<time>443_00:15:13,362 --> 00:15:15,522</time>
<s>中国和日本为什么在后来</s>
<time>444_00:15:15,882 --> 00:15:16,602</time>
<s>现代化的道路</s>
<time>445_00:15:17,322 --> 00:15:18,762</time>
<s>最后的结果是不一样的</s>
<time>446_00:15:20,202 --> 00:15:20,922</time>
<s>所以日本呢</s>
<time>447_00:15:21,282 --> 00:15:22,722</time>
<s>它跟中国的差异</s>
<time>448_00:15:23,082 --> 00:15:25,602</time>
<s>其实并不来自于思想的差异</s>
<time>449_00:15:25,962 --> 00:15:28,122</time>
<s>而是来自它背后语境</s>
<time>450_00:15:28,482 --> 00:15:31,362</time>
<s>也就是政治和社会的差异性</s>
<time>451_00:15:32,082 --> 00:15:33,522</time>
<s>决定了它思想的不同</s>
<time>452_00:15:34,962 --> 00:15:36,402</time>
<s>所以我们一直就讲</s>
<time>453_00:15:36,762 --> 00:15:38,202</time>
<s>思想史并不完全是</s>
<time>454_00:15:38,562 --> 00:15:39,642</time>
<s>只是单纯地</s>
<time>455_00:15:40,002 --> 00:15:40,722</time>
<s>就思想谈思想</s>
<time>456_00:15:42,162 --> 00:15:42,522</time>
<s>它实际上是</s>
<time>457_00:15:42,882 --> 00:15:44,322</time>
<s>背后的政治和社会</s>
<time>458_00:15:44,682 --> 00:15:45,762</time>
<s>影响特别大</s>
<time>459_00:16:18,882 --> 00:16:20,682</time>
<s>我在街上装样子装得可以吧</s>
<time>460_00:16:22,482 --> 00:16:23,202</time>
<s>你这个</s>
<time>461_00:16:23,562 --> 00:16:24,282</time>
<s>对贵阳感觉怎么样</s>
<time>462_00:16:25,362 --> 00:16:26,082</time>
<s>我很喜欢贵阳</s>
<time>463_00:16:26,802 --> 00:16:27,522</time>
<s>而且我喜欢看他们</s>
<time>464_00:16:27,882 --> 00:16:28,242</time>
<s>冬天动不动就</s>
<time>465_00:16:28,602 --> 00:16:29,322</time>
<s>路边上一堆人在烤火</s>
<time>466_00:16:29,682 --> 00:16:30,762</time>
<s>我说这别的城市都没有</s>
<time>467_00:16:31,122 --> 00:16:31,482</time>
<s>没有没有</s>
<time>468_00:16:32,202 --> 00:16:34,002</time>
<s>而且还是挺有野性的</s>
<time>469_00:16:34,362 --> 00:16:36,882</time>
<s>对昨天晚上回来的时候</s>
<time>470_00:16:37,242 --> 00:16:38,322</time>
<s>拍照片那个女孩跟我讲</s>
<time>471_00:16:38,682 --> 00:16:40,122</time>
<s>她以前是贵州日报的</s>
<time>472_00:16:40,842 --> 00:16:43,362</time>
<s>1967年4月的一张报纸</s>
<time>473_00:16:43,722 --> 00:16:45,522</time>
<s>上面有我写的一首诗</s>
<time>474_00:16:45,882 --> 00:16:46,602</time>
<s>真的啊</s>
<time>475_00:16:46,962 --> 00:16:47,322</time>
<s>初中几年级啊</s>
<time>476_00:16:48,042 --> 00:16:49,122</time>
<s>初三</s>
<time>477_00:16:49,482 --> 00:16:51,642</time>
<s>那你发表上面不是很轰动吗</s>
<time>478_00:16:52,722 --> 00:16:53,082</time>
<s>有点轰动</s>
<time>479_00:16:53,442 --> 00:16:54,882</time>
<s>因为我后来在凯里</s>
<time>480_00:16:55,242 --> 00:16:56,682</time>
<s>十七岁的时候当了</s>
<time>481_00:16:57,402 --> 00:16:58,122</time>
<s>第一把手编剧</s>
<time>482_00:16:58,482 --> 00:17:00,642</time>
<s>整个黔东南文工团</s>
<time>483_00:17:01,002 --> 00:17:02,082</time>
<s>演出一个</s>
<time>484_00:17:02,442 --> 00:17:03,522</time>
<s>大型歌舞剧对</s>
<time>485_00:17:03,882 --> 00:17:05,682</time>
<s>当了一把编剧</s>
<time>486_00:17:06,042 --> 00:17:06,402</time>
<s>那是我</s>
<time>487_00:17:06,762 --> 00:17:07,842</time>
<s>高光时刻</s>
<time>488_00:17:09,641 --> 00:17:11,442</time>
<s>第一个高光时刻</s>
<time>489_00:17:12,161 --> 00:17:13,602</time>
<s>那时候对名声什么感觉</s>
<time>490_00:17:13,962 --> 00:17:15,402</time>
<s>到处都有饭吃</s>
<time>491_00:17:15,762 --> 00:17:16,482</time>
<s>所以是很实惠的</s>
<time>492_00:17:16,842 --> 00:17:17,562</time>
<s>小心</s>
<time>493_00:17:21,882 --> 00:17:22,242</time>
<s>我们在这吃</s>
<time>494_00:17:22,601 --> 00:17:22,962</time>
<s>对就在这吃吧</s>
<time>495_00:17:23,322 --> 00:17:24,401</time>
<s>好挺好的</s>
<time>496_00:17:24,762 --> 00:17:25,482</time>
<s>你们（吃了吗）</s>
<time>497_00:17:25,842 --> 00:17:26,562</time>
<s>他们吃过了</s>
<time>498_00:17:28,002 --> 00:17:28,722</time>
<s>葛老师你想吃哪个</s>
<time>499_00:17:29,802 --> 00:17:31,242</time>
<s>清片牛肉粉</s>
<time>500_00:17:31,962 --> 00:17:33,762</time>
<s>要一个清片牛肉粉</s>
<time>501_00:17:34,842 --> 00:17:35,202</time>
<s>您要加肉吗</s>
<time>502_00:17:35,562 --> 00:17:35,922</time>
<s>不要加肉</s>
<time>503_00:17:36,282 --> 00:17:37,002</time>
<s>（加）鸡蛋吗</s>
<time>504_00:17:37,361 --> 00:17:37,722</time>
<s>不要</s>
<time>505_00:17:38,082 --> 00:17:39,161</time>
<s>我那个红烧牛肉粉</s>
<time>506_00:17:39,522 --> 00:17:39,882</time>
<s>加个鸡蛋</s>
<time>507_00:17:40,601 --> 00:17:41,322</time>
<s>来葛老师</s>
<time>508_00:17:41,682 --> 00:17:42,402</time>
<s>好谢谢</s>
<time>509_00:17:45,642 --> 00:17:47,081</time>
<s>您反而不是很能吃辣的是吧</s>
<time>510_00:17:47,442 --> 00:17:48,161</time>
<s>以前能吃</s>
<time>511_00:17:48,522 --> 00:17:49,602</time>
<s>现在眼晴做手术了</s>
<time>512_00:17:49,962 --> 00:17:50,322</time>
<s>不行了</s>
<time>513_00:17:51,402 --> 00:17:52,842</time>
<s>当知青的时候到饭店</s>
<time>514_00:17:53,202 --> 00:17:53,922</time>
<s>把这辣椒就</s>
<time>515_00:17:54,282 --> 00:17:55,722</time>
<s>都瑞兜里了</s>
<time>516_00:17:57,162 --> 00:17:57,882</time>
<s>我们那时候啊</s>
<time>517_00:17:58,602 --> 00:17:58,962</time>
<s>赌</s>
<time>518_00:18:00,042 --> 00:18:00,762</time>
<s>啊还有肚儿吗</s>
<time>519_00:18:01,121 --> 00:18:01,842</time>
<s>赌什么呢</s>
<time>520_00:18:02,202 --> 00:18:03,641</time>
<s>你们可能没见过那种</s>
<time>521_00:18:04,002 --> 00:18:05,802</time>
<s>玻璃瓶的红烧猪肉罐头</s>
<time>522_00:18:06,162 --> 00:18:06,522</time>
<s>没有</s>
<time>523_00:18:06,882 --> 00:18:07,602</time>
<s>上面全是油的那种</s>
<time>524_00:18:07,962 --> 00:18:08,682</time>
<s>一分钟吃完</s>
<time>525_00:18:10,122 --> 00:18:11,562</time>
<s>结果我55秒就吃完了</s>
<time>526_00:18:11,922 --> 00:18:13,362</time>
<s>那就白吃了一罐白吃</s>
<time>527_00:18:13,722 --> 00:18:15,161</time>
<s>我们那时候笑话百出</s>
<time>528_00:18:15,522 --> 00:18:15,882</time>
<s>为什么呢</s>
<time>529_00:18:16,242 --> 00:18:16,602</time>
<s>在大田村（下乡）的时候</s>
<time>530_00:18:16,962 --> 00:18:19,122</time>
<s>一年你才吃到一两回猪肉</s>
<time>531_00:18:19,482 --> 00:18:20,202</time>
<s>就是饥饿</s>
<time>532_00:18:20,922 --> 00:18:21,641</time>
<s>不赖您啊</s>
<time>533_00:18:22,002 --> 00:18:22,722</time>
<s>我太太就</s>
<time>534_00:18:23,082 --> 00:18:23,802</time>
<s>特别烦我这个</s>
<time>535_00:18:24,162 --> 00:18:25,602</time>
<s>总是好像说要吃饭</s>
<time>536_00:18:25,962 --> 00:18:27,762</time>
<s>而且好像非得有肉</s>
<time>537_00:18:31,002 --> 00:18:31,722</time>
<s>我要加一份牛肉</s>
<time>538_00:18:32,082 --> 00:18:33,161</time>
<s>哎呀行啊你</s>
<time>539_00:18:35,322 --> 00:18:36,401</time>
<s>我加一份牛肉好吧可以</s>
<time>540_00:18:48,641 --> 00:18:49,362</time>
<s>悟道园</s>
<time>541_00:18:49,722 --> 00:18:50,082</time>
<s>我们要悟道是吗</s>
<time>542_00:18:50,442 --> 00:18:51,161</time>
<s>悟道</s>
<time>543_00:18:51,522 --> 00:18:52,242</time>
<s>让你玩呗</s>
<time>544_00:18:53,682 --> 00:18:54,762</time>
<s>您最早接触到王阳明</s>
<time>545_00:18:55,121 --> 00:18:55,842</time>
<s>是什么时候啊</s>
<time>546_00:18:56,201 --> 00:18:57,282</time>
<s>在知青的时候不就</s>
<time>547_00:18:57,641 --> 00:18:58,362</time>
<s>有一本那个</s>
<time>548_00:18:58,722 --> 00:18:59,802</time>
<s>《明儒学案》</s>
<time>549_00:19:00,161 --> 00:19:01,602</time>
<s>就在那看的嘛</s>
<time>550_00:19:01,962 --> 00:19:03,401</time>
<s>其实我们想王阳明到</s>
<time>551_00:19:03,762 --> 00:19:05,202</time>
<s>龙场这个地方的时候啊</s>
<time>552_00:19:05,562 --> 00:19:07,362</time>
<s>心情肯定特别糟糕我跟你说</s>
<time>553_00:19:07,722 --> 00:19:08,442</time>
<s>被流放到这了嘛</s>
<time>554_00:19:08,802 --> 00:19:09,161</time>
<s>就是说</s>
<time>555_00:19:09,522 --> 00:19:11,682</time>
<s>正德皇帝一上台</s>
<time>556_00:19:12,042 --> 00:19:14,202</time>
<s>第一个脱了裤子打屁股的</s>
<time>557_00:19:14,561 --> 00:19:15,641</time>
<s>就是王阳明</s>
<time>558_00:19:16,002 --> 00:19:16,362</time>
<s>这么大的羞辱</s>
<time>559_00:19:16,722 --> 00:19:17,082</time>
<s>对</s>
<time>560_00:19:17,442 --> 00:19:18,522</time>
<s>以前因为这个朱元璋</s>
<time>561_00:19:18,882 --> 00:19:19,962</time>
<s>当然也廷杖</s>
<time>562_00:19:20,322 --> 00:19:22,482</time>
<s>但是呢没有说去小衣的</s>
<time>563_00:19:23,562 --> 00:19:25,002</time>
<s>就是还有个内裤</s>
<time>564_00:19:26,082 --> 00:19:27,522</time>
<s>穿着里面的裤子打</s>
<time>565_00:19:28,602 --> 00:19:30,042</time>
<s>当时王阳明是怎么得罪他的</s>
<time>566_00:19:30,401 --> 00:19:32,562</time>
<s>王阳明是写一个什么东西</s>
<time>567_00:19:32,922 --> 00:19:34,362</time>
<s>救一个什么人</s>
<time>568_00:19:35,082 --> 00:19:36,522</time>
<s>结果就得罪了皇帝</s>
<time>569_00:19:36,882 --> 00:19:39,042</time>
<s>你说这有多大个事儿吗</s>
<time>570_00:19:39,402 --> 00:19:39,762</time>
<s>结果搞了</s>
<time>571_00:19:40,122 --> 00:19:41,562</time>
<s>第一个脱衣廷杖的人</s>
<time>572_00:19:41,922 --> 00:19:43,362</time>
<s>居然是王阳明</s>
<time>573_00:19:43,722 --> 00:19:44,442</time>
<s>所以他就跑到</s>
<time>574_00:19:45,522 --> 00:19:46,962</time>
<s>跑到这边来了呗</s>
<time>575_00:19:49,122 --> 00:19:49,482</time>
<s>看看这个</s>
<time>576_00:19:49,842 --> 00:19:50,562</time>
<s>哎呦</s>
<time>577_00:19:51,641 --> 00:19:52,002</time>
<s>哎呦</s>
<time>578_00:19:53,802 --> 00:19:55,242</time>
<s>这太大了</s>
<time>579_00:19:59,202 --> 00:19:59,922</time>
<s>您怎么解释</s>
<time>580_00:20:00,282 --> 00:20:01,362</time>
<s>为什么好像这些年</s>
<time>581_00:20:02,082 --> 00:20:03,161</time>
<s>突然变得这么热起来</s>
<time>582_00:20:03,522 --> 00:20:05,682</time>
<s>做商业的什么各个行业的人</s>
<time>583_00:20:06,042 --> 00:20:06,402</time>
<s>就是说</s>
<time>584_00:20:06,762 --> 00:20:07,842</time>
<s>过去对王阳明</s>
<time>585_00:20:08,202 --> 00:20:10,002</time>
<s>最强调就是说他心即理</s>
<time>586_00:20:10,722 --> 00:20:11,802</time>
<s>心外无理</s>
<time>587_00:20:12,162 --> 00:20:13,602</time>
<s>吾心就是宇宙</s>
<time>588_00:20:14,322 --> 00:20:16,122</time>
<s>完全是从那个形而上的角度</s>
<time>589_00:20:16,482 --> 00:20:17,202</time>
<s>那这几年呢</s>
<time>590_00:20:17,562 --> 00:20:18,642</time>
<s>有一个很大的变化</s>
<time>591_00:20:19,002 --> 00:20:19,362</time>
<s>就是说</s>
<time>592_00:20:20,082 --> 00:20:21,162</time>
<s>王阳明</s>
<time>593_00:20:21,522 --> 00:20:23,322</time>
<s>是代表了儒家传统的</s>
<time>594_00:20:23,682 --> 00:20:25,842</time>
<s>一个非常重要的转折</s>
<time>595_00:20:26,562 --> 00:20:28,002</time>
<s>宋代以前基本上知识分子</s>
<time>596_00:20:28,362 --> 00:20:29,082</time>
<s>是认为说</s>
<time>597_00:20:29,442 --> 00:20:30,522</time>
<s>要得君行道</s>
<time>598_00:20:30,882 --> 00:20:32,322</time>
<s>然后我们把我们的理想</s>
<time>599_00:20:32,682 --> 00:20:33,402</time>
<s>实现出来</s>
<time>600_00:20:34,122 --> 00:20:34,481</time>
<s>可是</s>
<time>601_00:20:34,842 --> 00:20:35,562</time>
<s>到了王阳明就发生了</s>
<time>602_00:20:35,921 --> 00:20:37,002</time>
<s>一个根本的转变叫做</s>
<time>603_00:20:37,362 --> 00:20:38,802</time>
<s>觉民行道</s>
<time>604_00:20:39,161 --> 00:20:40,242</time>
<s>就是启发民众</s>
<time>605_00:20:40,602 --> 00:20:41,322</time>
<s>来</s>
<time>606_00:20:41,682 --> 00:20:42,402</time>
<s>实现我的理想</s>
<time>607_00:20:43,482 --> 00:20:44,562</time>
<s>就是这个事</s>
<time>608_00:20:44,922 --> 00:20:45,642</time>
<s>皇帝打了屁股了</s>
<time>609_00:20:46,002 --> 00:20:47,802</time>
<s>对皇帝已经很失望了</s>
<time>610_00:20:48,162 --> 00:20:49,242</time>
<s>丢掉幻想</s>
<time>611_00:20:49,602 --> 00:20:50,322</time>
<s>深入群众</s>
<time>612_00:20:51,042 --> 00:20:52,482</time>
<s>就是我后来有一段时间</s>
<time>613_00:20:52,842 --> 00:20:53,922</time>
<s>非常仔细地去看</s>
<time>614_00:20:54,282 --> 00:20:56,082</time>
<s>嘉靖六年到嘉靖七年</s>
<time>615_00:20:56,442 --> 00:20:58,601</time>
<s>他最后死前这两年</s>
<time>616_00:20:58,962 --> 00:20:59,682</time>
<s>心情仍然不好</s>
<time>617_00:21:00,762 --> 00:21:01,122</time>
<s>就是说</s>
<time>618_00:21:01,842 --> 00:21:03,282</time>
<s>皇帝根本不相信我</s>
<time>619_00:21:03,642 --> 00:21:05,442</time>
<s>幸好王阳明会教学生</s>
<time>620_00:21:05,802 --> 00:21:07,242</time>
<s>他一大帮好学生</s>
<time>621_00:21:07,602 --> 00:21:07,962</time>
<s>学生的学生</s>
<time>622_00:21:09,042 --> 00:21:10,482</time>
<s>后来最后当了个大官</s>
<time>623_00:21:10,842 --> 00:21:11,202</time>
<s>结果就</s>
<time>624_00:21:12,641 --> 00:21:14,442</time>
<s>万历皇帝的时候终于</s>
<time>625_00:21:15,162 --> 00:21:17,682</time>
<s>名正言顺地平反了而且</s>
<time>626_00:21:18,042 --> 00:21:19,842</time>
<s>进入孔庙的祭祀</s>
<time>627_00:21:20,202 --> 00:21:21,282</time>
<s>这个厉害了</s>
<time>628_00:21:21,642 --> 00:21:23,442</time>
<s>所以王阳明活着的时候啊</s>
<time>629_00:21:23,802 --> 00:21:24,882</time>
<s>心情不怎么好</s>
<time>630_00:21:25,242 --> 00:21:25,962</time>
<s>你别看他那样子</s>
<time>631_00:21:27,762 --> 00:21:28,122</time>
<s>尤其在这段时间</s>
<time>632_00:21:28,482 --> 00:21:29,202</time>
<s>心情尤其不好</s>
<time>633_00:21:29,562 --> 00:21:30,642</time>
<s>这段时间心情是</s>
<time>634_00:21:31,002 --> 00:21:31,722</time>
<s>最不好的时候</s>
<time>635_00:21:32,802 --> 00:21:33,522</time>
<s>所以悟道</s>
<time>636_00:21:36,401 --> 00:21:38,922</time>
<s>这个是特意放的这个烟雾吗</s>
<time>637_00:21:39,282 --> 00:21:40,361</time>
<s>咱们有这么好待遇吗</s>
<time>638_00:21:42,882 --> 00:21:43,602</time>
<s>这修得还真是漂亮</s>
<time>639_00:21:43,962 --> 00:21:46,482</time>
<s>他是让您兴奋的思想人物吗</s>
<time>640_00:21:47,202 --> 00:21:49,002</time>
<s>应该不能特别算</s>
<time>641_00:21:49,722 --> 00:21:50,442</time>
<s>特别注意他</s>
<time>642_00:21:50,802 --> 00:21:52,242</time>
<s>主要是因为他</s>
<time>643_00:21:52,602 --> 00:21:54,401</time>
<s>他的那个后续效果</s>
<time>644_00:21:54,762 --> 00:21:56,562</time>
<s>无意中他可能启发了</s>
<time>645_00:21:56,922 --> 00:21:58,362</time>
<s>很多别的东西</s>
<time>646_00:21:58,722 --> 00:21:59,082</time>
<s>你比如说</s>
<time>647_00:21:59,442 --> 00:22:00,161</time>
<s>我们现在讲</s>
<time>648_00:22:00,522 --> 00:22:01,242</time>
<s>世界主义</s>
<time>649_00:22:02,322 --> 00:22:04,482</time>
<s>那王阳明继承了陆九渊</s>
<time>650_00:22:05,202 --> 00:22:06,641</time>
<s>东海西海</s>
<time>651_00:22:07,002 --> 00:22:08,082</time>
<s>心同理同是吧</s>
<time>652_00:22:08,802 --> 00:22:10,602</time>
<s>这个话呢后来成了</s>
<time>653_00:22:10,962 --> 00:22:13,482</time>
<s>中国接受外来文化的一个</s>
<time>654_00:22:14,562 --> 00:22:16,361</time>
<s>非常大的精神资源就是说</s>
<time>655_00:22:17,082 --> 00:22:17,442</time>
<s>你不能够</s>
<time>656_00:22:17,802 --> 00:22:18,522</time>
<s>把真理分成</s>
<time>657_00:22:18,882 --> 00:22:19,602</time>
<s>是我东海的真理</s>
<time>658_00:22:19,962 --> 00:22:20,682</time>
<s>西海的真理</s>
<time>659_00:22:21,042 --> 00:22:22,122</time>
<s>都应该是真理</s>
<time>660_00:22:23,202 --> 00:22:23,922</time>
<s>给了一种合法性</s>
<time>661_00:22:24,282 --> 00:22:25,002</time>
<s>一个巨大的合法性</s>
<time>662_00:22:25,362 --> 00:22:26,802</time>
<s>他进行了一次思想解放</s>
<time>663_00:22:27,161 --> 00:22:27,882</time>
<s>其实某种意义上</s>
<time>664_00:22:28,962 --> 00:22:29,322</time>
<s>他也许</s>
<time>665_00:22:30,401 --> 00:22:31,122</time>
<s>不那么想</s>
<time>666_00:22:31,842 --> 00:22:32,922</time>
<s>但是呢无意中</s>
<time>667_00:22:33,282 --> 00:22:34,362</time>
<s>造成了这个</s>
<time>668_00:22:34,722 --> 00:22:35,802</time>
<s>咱们有好多这种</s>
<time>669_00:22:36,161 --> 00:22:37,602</time>
<s>歪打正着的这种东西</s>
<time>670_00:22:37,962 --> 00:22:40,482</time>
<s>你比如说我以前看这个</s>
<time>671_00:22:40,842 --> 00:22:43,722</time>
<s>晚清佛教的书</s>
<time>672_00:22:44,082 --> 00:22:45,882</time>
<s>帮助中国人理解两个道理</s>
<time>673_00:22:46,242 --> 00:22:47,681</time>
<s>一个是为什么</s>
<time>674_00:22:48,041 --> 00:22:49,841</time>
<s>植物会有光合作用</s>
<time>675_00:22:50,202 --> 00:22:50,922</time>
<s>为什么啊</s>
<time>676_00:22:51,282 --> 00:22:52,002</time>
<s>《诗经》里面</s>
<time>677_00:22:52,362 --> 00:22:53,802</time>
<s>和佛教里面的书都说</s>
<time>678_00:22:54,162 --> 00:22:55,602</time>
<s>其叶肺肺</s>
<time>679_00:22:55,962 --> 00:22:57,041</time>
<s>它叶子就像肺</s>
<time>680_00:22:58,122 --> 00:22:58,842</time>
<s>他就说对对对</s>
<time>681_00:22:59,562 --> 00:23:01,722</time>
<s>西洋人讲的这个光合作用</s>
<time>682_00:23:02,082 --> 00:23:03,522</time>
<s>叶绿素很对</s>
<time>683_00:23:03,882 --> 00:23:04,242</time>
<s>这是一个</s>
<time>684_00:23:04,602 --> 00:23:04,962</time>
<s>还有一个呢</s>
<time>685_00:23:05,322 --> 00:23:06,042</time>
<s>《华严经》里面讲</s>
<time>686_00:23:06,402 --> 00:23:07,842</time>
<s>风轮转地轮</s>
<time>687_00:23:08,202 --> 00:23:10,002</time>
<s>地轮转火轮</s>
<time>688_00:23:10,362 --> 00:23:11,082</time>
<s>不错啊</s>
<time>689_00:23:12,161 --> 00:23:13,602</time>
<s>果然是地球啊</s>
<time>690_00:23:13,962 --> 00:23:16,482</time>
<s>地球核心里面是有火的</s>
<time>691_00:23:17,202 --> 00:23:19,002</time>
<s>外面是有大气包着的啊</s>
<time>692_00:23:23,682 --> 00:23:25,481</time>
<s>帮助接受现代地理学天文学</s>
<time>693_00:23:26,922 --> 00:23:27,641</time>
<s>但是不是这种附会</s>
<time>694_00:23:28,002 --> 00:23:28,722</time>
<s>其实是全世界</s>
<time>695_00:23:29,082 --> 00:23:29,802</time>
<s>都有这种思维方式</s>
<time>696_00:23:30,162 --> 00:23:31,242</time>
<s>因为他要从自已熟悉的出发</s>
<time>697_00:23:31,601 --> 00:23:33,042</time>
<s>但是问题是这样啊</s>
<time>698_00:23:33,402 --> 00:23:35,562</time>
<s>咱们中国是一个有整体主义</s>
<time>699_00:23:35,922 --> 00:23:37,722</time>
<s>接受外来知识的</s>
<time>700_00:23:38,082 --> 00:23:38,442</time>
<s>是吧</s>
<time>701_00:23:38,802 --> 00:23:39,882</time>
<s>它必须得讲个道理出来</s>
<time>702_00:23:40,242 --> 00:23:41,322</time>
<s>你比如说我现在就</s>
<time>703_00:23:41,682 --> 00:23:42,042</time>
<s>最头痛的一个问题</s>
<time>704_00:23:42,401 --> 00:23:43,842</time>
<s>我现在特别想知道</s>
<time>705_00:23:44,202 --> 00:23:45,282</time>
<s>什么叫元宇宙</s>
<time>706_00:23:47,082 --> 00:23:48,522</time>
<s>你能不能给我一个（解释）</s>
<time>707_00:23:48,882 --> 00:23:49,242</time>
<s>我解释不清</s>
<time>708_00:23:49,602 --> 00:23:51,042</time>
<s>一个通俗的说法</s>
<time>709_00:23:54,642 --> 00:23:55,002</time>
<s>这是阳明洞</s>
<time>710_00:23:55,361 --> 00:23:56,442</time>
<s>他在这悟道嘛</s>
<time>711_00:23:57,522 --> 00:23:58,242</time>
<s>那咱们去悟一下</s>
<time>712_00:23:58,962 --> 00:24:00,042</time>
<s>中国古代啊</s>
<time>713_00:24:00,401 --> 00:24:00,762</time>
<s>对洞</s>
<time>714_00:24:01,122 --> 00:24:03,641</time>
<s>都有一些特别的想象</s>
<time>715_00:24:04,362 --> 00:24:05,082</time>
<s>你看那个</s>
<time>716_00:24:05,442 --> 00:24:06,161</time>
<s>《桃花源记》</s>
<time>717_00:24:06,522 --> 00:24:06,882</time>
<s>跟着流水</s>
<time>718_00:24:07,242 --> 00:24:08,322</time>
<s>不是进了一个洞嘛</s>
<time>719_00:24:08,682 --> 00:24:09,402</time>
<s>然后出了那个洞</s>
<time>720_00:24:09,762 --> 00:24:10,481</time>
<s>就是另外一个</s>
<time>721_00:24:10,842 --> 00:24:11,922</time>
<s>不知魏晋</s>
<time>722_00:24:12,282 --> 00:24:12,642</time>
<s>对</s>
<time>723_00:24:13,362 --> 00:24:14,802</time>
<s>元宇宙就是桃花源</s>
<time>724_00:24:15,882 --> 00:24:16,601</time>
<s>元宇宙就是桃花源</s>
<time>725_00:24:16,962 --> 00:24:17,682</time>
<s>等于是给每个人一个</s>
<time>726_00:24:18,042 --> 00:24:19,122</time>
<s>桃花源的入口</s>
<time>727_00:24:23,802 --> 00:24:24,522</time>
<s>哇真是</s>
<time>728_00:24:25,242 --> 00:24:26,681</time>
<s>就是这个地方</s>
<time>729_00:24:27,042 --> 00:24:27,762</time>
<s>奇境</s>
<time>730_00:24:29,562 --> 00:24:30,641</time>
<s>到底里面有多深呢</s>
<time>731_00:24:31,002 --> 00:24:31,361</time>
<s>还好</s>
<time>732_00:24:32,082 --> 00:24:32,802</time>
<s>没多深</s>
<time>733_00:24:33,522 --> 00:24:34,242</time>
<s>等于说他是</s>
<time>734_00:24:34,602 --> 00:24:36,042</time>
<s>贵州喀斯特地貌里面</s>
<time>735_00:24:36,401 --> 00:24:36,762</time>
<s>悟出了</s>
<time>736_00:24:37,122 --> 00:24:37,842</time>
<s>对</s>
<time>737_00:24:38,202 --> 00:24:40,361</time>
<s>真是别有洞天</s>
<time>738_00:24:40,722 --> 00:24:41,082</time>
<s>通到元宇宙去了</s>
<time>739_00:24:41,442 --> 00:24:42,882</time>
<s>另外一个宇宙去了</s>
<time>740_00:24:47,562 --> 00:24:49,362</time>
<s>通到游客止步</s>
<time>741_00:24:50,442 --> 00:24:51,161</time>
<s>你看此路不通</s>
<time>742_00:24:51,522 --> 00:24:51,882</time>
<s>说明这个洞</s>
<time>743_00:24:52,242 --> 00:24:53,682</time>
<s>大部分都是骗人的</s>
<time>744_00:24:56,202 --> 00:24:57,282</time>
<s>好像并没有什么特别感觉</s>
<time>745_00:24:57,642 --> 00:24:59,082</time>
<s>有什么特别感觉吗</s>
<time>746_00:24:59,442 --> 00:25:00,522</time>
<s>我的特别感觉就是说</s>
<time>747_00:25:01,242 --> 00:25:01,962</time>
<s>他那时候可能</s>
<time>748_00:25:02,322 --> 00:25:03,402</time>
<s>在这生活还可以</s>
<time>749_00:25:03,762 --> 00:25:04,842</time>
<s>还可以</s>
<time>750_00:25:08,082 --> 00:25:09,162</time>
<s>这个祠堂也还可以啊</s>
<time>751_00:25:09,522 --> 00:25:09,882</time>
<s>葛老师</s>
<time>752_00:25:10,242 --> 00:25:11,322</time>
<s>张学良在这待过吗</s>
<time>753_00:25:12,762 --> 00:25:13,842</time>
<s>这有意思了</s>
<time>754_00:25:14,202 --> 00:25:14,562</time>
<s>时间不长</s>
<time>755_00:25:17,082 --> 00:25:17,442</time>
<s>感概</s>
<time>756_00:25:18,162 --> 00:25:18,522</time>
<s>又是一个</s>
<time>757_00:25:19,242 --> 00:25:20,322</time>
<s>被流放者</s>
<time>758_00:25:22,482 --> 00:25:23,202</time>
<s>这俩人干嘛呢</s>
<time>759_00:25:23,922 --> 00:25:25,002</time>
<s>张学良赵四小姐吧</s>
<time>760_00:25:25,362 --> 00:25:26,082</time>
<s>估计是</s>
<time>761_00:25:27,522 --> 00:25:28,602</time>
<s>赵四小姐</s>
<time>762_00:25:28,962 --> 00:25:29,682</time>
<s>他被软禁在这</s>
<time>763_00:25:33,282 --> 00:25:34,722</time>
<s>我听过一段这个</s>
<time>764_00:25:35,082 --> 00:25:36,882</time>
<s>网上流传的</s>
<time>765_00:25:37,242 --> 00:25:37,962</time>
<s>张学良讲英文</s>
<time>766_00:25:38,322 --> 00:25:39,042</time>
<s>口音好重</s>
<time>767_00:25:39,402 --> 00:25:40,482</time>
<s>但是他能讲也不错啊</s>
<time>768_00:25:40,842 --> 00:25:41,922</time>
<s>他去欧洲旅行嘛</s>
<time>769_00:25:42,642 --> 00:25:43,362</time>
<s>再欧洲旅行</s>
<time>770_00:25:43,722 --> 00:25:44,802</time>
<s>我们也去过欧洲旅行</s>
<time>771_00:25:45,162 --> 00:25:46,602</time>
<s>你要我讲我也讲不见得</s>
<time>772_00:25:46,962 --> 00:25:47,682</time>
<s>讲不出多好来</s>
<time>773_00:25:57,042 --> 00:25:58,122</time>
<s>培养元气</s>
<time>774_00:26:01,362 --> 00:26:03,522</time>
<s>在中国这种思想文化传统里面</s>
<time>775_00:26:03,882 --> 00:26:05,682</time>
<s>流放占据的位置</s>
<time>776_00:26:06,042 --> 00:26:07,482</time>
<s>是不是某种意义上挺核心的</s>
<time>777_00:26:07,842 --> 00:26:08,202</time>
<s>应该是</s>
<time>778_00:26:08,562 --> 00:26:10,362</time>
<s>古代讲九刑啊</s>
<time>779_00:26:10,722 --> 00:26:12,162</time>
<s>它流刑是一个</s>
<time>780_00:26:12,522 --> 00:26:14,322</time>
<s>古代中国安土重迁</s>
<time>781_00:26:14,682 --> 00:26:16,122</time>
<s>对于流放的恐惧的传统</s>
<time>782_00:26:16,482 --> 00:26:17,202</time>
<s>是比较厉害的</s>
<time>783_00:26:17,562 --> 00:26:18,642</time>
<s>大家都认为</s>
<time>784_00:26:19,002 --> 00:26:20,082</time>
<s>把他放逐到一个边缘的</s>
<time>785_00:26:20,442 --> 00:26:21,522</time>
<s>或者不太好的地方</s>
<time>786_00:26:22,602 --> 00:26:23,322</time>
<s>也是对他一种惩罚</s>
<time>787_00:26:23,682 --> 00:26:24,762</time>
<s>你比如说王昌龄</s>
<time>788_00:26:25,122 --> 00:26:26,562</time>
<s>放逐到夜郎</s>
<time>789_00:26:26,922 --> 00:26:28,002</time>
<s>就是现在咱们这个地方</s>
<time>790_00:26:29,082 --> 00:26:30,162</time>
<s>我们这个地方啊</s>
<time>791_00:26:31,242 --> 00:26:31,962</time>
<s>是流放地</s>
<time>792_00:26:32,322 --> 00:26:32,682</time>
<s>是啊</s>
<time>793_00:26:34,122 --> 00:26:35,202</time>
<s>这是流放者之乡啊</s>
<time>794_00:26:35,922 --> 00:26:36,282</time>
<s>王阳明就是</s>
<time>795_00:26:36,642 --> 00:26:37,362</time>
<s>对也是流放啊</s>
<time>796_00:26:40,242 --> 00:26:41,322</time>
<s>但是流放再造了他啊</s>
<time>797_00:26:42,402 --> 00:26:43,122</time>
<s>你说是那么说</s>
<time>798_00:26:44,202 --> 00:26:45,642</time>
<s>我们很多搞历史的人</s>
<time>799_00:26:46,002 --> 00:26:47,082</time>
<s>最容易犯这个错误</s>
<time>800_00:26:47,442 --> 00:26:49,242</time>
<s>总是后见之明吧</s>
<time>801_00:26:50,682 --> 00:26:52,842</time>
<s>所以我觉得是事后追忆的结果</s>
<time>802_00:26:53,202 --> 00:26:54,282</time>
<s>你比如王阳明没有</s>
<time>803_00:26:54,642 --> 00:26:56,802</time>
<s>平江西宸濠之乱和</s>
<time>804_00:26:57,162 --> 00:26:58,242</time>
<s>(平定）广西大藤峡</s>
<time>805_00:26:58,602 --> 00:27:00,042</time>
<s>成为大人物</s>
<time>806_00:27:00,402 --> 00:27:01,842</time>
<s>他是不是能够后来说</s>
<time>807_00:27:02,202 --> 00:27:03,282</time>
<s>悟道的这个地方</s>
<time>808_00:27:03,642 --> 00:27:04,722</time>
<s>是他一生的转折</s>
<time>809_00:27:05,082 --> 00:27:08,322</time>
<s>造就了王阳明的这个思想学术</s>
<time>810_00:27:09,762 --> 00:27:11,202</time>
<s>我们现在有很多是倒着说的</s>
<time>811_00:27:12,642 --> 00:27:14,442</time>
<s>我如果那时候没考上大学</s>
<time>812_00:27:15,162 --> 00:27:16,602</time>
<s>在（凯里）供销社里面干着</s>
<time>813_00:27:16,962 --> 00:27:18,042</time>
<s>后来当个小科长</s>
<time>814_00:27:18,402 --> 00:27:19,482</time>
<s>好像生活也不错</s>
<time>815_00:27:19,842 --> 00:27:20,202</time>
<s>可是</s>
<time>816_00:27:20,562 --> 00:27:22,362</time>
<s>大田（下乡）那三年对我什么作用</s>
<time>817_00:27:22,722 --> 00:27:23,442</time>
<s>没什么作用</s>
<time>818_00:27:24,162 --> 00:27:24,882</time>
<s>包括咱们坐在这</s>
<time>819_00:27:25,242 --> 00:27:25,962</time>
<s>我还是想问您</s>
<time>820_00:27:26,322 --> 00:27:27,042</time>
<s>比如说对于一个</s>
<time>821_00:27:27,402 --> 00:27:28,842</time>
<s>中国思想史上的门外汉</s>
<time>822_00:27:29,202 --> 00:27:31,002</time>
<s>听到这种词什么“心与理”</s>
<time>823_00:27:31,362 --> 00:27:32,802</time>
<s>“知行合一”</s>
<time>824_00:27:33,162 --> 00:27:34,602</time>
<s>怎么把它放到历史框架中理解</s>
<time>825_00:27:34,962 --> 00:27:37,122</time>
<s>比如后来这么多的人会感兴趣</s>
<time>826_00:27:37,482 --> 00:27:38,202</time>
<s>带来这么大的轰动</s>
<time>827_00:27:38,562 --> 00:27:38,922</time>
<s>很多</s>
<time>828_00:27:39,282 --> 00:27:41,082</time>
<s>所谓的原本简单的道理</s>
<time>829_00:27:41,442 --> 00:27:42,522</time>
<s>没有那么玄乎</s>
<time>830_00:27:42,882 --> 00:27:45,042</time>
<s>后来的人都要把它讲得</s>
<time>831_00:27:45,402 --> 00:27:46,122</time>
<s>越来越深刻</s>
<time>832_00:27:46,482 --> 00:27:49,002</time>
<s>原来孔子没那么玄乎</s>
<time>833_00:27:49,362 --> 00:27:51,882</time>
<s>结果你们就把孔子解释成好像</s>
<time>834_00:27:52,242 --> 00:27:54,762</time>
<s>思想深刻得包容现代性了</s>
<time>835_00:27:55,122 --> 00:27:55,482</time>
<s>那还得了</s>
<time>836_00:27:56,562 --> 00:27:59,082</time>
<s>就是加上了很多自己的体会</s>
<time>837_00:27:59,442 --> 00:28:01,242</time>
<s>甚至有时候那种体会是不对的</s>
<time>838_00:28:01,602 --> 00:28:02,682</time>
<s>完全离题的</s>
<time>839_00:28:03,762 --> 00:28:04,842</time>
<s>最典型的一个例子</s>
<time>840_00:28:05,922 --> 00:28:06,642</time>
<s>朱熹</s>
<time>841_00:28:07,002 --> 00:28:09,162</time>
<s>朱熹接到宋孝宗的命令</s>
<time>842_00:28:09,522 --> 00:28:10,242</time>
<s>让他出山</s>
<time>843_00:28:10,602 --> 00:28:12,042</time>
<s>非常兴奋就写了一首诗</s>
<time>844_00:28:12,402 --> 00:28:14,202</time>
<s>“书册埋头无了日”</s>
<time>845_00:28:14,562 --> 00:28:16,362</time>
<s>“不如抛却去寻春”</s>
<time>846_00:28:17,442 --> 00:28:19,242</time>
<s>其实朱熹和陆九渊是好朋友</s>
<time>847_00:28:19,602 --> 00:28:21,042</time>
<s>就是陆九渊跟他讲</s>
<time>848_00:28:21,402 --> 00:28:22,122</time>
<s>这下好了</s>
<time>849_00:28:22,482 --> 00:28:24,282</time>
<s>你总算见到皇帝了</s>
<time>850_00:28:25,002 --> 00:28:26,442</time>
<s>可以直接把你的意见</s>
<time>851_00:28:27,162 --> 00:28:27,882</time>
<s>告诉皇帝了</s>
<time>852_00:28:28,242 --> 00:28:29,322</time>
<s>朱熹高兴了</s>
<time>853_00:28:29,682 --> 00:28:31,122</time>
<s>书册埋头无了日</s>
<time>854_00:28:31,482 --> 00:28:32,202</time>
<s>“不如抛却去寻春”</s>
<time>855_00:28:32,562 --> 00:28:33,642</time>
<s>我要出山了</s>
<time>856_00:28:34,362 --> 00:28:34,722</time>
<s>不就这个意思吗</s>
<time>857_00:28:35,082 --> 00:28:36,882</time>
<s>可是被他们解释成</s>
<time>858_00:28:37,602 --> 00:28:39,042</time>
<s>朱熹受陆九渊的影响</s>
<time>859_00:28:39,402 --> 00:28:40,842</time>
<s>他把客观唯心主义</s>
<time>860_00:28:41,202 --> 00:28:43,002</time>
<s>逐渐转向主观唯心主义了</s>
<time>861_00:28:43,362 --> 00:28:46,242</time>
<s>不去寻找知识寻求真理</s>
<time>862_00:28:46,602 --> 00:28:48,762</time>
<s>而是直接地去触摸世界</s>
<time>863_00:28:49,122 --> 00:28:50,202</time>
<s>就像胡塞尔说的</s>
<time>864_00:28:50,922 --> 00:28:53,082</time>
<s>我直接面对现象</s>
<time>865_00:28:54,162 --> 00:28:54,882</time>
<s>有那么玄乎吗</s>
<time>866_00:28:57,042 --> 00:28:59,202</time>
<s>我觉得现在的好多这种</s>
<time>867_00:29:00,282 --> 00:29:01,362</time>
<s>所谓理论家</s>
<time>868_00:29:02,082 --> 00:29:03,162</time>
<s>他的毛病就是想太多了</s>
<time>869_00:29:03,522 --> 00:29:05,322</time>
<s>想着想着就是不是人家的</s>
<time>870_00:29:05,682 --> 00:29:07,122</time>
<s>是你自己的了是吧</s>
<time>871_00:29:08,202 --> 00:29:10,362</time>
<s>理论绕过来绕过去</s>
<time>872_00:29:10,722 --> 00:29:12,882</time>
<s>结果反而是跟那个事实根本就</s>
<time>873_00:29:13,242 --> 00:29:14,322</time>
<s>离了八丈远</s>
<time>874_00:29:14,682 --> 00:29:16,482</time>
<s>所以历史学家不能搞文学</s>
<time>875_00:29:16,842 --> 00:29:17,202</time>
<s>你要是说</s>
<time>876_00:29:17,562 --> 00:29:19,002</time>
<s>诗歌让我们这些人一解</s>
<time>877_00:29:19,722 --> 00:29:20,082</time>
<s>就解完了</s>
<time>878_00:29:21,162 --> 00:29:21,882</time>
<s>解得一塌糊涂</s>
<time>879_00:29:22,242 --> 00:29:24,402</time>
<s>就有点像拿X光机看美人</s>
<time>880_00:29:24,762 --> 00:29:26,922</time>
<s>那点暖味朦胧都没了</s>
