762 --> 00:28:04,842</time>
<s>你看我这个人就是</s>
<time>792_00:28:05,202 --> 00:28:06,642</time>
<s>在那种情况下</s>
<time>793_00:28:07,362 --> 00:28:09,162</time>
<s>我还是对政治背景没兴趣</s>
<time>794_00:28:10,242 --> 00:28:11,682</time>
<s>我想到的唯十一个知青生活</s>
<time>795_00:28:13,482 --> 00:28:14,922</time>
<s>我想到那个《外国民歌200首》</s>
<time>796_00:28:15,642 --> 00:28:16,362</time>
<s>画了一个那个</s>
<time>797_00:28:16,722 --> 00:28:17,802</time>
<s>《我们曾经唱过这支歌》</s>
<time>798_00:28:21,402 --> 00:28:22,482</time>
<s>领导一看这什么东西</s>
<time>799_00:28:23,922 --> 00:28:25,002</time>
<s>当时所有的画都得有故事</s>
<time>800_00:28:26,082 --> 00:28:26,442</time>
<s>都得有个情节</s>
<time>801_00:28:26,802 --> 00:28:28,242</time>
<s>都得有一个想法</s>
<time>802_00:28:28,962 --> 00:28:30,402</time>
<s>然后那个罗中立这个《父亲》</s>
<time>803_00:28:30,762 --> 00:28:31,482</time>
<s>本来是没情节</s>
<time>804_00:28:31,842 --> 00:28:33,282</time>
<s>后来被领导要求说</s>
<time>805_00:28:33,642 --> 00:28:35,442</time>
<s>你这画的是什么时代的农民</s>
<time>806_00:28:36,162 --> 00:28:36,882</time>
<s>加个圆珠笔吧</s>
<time>807_00:28:37,242 --> 00:28:38,322</time>
<s>证明是当代的农民</s>
<time>808_00:28:39,762 --> 00:28:40,122</time>
<s>是有文化的</s>
<time>809_00:28:40,842 --> 00:28:41,562</time>
<s>就画了个圆珠笔</s>
<time>810_00:28:41,922 --> 00:28:42,282</time>
<s>在这夹着</s>
<time>811_00:28:47,682 --> 00:28:48,762</time>
<s>好这就是一个情节</s>
<time>812_00:28:49,122 --> 00:28:49,482</time>
<s>这个很关键</s>
<time>813_00:28:49,842 --> 00:28:51,282</time>
<s>对领导来说特别关键</s>
<time>814_00:28:51,642 --> 00:28:52,002</time>
<s>你没这个情节</s>
<time>815_00:28:52,362 --> 00:28:53,082</time>
<s>他的画就选不上</s>
<time>816_00:28:53,802 --> 00:28:54,522</time>
<s>罗中立也就不存在</s>
<time>817_00:28:55,962 --> 00:28:57,402</time>
<s>我当时的画就是没情节</s>
<time>818_00:28:57,762 --> 00:28:58,842</time>
<s>人家说你唱的什么歌</s>
<time>819_00:28:59,202 --> 00:29:00,282</time>
<s>这个没说清楚</s>
<time>820_00:29:00,642 --> 00:29:02,082</time>
<s>这画不能展出</s>
<time>821_00:29:05,322 --> 00:29:05,682</time>
<s>那唱一首吧</s>
<time>822_00:29:06,762 --> 00:29:07,482</time>
<s>许老师也是一兄弟</s>
<time>823_00:29:07,842 --> 00:29:08,562</time>
<s>过来（唱歌）</s>
<time>824_00:29:09,282 --> 00:29:10,362</time>
<s>我是个就走调的</s>
<time>825_00:29:10,722 --> 00:29:11,802</time>
<s>走调兄弟</s>
<time>826_00:29:12,522 --> 00:29:13,962</time>
<s>走调你相当于多了个声部</s>
<time>827_00:29:14,322 --> 00:29:14,682</time>
<s>你知道吗</s>
<time>828_00:29:17,562 --> 00:29:18,282</time>
<s>花洛伺处激</s>
<time>829_00:29:18,642 --> 00:29:19,002</time>
<s>花落何处水激</s>
<time>830_00:29:19,362 --> 00:29:19,722</time>
<s>花洛何处激</s>
<time>831_00:29:20,082 --> 00:29:22,962</time>
<s>时无一去不复返激</s>
<time>832_00:29:26,922 --> 00:29:27,642</time>
<s>时儿爱激</s>
<time>833_00:29:35,922 --> 00:29:38,082</time>
<s>姑娘们把它摘去了激</s>
<time>834_00:29:38,442 --> 00:29:41,322</time>
<s>何时它们才会知道激</s>
<time>835_00:29:41,682 --> 00:29:47,802</time>
<s>何时它们才会知道激</s>
<time>836_00:30:25,242 --> 00:30:25,602</time>
<s>当时很了不起啊</s>
<time>837_00:30:25,962 --> 00:30:27,402</time>
<s>那个时代是一个诗人</s>
<time>838_00:30:27,762 --> 00:30:28,842</time>
<s>就凭一个诗人的名头</s>
<time>839_00:30:29,202 --> 00:30:29,922</time>
<s>可以走遍全国</s>
<time>840_00:30:30,282 --> 00:30:31,362</time>
<s>到处有吃有喝有接待</s>
<time>841_00:30:31,722 --> 00:30:33,522</time>
<s>所以当时文化圈</s>
<time>842_00:30:33,882 --> 00:30:34,242</time>
<s>也是有等级</s>
<time>843_00:30:34,602 --> 00:30:35,322</time>
<s>诗人是最高等级</s>
<time>844_00:30:35,682 --> 00:30:36,042</time>
<s>对对对确实</s>
<time>845_00:30:37,842 --> 00:30:39,282</time>
<s>所以那个时代真是一个黄金时代</s>
<time>846_00:30:43,602 --> 00:30:45,042</time>
<s>很快戛然而止</s>
<time>847_00:30:45,402 --> 00:30:46,482</time>
<s>就是真正的市场经济</s>
<time>848_00:30:46,842 --> 00:30:48,282</time>
<s>很多地方跟国际接轨了</s>
<time>849_00:30:48,642 --> 00:30:50,802</time>
<s>拍卖会（上）有那个天价</s>
<time>850_00:30:51,162 --> 00:30:52,242</time>
<s>比方说原来我们有些画家</s>
<time>851_00:30:52,602 --> 00:30:53,322</time>
<s>画价跟我差不多</s>
<time>852_00:30:53,682 --> 00:30:54,762</time>
<s>突然一下他比我多个零了</s>
<time>853_00:30:55,122 --> 00:30:55,842</time>
<s>当时什么感觉</s>
<time>854_00:30:56,202 --> 00:30:57,642</time>
<s>没什么感觉</s>
<time>855_00:30:58,002 --> 00:30:58,362</time>
<s>觉得正常</s>
<time>856_00:31:03,762 --> 00:31:05,562</time>
<s>你看我被市场接纳</s>
<time>857_00:31:05,922 --> 00:31:07,002</time>
<s>或者被市场开除</s>
<time>858_00:31:07,722 --> 00:31:08,082</time>
<s>都有过</s>
<time>859_00:31:08,442 --> 00:31:08,802</time>
<s>但是我都毫（无）</s>
<time>860_00:31:09,162 --> 00:31:10,242</time>
<s>我都没感觉</s>
<time>861_00:31:15,282 --> 00:31:17,442</time>
<s>我做的是一个创造性的</s>
<time>862_00:31:18,162 --> 00:31:19,962</time>
<s>我比较满意的一个事情</s>
<time>863_00:31:21,762 --> 00:31:23,922</time>
<s>而不是被什么支配的</s>
<time>864_00:31:33,282 --> 00:31:33,642</time>
<s>我觉得我应该</s>
<time>865_00:31:34,002 --> 00:31:34,362</time>
<s>早一些年认识他</s>
<time>866_00:31:34,722 --> 00:31:35,802</time>
<s>就跟他到处玩</s>
<time>867_00:31:36,162 --> 00:31:36,882</time>
<s>我觉得他是一个</s>
<time>868_00:31:38,322 --> 00:31:39,042</time>
<s>特别好的一个</s>
<time>869_00:31:40,842 --> 00:31:41,202</time>
<s>玩伴</s>
<time>870_00:31:42,282 --> 00:31:43,002</time>
<s>而且他在这个</s>
<time>871_00:31:43,722 --> 00:31:45,522</time>
<s>中国这个西南的城市一角</s>
<time>872_00:31:46,242 --> 00:31:47,322</time>
<s>按照自己的方式</s>
