<time>1315_00:44:38,802 --> 00:44:40,602</time>
<s>如果要真的去实践这种</s>
<time>1316_00:44:41,322 --> 00:44:42,402</time>
<s>历史研究的方法</s>
<time>1317_00:44:42,762 --> 00:44:44,562</time>
<s>语言是个很重要的事情</s>
<time>1318_00:44:44,922 --> 00:44:45,642</time>
<s>可是我们年纪大了</s>
<time>1319_00:44:46,002 --> 00:44:47,082</time>
<s>我们就觉得学不了</s>
<time>1320_00:44:48,162 --> 00:44:48,521</time>
<s>第二个呢</s>
<time>1321_00:44:48,882 --> 00:44:49,962</time>
<s>我们这一代人是</s>
<time>1322_00:44:50,322 --> 00:44:51,762</time>
<s>太多地看了中国的东西</s>
<time>1323_00:44:52,122 --> 00:44:52,482</time>
<s>看得太多</s>
<time>1324_00:44:52,842 --> 00:44:53,562</time>
<s>所以什么东西都</s>
<time>1325_00:44:53,922 --> 00:44:54,642</time>
<s>习惯地用</s>
<time>1326_00:44:55,002 --> 00:44:55,722</time>
<s>中国的逻辑</s>
<time>1327_00:44:56,082 --> 00:44:56,802</time>
<s>中国的立场去看</s>
<time>1328_00:44:57,162 --> 00:44:57,522</time>
<s>怎么样</s>
<time>1329_00:44:57,882 --> 00:44:59,682</time>
<s>跳出中国这个</s>
<time>1330_00:45:00,402 --> 00:45:02,562</time>
<s>学会用对方的眼睛</s>
<time>1331_00:45:02,922 --> 00:45:03,282</time>
<s>去</s>
<time>1332_00:45:03,642 --> 00:45:05,082</time>
<s>从反过来看的</s>
<time>1333_00:45:05,442 --> 00:45:05,802</time>
<s>中国</s>
<time>1334_00:45:06,161 --> 00:45:08,322</time>
<s>我现在越来越觉得</s>
<time>1335_00:45:08,681 --> 00:45:10,842</time>
<s>就中国谈中国谈不了</s>
<time>1336_00:45:11,562 --> 00:45:12,642</time>
<s>它很多的事情</s>
<time>1337_00:45:13,002 --> 00:45:14,082</time>
<s>都跟周边的</s>
<time>1338_00:45:14,802 --> 00:45:15,882</time>
<s>各种的历史事件</s>
<time>1339_00:45:16,602 --> 00:45:18,402</time>
<s>有一种所谓的蝴蝶效应</s>
<time>1340_00:45:18,762 --> 00:45:20,922</time>
<s>它必须放在更大的背景</s>
<time>1341_00:45:21,281 --> 00:45:22,002</time>
<s>里面来谈</s>
<time>1342_00:45:22,362 --> 00:45:23,082</time>
<s>当然我们需要找</s>
<time>1343_00:45:23,442 --> 00:45:24,522</time>
<s>史料来证明</s>
<time>1344_00:45:24,882 --> 00:45:25,962</time>
<s>你比如说我们举个例子</s>
<time>1345_00:45:26,682 --> 00:45:27,042</time>
<s>糖</s>
<time>1346_00:45:27,762 --> 00:45:29,922</time>
<s>中国确实给糖的加工技术</s>
<time>1347_00:45:31,002 --> 00:45:31,722</time>
<s>增加了很多东西</s>
<time>1348_00:45:32,082 --> 00:45:33,162</time>
<s>但是它并没有</s>
<time>1349_00:45:33,522 --> 00:45:33,882</time>
<s>根本地改变</s>
<time>1350_00:45:34,241 --> 00:45:35,682</time>
<s>生活的一个模式式的东西</s>
<time>1351_00:45:36,762 --> 00:45:37,122</time>
<s>它只是调味料</s>
<time>1352_00:45:37,482 --> 00:45:37,842</time>
<s>但是呢</s>
<time>1353_00:45:40,362 --> 00:45:42,882</time>
<s>因为有西印度群岛的糖</s>
<time>1354_00:45:43,962 --> 00:45:45,042</time>
<s>使得工人有了</s>
<time>1355_00:45:45,402 --> 00:45:46,842</time>
<s>相当多的廉价的</s>
<time>1356_00:45:47,202 --> 00:45:47,562</time>
<s>热量热能</s>
<time>1357_00:45:47,922 --> 00:45:48,282</time>
<s>对</s>
<time>1358_00:45:48,642 --> 00:45:50,082</time>
<s>糖的价格迅速下降</s>
<time>1359_00:45:50,442 --> 00:45:51,521</time>
<s>刺激了工业革命</s>
<time>1360_00:45:51,882 --> 00:45:52,602</time>
<s>这个是一个大的变化</s>
<time>1361_00:45:53,682 --> 00:45:54,762</time>
<s>如果仅仅围绕着中国去讲</s>
<time>1362_00:45:55,122 --> 00:45:56,201</time>
<s>可能就没有</s>
<time>1363_00:45:56,562 --> 00:45:57,642</time>
<s>那比如说您的学生</s>
<time>1364_00:45:58,362 --> 00:45:59,442</time>
<s>复旦更年轻的学生</s>
<time>1365_00:45:59,802 --> 00:46:00,522</time>
<s>他们会对理解这种</s>
<time>1366_00:46:00,882 --> 00:46:02,322</time>
<s>陌生世界充满好奇吗</s>
<time>1367_00:46:02,681 --> 00:46:04,121</time>
<s>应该也有</s>
<time>1368_00:46:04,482 --> 00:46:05,562</time>
<s>但是</s>
<time>1369_00:46:05,922 --> 00:46:06,641</time>
<s>他们从高中以来就</s>
<time>1370_00:46:07,002 --> 00:46:09,162</time>
<s>受到传统的历史教育</s>
<time>1371_00:46:09,522 --> 00:46:10,962</time>
<s>他们有形成了一套</s>
<time>1372_00:46:11,322 --> 00:46:13,122</time>
<s>非常固定的历史观念</s>
<time>1373_00:46:14,202 --> 00:46:14,922</time>
<s>所以我们有一句话</s>
<time>1374_00:46:15,282 --> 00:46:16,002</time>
<s>说得很苛刻</s>
<time>1375_00:46:16,722 --> 00:46:17,082</time>
<s>我们说</s>
<time>1376_00:46:17,442 --> 00:46:18,522</time>
<s>跟大学生讲历史</s>
<time>1377_00:46:19,962 --> 00:46:21,762</time>
<s>一个非常艰难的事情就是跟</s>
<time>1378_00:46:22,122 --> 00:46:23,922</time>
<s>大学生脑袋里面的历史搏斗</s>
<time>1379_00:46:25,002 --> 00:46:26,802</time>
<s>你比如说我们最近看到一些</s>
<time>1380_00:46:27,161 --> 00:46:27,522</time>
<s>现象就是说</s>
<time>1381_00:46:27,882 --> 00:46:28,602</time>
<s>外国</s>
<time>1382_00:46:29,322 --> 00:46:30,402</time>
<s>招中国的留学生</s>
<time>1383_00:46:30,762 --> 00:46:31,482</time>
<s>做中国学</s>
<time>1384_00:46:31,842 --> 00:46:32,202</time>
<s>中国历史</s>
<time>1385_00:46:32,562 --> 00:46:32,922</time>
<s>中国文学</s>
<time>1386_00:46:33,642 --> 00:46:34,362</time>
<s>他们不愿意招</s>
<time>1387_00:46:35,442 --> 00:46:36,522</time>
<s>我们学中文学历史的人</s>
<time>1388_00:46:37,602 --> 00:46:39,042</time>
<s>他们愿意招学外语的人</s>
<time>1389_00:46:39,762 --> 00:46:40,482</time>
<s>你学中文</s>
<time>1390_00:46:40,842 --> 00:46:41,201</time>
<s>学历史的人</s>
<time>1391_00:46:41,562 --> 00:46:42,282</time>
<s>脑子里面已经有一套</s>
<time>1392_00:46:42,642 --> 00:46:43,362</time>
<s>成见太多</s>
<time>1393_00:46:43,721 --> 00:46:44,082</time>
<s>成见</s>
<time>1394_00:46:44,442 --> 00:46:44,802</time>
<s>就是说</s>
<time>1395_00:46:45,162 --> 00:46:45,522</time>
<s>在中国呢</s>
<time>1396_00:46:46,242 --> 00:46:48,042</time>
<s>大一统的观念是非常强的</s>
<time>1397_00:46:48,402 --> 00:46:50,201</time>
<s>而且认为自古以来</s>
<time>1398_00:46:52,002 --> 00:46:53,082</time>
<s>就是一个大一统的中国</s>
<time>1399_00:46:53,442 --> 00:46:55,241</time>
<s>他很难融入对方的文化里面</s>
<time>1400_00:46:55,602 --> 00:46:56,322</time>
<s>但是问题是</s>
<time>1401_00:46:56,682 --> 00:46:58,122</time>
<s>我们不太赞成的就是说</s>
<time>1402_00:46:58,842 --> 00:46:59,562</time>
<s>你怎么能把</s>
<time>1403_00:46:59,922 --> 00:47:00,642</time>
<s>中国的历史知识</s>
<time>1404_00:47:01,002 --> 00:47:01,722</time>
<s>都给清除出去</s>
<time>1405_00:47:02,802 --> 00:47:04,241</time>
<s>也许它有不对的地方</s>
<time>1406_00:47:04,602 --> 00:47:04,962</time>
<s>但是问题是</s>
<time>1407_00:47:06,042 --> 00:47:07,122</time>
<s>我们的历史知识是不是带来了</s>
<time>1408_00:47:07,842 --> 00:47:08,562</time>
<s>太多的成见</s>
<time>1409_00:47:09,281 --> 00:47:09,642</time>
<s>就这个</s>
<time>1410_00:47:10,362 --> 00:47:10,722</time>
<s>确切来讲</s>
<time>1411_00:47:11,082 --> 00:47:11,802</time>
<s>这个大一统神话</s>
<time>1412_00:47:12,162 --> 00:47:13,241</time>
<s>到底什么时候</s>
<time>1413_00:47:13,602 --> 00:47:14,681</time>
<s>真正就确立起来的呀</s>
<time>1414_00:47:15,042 --> 00:47:15,401</time>
<s>一个呢</s>
<time>1415_00:47:15,762 --> 00:47:16,122</time>
<s>《史记》</s>
<time>1416_00:47:17,202 --> 00:47:18,642</time>
<s>《史记》司马迁</s>
<time>1417_00:47:19,002 --> 00:47:20,442</time>
<s>有一个最重要的作用</s>
<time>1418_00:47:20,802 --> 00:47:22,962</time>
<s>就是把所有的非汉族群</s>
<time>1419_00:47:23,682 --> 00:47:25,482</time>
<s>都说成是五帝的子孙</s>
<time>1420_00:47:26,562 --> 00:47:27,642</time>
<s>其先出于黄帝</s>
<time>1421_00:47:28,001 --> 00:47:29,442</time>
<s>其先出于颛项</s>
<time>1422_00:47:29,802 --> 00:47:31,962</time>
<s>其先出于什么什么</s>
<time>1423_00:47:32,322 --> 00:47:33,762</time>
<s>所以后来论证</s>
<time>1424_00:47:34,122 --> 00:47:35,562</time>
<s>我们是一个共同的</s>
<time>1425_00:47:35,922 --> 00:47:37,362</time>
<s>中华民族</s>
<time>1426_00:47:37,722 --> 00:47:38,442</time>
<s>就合法了</s>
<time>1427_00:47:39,162 --> 00:47:39,882</time>
<s>另外一个呢</s>
<time>1428_00:47:40,962 --> 00:47:41,681</time>
<s>抗战激起来的</s>
<time>1429_00:47:42,042 --> 00:47:43,842</time>
<s>民族主义和爱国主义</s>
<time>1430_00:47:44,201 --> 00:47:44,922</time>
<s>使得中国</s>
<time>1431_00:47:45,282 --> 00:47:46,362</time>
<s>无论如何都要</s>
<time>1432_00:47:46,722 --> 00:47:47,442</time>
<s>捍卫大一统</s>
<time>1433_00:47:48,522 --> 00:47:49,241</time>
<s>这个是一个悠久的传统</s>
<time>1434_00:47:49,602 --> 00:47:50,682</time>
<s>和现实的需要</s>
<time>1435_00:47:51,042 --> 00:47:51,402</time>
<s>结合在一起</s>
<time>1436_00:47:52,482 --> 00:47:52,841</time>
<s>等于是</s>
<time>1437_00:47:53,201 --> 00:47:55,002</time>
<s>司马迁那算元叙事了</s>
<time>1438_00:47:55,722 --> 00:47:56,082</time>
<s>最早的</s>
<time>1439_00:47:56,442 --> 00:47:57,522</time>
<s>其实我们现在看</s>
<time>1440_00:47:57,882 --> 00:47:58,602</time>
<s>先秦时代</s>
<time>1441_00:48:00,042 --> 00:48:01,122</time>
<s>不同的族群</s>
<time>1442_00:48:02,202 --> 00:48:03,282</time>
<s>其实是有不同的</s>
<time>1443_00:48:03,642 --> 00:48:04,002</time>
<s>来源的</s>
<time>1444_00:48:04,722 --> 00:48:06,522</time>
<s>我为什么要去再写一本</s>
<time>1445_00:48:06,882 --> 00:48:07,962</time>
<s>《历史中国的内与外》</s>
<time>1446_00:48:09,042 --> 00:48:09,402</time>
<s>就是说</s>
<time>1447_00:48:09,762 --> 00:48:11,202</time>
<s>核心区域虽然很稳定</s>
<time>1448_00:48:12,281 --> 00:48:13,002</time>
<s>但是周边其实是</s>
<time>1449_00:48:13,722 --> 00:48:14,082</time>
<s>游移的</s>
<time>1450_00:48:15,162 --> 00:48:16,602</time>
<s>你如果把那些地方</s>
<time>1451_00:48:16,962 --> 00:48:19,122</time>
<s>说成是自古以来就是中国</s>
<time>1452_00:48:19,481 --> 00:48:21,642</time>
<s>其实是对那些地方不尊重</s>
<time>1453_00:48:22,002 --> 00:48:23,082</time>
<s>特别是这次我</s>
<time>1454_00:48:23,442 --> 00:48:23,802</time>
<s>做这个</s>
<time>1455_00:48:24,162 --> 00:48:25,602</time>
<s>《从中国出发的全球史》</s>
<time>1456_00:48:27,042 --> 00:48:27,761</time>
<s>光看中国的（文献）</s>
<time>1457_00:48:28,122 --> 00:48:28,482</time>
<s>不行啊</s>
<time>1458_00:48:28,841 --> 00:48:29,562</time>
<s>所以我看到您写的这些东西</s>
<time>1459_00:48:29,922 --> 00:48:30,282</time>
<s>我就很兴奋</s>
<time>1460_00:48:30,641 --> 00:48:31,002</time>
<s>就是一个中国的</s>
<time>1461_00:48:31,362 --> 00:48:32,442</time>
<s>我们的视角出来</s>
<time>1462_00:48:32,802 --> 00:48:33,522</time>
<s>但又不是偏狭的</s>
<time>1463_00:48:33,882 --> 00:48:34,962</time>
<s>又是一个尽量的</s>
<time>1464_00:48:35,322 --> 00:48:35,682</time>
<s>去理解一个多样的</s>
<time>1465_00:48:36,042 --> 00:48:36,762</time>
<s>世界的一种视角</s>
<time>1466_00:48:37,842 --> 00:48:38,562</time>
<s>希望是这样</s>
<time>1467_00:48:38,922 --> 00:48:40,722</time>
<s>其实我们现在也有这个毛病</s>
<time>1468_00:48:41,802 --> 00:48:43,962</time>
<s>我当年来日本</s>
<time>1469_00:48:44,322 --> 00:48:45,042</time>
<s>和去美国</s>
<time>1470_00:48:45,762 --> 00:48:46,842</time>
<s>好像我们接触的还是</s>
<time>1471_00:48:47,202 --> 00:48:48,282</time>
<s>中国史学家比较多</s>
<time>1472_00:48:48,642 --> 00:48:49,362</time>
<s>可是这几年</s>
<time>1473_00:48:49,722 --> 00:48:51,521</time>
<s>我们才开始有意识地说</s>
<time>1474_00:48:51,882 --> 00:48:54,042</time>
<s>在日本跟做日本史的人</s>
<time>1475_00:48:54,402 --> 00:48:54,762</time>
<s>接触</s>
<time>1476_00:48:55,122 --> 00:48:56,202</time>
<s>到美国去跟做美国史</s>
<time>1477_00:48:56,562 --> 00:48:58,002</time>
<s>或者做全球史的人接触</s>
<time>1478_00:48:59,442 --> 00:49:00,522</time>
<s>就逼着我们要去学</s>
<time>1479_00:49:00,882 --> 00:49:01,962</time>
<s>很多很多新东西</s>
<time>1480_00:49:02,321 --> 00:49:03,042</time>
<s>我们以前是</s>
<time>1481_00:49:03,761 --> 00:49:04,121</time>
<s>喜欢</s>
<time>1482_00:49:04,842 --> 00:49:06,282</time>
<s>熟悉的东西的叠加</s>
<time>1483_00:49:07,722 --> 00:49:08,082</time>
<s>哪怕没有</s>
<time>1484_00:49:08,802 --> 00:49:09,522</time>
<s>质的变化</s>
<time>1485_00:49:10,602 --> 00:49:11,321</time>
<s>加上去加上去</s>
<time>1486_00:49:12,762 --> 00:49:13,122</time>
<s>这样不行的</s>
<time>1487_00:49:14,201 --> 00:49:15,282</time>
<s>一定要有一个</s>
<time>1488_00:49:15,642 --> 00:49:16,362</time>
<s>全球的眼光</s>
<time>1489_00:49:17,082 --> 00:49:17,802</time>
<s>和大家都能</s>
<time>1490_00:49:18,162 --> 00:49:20,322</time>
<s>共同接受的价值观</s>
<time>1491_00:49:20,682 --> 00:49:22,482</time>
<s>和历史认识的方式</s>
<time>1492_00:49:32,202 --> 00:49:32,562</time>
<s>您万一没走</s>
<time>1493_00:49:32,922 --> 00:49:33,642</time>
<s>不就留在这了吗</s>
<time>1494_00:49:34,362 --> 00:49:35,082</time>
<s>也还留不到这吧</s>
<time>1495_00:49:36,522 --> 00:49:38,322</time>
<s>我有可能就在那个虎庄那</s>
<time>1496_00:49:38,682 --> 00:49:39,402</time>
<s>去看小分销店</s>
<time>1497_00:49:41,562 --> 00:49:42,281</time>
<s>这个是</s>
<time>1498_00:49:42,642 --> 00:49:43,362</time>
<s>往山上走的是吧</s>
<time>1499_00:49:43,722 --> 00:49:44,442</time>
<s>这个是中心</s>
<time>1500_00:49:45,882 --> 00:49:46,242</time>
<s>这个是镇中心</s>
<time>1501_00:49:46,962 --> 00:49:48,402</time>
<s>这个到这我就知道了</s>
<time>1502_00:49:50,202 --> 00:49:51,282</time>
<s>走边上走边上</s>
<time>1503_00:49:53,442 --> 00:49:54,882</time>
<s>这个相约童城</s>
<time>1504_00:49:55,242 --> 00:49:57,762</time>
<s>这就是以前供销社的饭店</s>
<time>1505_00:49:58,482 --> 00:49:59,562</time>
<s>帮厨就在这</s>
<time>1506_00:50:01,002 --> 00:50:02,082</time>
<s>但是房子已经不一样了</s>
<time>1507_00:50:02,442 --> 00:50:03,162</time>
<s>我把这个照一个相</s>
<time>1508_00:50:03,522 --> 00:50:04,242</time>
<s>我妹妹她就认得</s>
<time>1509_00:50:04,602 --> 00:50:04,962</time>
<s>您发给她吧</s>
<time>1510_00:50:06,402 --> 00:50:07,482</time>
<s>过去就是两个</s>
<time>1511_00:50:07,842 --> 00:50:08,922</time>
<s>大概把中国电信</s>
<time>1512_00:50:09,282 --> 00:50:10,002</time>
<s>和这个相约童城</s>
<time>1513_00:50:10,362 --> 00:50:11,082</time>
<s>都算在一起</s>
<time>1514_00:50:11,442 --> 00:50:12,522</time>
<s>原来就那么大一个</s>
<time>1515_00:50:13,962 --> 00:50:14,682</time>
<s>大概摆个</s>
<time>1516_00:50:15,762 --> 00:50:16,842</time>
<s>六个桌子吧</s>
<time>1517_00:50:17,202 --> 00:50:17,562</time>
<s>然后你在里面切丝</s>
<time>1518_00:50:18,282 --> 00:50:19,362</time>
<s>在这后面</s>
<time>1519_00:50:23,682 --> 00:50:24,042</time>
<s>葛老师我们走吧</s>
<time>1520_00:50:24,762 --> 00:50:25,842</time>
<s>吃回锅肉</s>
<time>1521_00:50:27,642 --> 00:50:28,362</time>
<s>本镇回锅肉</s>
<time>1522_00:50:28,722 --> 00:50:29,082</time>
<s>走看看</s>
<time>1523_00:50:30,522 --> 00:50:30,882</time>
<s>牌坊街</s>
<time>1524_00:50:34,122 --> 00:50:35,202</time>
<s>我怎么觉得看着就挺好吃的</s>
<time>1525_00:50:36,282 --> 00:50:37,002</time>
<s>脆皮猪脚</s>
<time>1526_00:50:38,442 --> 00:50:39,522</time>
<s>现杀小黄牛</s>
<time>1527_00:50:44,202 --> 00:50:44,922</time>
<s>先坐那烤火</s>
<time>1528_00:50:46,002 --> 00:50:46,362</time>
<s>烤火</s>
<time>1529_00:50:46,722 --> 00:50:47,802</time>
<s>贵州就这么过冬天</s>
<time>1530_00:50:54,282 --> 00:50:55,002</time>
<s>这种炉子挺好的</s>
<time>1531_00:50:56,442 --> 00:50:57,162</time>
<s>家里面有一个挺好的</s>
<time>1532_00:51:02,922 --> 00:51:03,642</time>
<s>看您那回忆</s>
<time>1533_00:51:04,002 --> 00:51:05,082</time>
<s>葛家在那个</s>
<time>1534_00:51:05,442 --> 00:51:06,882</time>
<s>福建福州过得很好啊</s>
<time>1535_00:51:07,242 --> 00:51:07,602</time>
<s>祖上阔过</s>
<time>1536_00:51:08,682 --> 00:51:10,122</time>
<s>现在我回不了我家了</s>
<time>1537_00:51:10,482 --> 00:51:11,562</time>
<s>因为我家收门票</s>
<time>1538_00:51:11,922 --> 00:51:12,642</time>
<s>十块钱</s>
<time>1539_00:51:14,442 --> 00:51:15,162</time>
<s>我爷爷就是</s>
<time>1540_00:51:15,522 --> 00:51:16,962</time>
<s>中国最早的</s>
<time>1541_00:51:17,322 --> 00:51:18,402</time>
<s>海军陆战队的</s>
<time>1542_00:51:18,762 --> 00:51:19,842</time>
<s>副旅长</s>
<time>1543_00:51:20,202 --> 00:51:20,562</time>
<s>所以那个时候就</s>
<time>1544_00:51:21,282 --> 00:51:22,002</time>
<s>比较发财了</s>
<time>1545_00:51:22,362 --> 00:51:22,722</time>
<s>所以您父亲小时候</s>
<time>1546_00:51:23,082 --> 00:51:24,162</time>
<s>是个公子哥的生活是吧</s>
<time>1547_00:51:24,522 --> 00:51:25,242</time>
<s>绝对公子哥</s>
<time>1548_00:51:25,602 --> 00:51:27,402</time>
<s>我一直到后来我见了他</s>
<time>1549_00:51:28,482 --> 00:51:28,842</time>
<s>我都老说他</s>
<time>1550_00:51:29,562 --> 00:51:31,002</time>
<s>你算了吧</s>
<time>1551_00:51:31,362 --> 00:51:32,082</time>
<s>你从来没吃过苦</s>
<time>1552_00:51:35,322 --> 00:51:35,682</time>
<s>很得意啊</s>
<time>1553_00:51:36,402 --> 00:51:37,482</time>
<s>暨南大学抗战的时候</s>
<time>1554_00:51:37,842 --> 00:51:39,282</time>
<s>退到武夷山里面</s>
<time>1555_00:51:40,002 --> 00:51:40,362</time>
<s>他说我</s>
<time>1556_00:51:40,722 --> 00:51:42,882</time>
<s>腰上捆一圈</s>
<time>1557_00:51:44,682 --> 00:51:45,762</time>
<s>一饿了就</s>
<time>1558_00:51:46,122 --> 00:51:47,202</time>
<s>就从里面摸出一块来</s>
<time>1559_00:51:49,362 --> 00:51:51,522</time>
<s>我父亲是一心想革命</s>
<time>1560_00:51:51,882 --> 00:51:52,962</time>
<s>一心想进步</s>
<time>1561_00:51:53,322 --> 00:51:54,402</time>
<s>就是不要他</s>
<time>1562_00:51:55,122 --> 00:51:56,922</time>
<s>从来就说话就是</s>
<time>1563_00:51:57,282 --> 00:51:57,642</time>
<s>乱说</s>
<time>1564_00:51:58,722 --> 00:52:00,162</time>
<s>结果就老是犯错误</s>
<time>1565_00:52:00,522 --> 00:52:01,602</time>
<s>就还是公子哥的劲嘛</s>
<time>1566_00:52:01,962 --> 00:52:02,322</time>
<s>对</s>
<time>1567_00:52:02,682 --> 00:52:03,762</time>
<s>他参加革命那么早</s>
<time>1568_00:52:06,282 --> 00:52:07,722</time>
<s>到最后他也没混到个</s>
<time>1569_00:52:08,082 --> 00:52:08,442</time>
<s>什么官儿</s>
<time>1570_00:52:11,682 --> 00:52:12,042</time>
<s>你当时对</s>
<time>1571_00:52:12,402 --> 00:52:13,482</time>
<s>刚来凯里县城什么感觉</s>
<time>1572_00:52:14,922 --> 00:52:15,642</time>
<s>因为我们太小</s>
<time>1573_00:52:16,002 --> 00:52:17,082</time>
<s>我十岁的时候就来了</s>
<time>1574_00:52:17,442 --> 00:52:18,162</time>
<s>我父母亲是很</s>
<time>1575_00:52:18,522 --> 00:52:19,242</time>
<s>意识非常清楚</s>
<time>1576_00:52:19,602 --> 00:52:19,962</time>
<s>就是说</s>
<time>1577_00:52:20,322 --> 00:52:20,682</time>
<s>很糟糕</s>
<time>1578_00:52:21,402 --> 00:52:22,842</time>
<s>肯定就是说</s>
<time>1579_00:52:23,202 --> 00:52:23,562</time>
<s>会</s>
<time>1580_00:52:23,922 --> 00:52:24,642</time>
<s>非常艰难</s>
<time>1581_00:52:25,722 --> 00:52:26,802</time>
<s>因为我们刚来的时候</s>
<time>1582_00:52:27,162 --> 00:52:29,322</time>
<s>正是贵州最苦的时候</s>
<time>1583_00:52:30,402 --> 00:52:32,562</time>
<s>那时候饿得简直是</s>
<time>1584_00:52:32,922 --> 00:52:33,642</time>
<s>疯掉了</s>
<time>1585_00:52:34,362 --> 00:52:36,522</time>
<s>我记得那时候我到食堂去</s>
<time>1586_00:52:36,882 --> 00:52:38,682</time>
<s>把那个蒸的罐罐饭</s>
<time>1587_00:52:39,402 --> 00:52:40,122</time>
<s>端回家来</s>
<time>1588_00:52:41,562 --> 00:52:43,002</time>
<s>过街的时候要装作是没有饭</s>
<time>1589_00:52:43,362 --> 00:52:44,442</time>
<s>遮得严严实实的</s>
<time>1590_00:52:44,802 --> 00:52:45,162</time>
<s>不能露出来</s>
<time>1591_00:52:45,522 --> 00:52:46,602</time>
<s>露出来就被抢</s>
<time>1592_00:52:48,042 --> 00:52:49,482</time>
<s>但我父亲是个老</s>
<time>1593_00:52:49,842 --> 00:52:52,002</time>
<s>特别会吃</s>
<time>1594_00:52:52,362 --> 00:52:53,802</time>
<s>宁可把东西都变卖了</s>
<time>1595_00:52:54,882 --> 00:52:57,042</time>
<s>也要保证他能吃</s>
<time>1596_00:52:57,402 --> 00:52:57,762</time>
<s>有一件</s>
<time>1597_00:52:58,842 --> 00:52:59,562</time>
<s>我奶奶传给我的</s>
<time>1598_00:52:59,922 --> 00:53:01,002</time>
<s>我们家里面的一个</s>
<time>1599_00:53:01,362 --> 00:53:01,722</time>
<s>宝贝</s>
<time>1600_00:53:02,082 --> 00:53:03,162</time>
<s>就那个核舟</s>
<time>1601_00:53:03,882 --> 00:53:06,042</time>
<s>以前语文课本里面有一个叫</s>
<time>1602_00:53:06,402 --> 00:53:07,482</time>
<s>《核舟记》</s>
<time>1603_00:53:07,842 --> 00:53:08,922</time>
<s>就是写这个</s>
<time>1604_00:53:09,282 --> 00:53:10,362</time>
<s>那个船就这么大</s>
<time>1605_00:53:11,442 --> 00:53:12,882</time>
<s>八扇窗户</s>
<time>1606_00:53:13,242 --> 00:53:14,322</time>
<s>打开还可以看见人</s>
<time>1607_00:53:15,402 --> 00:53:17,202</time>
<s>后来说怎么不见了呢</s>
<time>1608_00:53:19,002 --> 00:53:19,722</time>
<s>后来我才知道</s>
<time>1609_00:53:20,442 --> 00:53:20,802</time>
<s>卖了</s>
<time>1610_00:53:22,242 --> 00:53:23,682</time>
<s>换了两瓶猪油</s>
<time>1611_00:53:25,122 --> 00:53:26,202</time>
<s>就两瓶猪油</s>
<time>1612_00:53:28,362 --> 00:53:29,082</time>
<s>后来呢</s>
<time>1613_00:53:29,802 --> 00:53:31,602</time>
<s>全靠我母亲家</s>
<time>1614_00:53:31,962 --> 00:53:33,042</time>
<s>从上海</s>
<time>1615_00:53:33,402 --> 00:53:34,482</time>
<s>从金华寄</s>
<time>1616_00:53:34,842 --> 00:53:35,922</time>
<s>寄东西来</s>
<time>1617_00:53:36,642 --> 00:53:37,722</time>
<s>但是问题是他</s>
<time>1618_00:53:38,082 --> 00:53:39,162</time>
<s>总是犯错误</s>
<time>1619_00:53:39,882 --> 00:53:40,602</time>
<s>我母亲呢</s>
<time>1620_00:53:40,962 --> 00:53:42,402</time>
<s>又是资本家的女儿</s>
<time>1621_00:53:42,762 --> 00:53:44,202</time>
<s>文革的时候就坐牛棚</s>
<time>1622_00:53:44,562 --> 00:53:46,362</time>
<s>因此我们三个孩子</s>
<time>1623_00:53:46,722 --> 00:53:48,162</time>
<s>都得自己去想办法</s>
<time>1624_00:53:49,962 --> 00:53:51,402</time>
<s>我去河边筛沙</s>
<time>1625_00:53:51,762 --> 00:53:53,562</time>
<s>但是我们没有觉得</s>
<time>1626_00:53:53,922 --> 00:53:55,362</time>
<s>特别特别苦</s>
<time>1627_00:53:56,082 --> 00:53:57,522</time>
<s>但真正苦是</s>
<time>1628_00:53:57,882 --> 00:53:58,962</time>
<s>确实是下乡</s>
<time>1629_00:53:59,322 --> 00:54:01,482</time>
<s>在大田这三年</s>
<time>1630_00:54:01,842 --> 00:54:02,202</time>
<s>是最惨的</s>
<time>1631_00:54:05,082 --> 00:54:06,522</time>
<s>这个是什么呀</s>
<time>1632_00:54:06,882 --> 00:54:07,602</time>
<s>这个是炒菜</s>
<time>1633_00:54:09,402 --> 00:54:10,122</time>
<s>炒菜</s>
<time>1634_00:54:10,482 --> 00:54:10,842</time>
<s>找俩盘子</s>
<time>1635_00:54:20,202 --> 00:54:22,002</time>
<s>都是半个世纪以前的事了</s>
<time>1636_00:54:22,362 --> 00:54:22,722</time>
<s>来您用这个</s>
<time>1637_00:54:29,562 --> 00:54:29,922</time>
<s>那时候</s>
<time>1638_00:54:30,282 --> 00:54:30,642</time>
<s>比如说</s>
<time>1639_00:54:31,362 --> 00:54:32,442</time>
<s>生活最无望的时候</s>
<time>1640_00:54:32,802 --> 00:54:33,162</time>
<s>最绝望的时候</s>
<time>1641_00:54:33,522 --> 00:54:34,242</time>
<s>用什么安慰自己呢</s>
<time>1642_00:54:34,962 --> 00:54:35,322</time>
<s>没什么可安慰的</s>
<time>1643_00:54:35,682 --> 00:54:37,122</time>
<s>就是看书呗</s>
<time>1644_00:54:37,482 --> 00:54:38,202</time>
<s>就只能看看书</s>
<time>1645_00:54:39,642 --> 00:54:41,442</time>
<s>就躲到另一个时空里面去</s>
<time>1646_00:54:42,522 --> 00:54:43,602</time>
<s>那没办法</s>
<time>1647_00:54:43,962 --> 00:54:45,042</time>
<s>但是呢后来</s>
<time>1648_00:54:45,402 --> 00:54:46,482</time>
<s>工厂的时候比较有趣</s>
<time>1649_00:54:47,202 --> 00:54:48,282</time>
<s>召学“马列”</s>
<time>1650_00:54:48,642 --> 00:54:49,722</time>
<s>那时候还真学进去了</s>
<time>1651_00:54:50,082 --> 00:54:51,522</time>
<s>写了好几大本笔记</s>
<time>1652_00:54:51,882 --> 00:54:52,602</time>
<s>到了1975年</s>
<time>1653_00:54:52,962 --> 00:54:53,682</time>
<s>又批《水浒传》</s>
<time>1654_00:54:54,042 --> 00:54:55,482</time>
<s>可是我水浒很熟啊</s>
<time>1655_00:54:55,842 --> 00:54:58,362</time>
<s>从呼保义宋江一直数下来</s>
<time>1656_00:54:58,722 --> 00:55:00,882</time>
<s>智多星吴用</s>
<time>1657_00:55:01,242 --> 00:55:02,322</time>
<s>这厂长一看</s>
<time>1658_00:55:02,682 --> 00:55:03,762</time>
<s>行</s>
<time>1659_00:55:04,122 --> 00:55:04,482</time>
<s>你来讲水浒</s>
<time>1660_00:55:04,842 --> 00:55:05,922</time>
<s>可以不上班</s>
<time>1661_00:55:06,642 --> 00:55:08,082</time>
<s>知识还可以改变命运</s>
<time>1662_00:55:08,802 --> 00:55:10,962</time>
<s>那比如说您回忆起那个时候</s>
<time>1663_00:55:11,322 --> 00:55:12,402</time>
<s>那些苦难的东西呢</s>
<time>1664_00:55:12,762 --> 00:55:13,482</time>
<s>你怎么应对呢</s>
<time>1665_00:55:13,842 --> 00:55:15,642</time>
<s>尽可能不要去想</s>
<time>1666_00:55:16,002 --> 00:55:17,442</time>
<s>你看我要老想</s>
<time>1667_00:55:17,802 --> 00:55:19,242</time>
<s>挖煤那会</s>
<time>1668_00:55:19,602 --> 00:55:21,042</time>
<s>那会挖煤是可能是最惨的</s>
<time>1669_00:55:21,402 --> 00:55:23,562</time>
<s>你要全身脱得精光</s>
<time>1670_00:55:23,922 --> 00:55:25,002</time>
<s>只穿一个裤头</s>
<time>1671_00:55:25,362 --> 00:55:27,162</time>
<s>爬二三十米</s>
<time>1672_00:55:27,522 --> 00:55:28,602</time>
<s>到那个掌子面</s>
<time>1673_00:55:30,042 --> 00:55:32,202</time>
<s>而且那个掌子面只有这么高</s>
<time>1674_00:55:32,922 --> 00:55:33,642</time>
<s>木你要这样拿那个十字镐正邀</s>
<time>1675_00:55:34,002 --> 00:55:34,722</time>
<s>你要这样拿那个十字镐</s>
<time>1676_00:55:36,522 --> 00:55:37,242</time>
<s>挖完了</s>
<time>1677_00:55:37,602 --> 00:55:38,682</time>
<s>拖着爬出来</s>
<time>1678_00:55:39,762 --> 00:55:41,202</time>
<s>所以那个也很难很艰难</s>
<time>1679_00:55:41,562 --> 00:55:42,642</time>
<s>那你想那干嘛呢</s>
<time>1680_00:55:44,082 --> 00:55:45,162</time>
<s>我也算是</s>
<time>1681_00:55:45,522 --> 00:55:46,242</time>
<s>只要事情一过了</s>
<time>1682_00:55:46,602 --> 00:55:48,762</time>
<s>我就不怎么太去想</s>
<time>1683_00:55:49,122 --> 00:55:49,842</time>
<s>确实很苦</s>
<time>1684_00:55:50,922 --> 00:55:51,642</time>
<s>那有什么办法</s>
<time>1685_00:55:54,162 --> 00:55:55,962</time>
<s>我还干过一丢人的事儿呢</s>
<time>1686_00:55:57,402 --> 00:55:59,202</time>
<s>在炉山汽车站</s>
<time>1687_00:56:00,642 --> 00:56:02,082</time>
<s>解放军叔叔</s>
<time>1688_00:56:02,442 --> 00:56:03,882</time>
<s>给根烟抽嘛</s>
<time>1689_00:56:04,242 --> 00:56:04,962</time>
<s>讨烟抽</s>
<time>1690_00:56:06,042 --> 00:56:07,122</time>
<s>解放军叔叔也</s>
<time>1691_00:56:07,482 --> 00:56:08,562</time>
<s>有点不好意思啊</s>
<time>1692_00:56:08,922 --> 00:56:09,642</time>
<s>给你根烟</s>
<time>1693_00:56:11,442 --> 00:56:12,522</time>
<s>解放军叔叔</s>
<time>1694_00:56:12,882 --> 00:56:13,962</time>
<s>你拿包烟给我嘛</s>
<time>1695_00:56:19,002 --> 00:56:19,722</time>
<s>所以我们</s>
<time>1696_00:56:20,082 --> 00:56:21,522</time>
<s>说老实话</s>
<time>1697_00:56:21,882 --> 00:56:22,962</time>
<s>一个人的那个尊严</s>
<time>1698_00:56:23,322 --> 00:56:24,762</time>
<s>被打到那个程度</s>
<time>1699_00:56:25,122 --> 00:56:26,922</time>
<s>你还有什么可怕的</s>
<time>1700_00:56:27,282 --> 00:56:27,642</time>
<s>是吧</s>
<time>1701_00:56:29,082 --> 00:56:29,802</time>
<s>你说我们心里面</s>
<time>1702_00:56:30,162 --> 00:56:30,522</time>
<s>有没有什么</s>
<time>1703_00:56:31,242 --> 00:56:31,602</time>
<s>阴影啊</s>
<time>1704_00:56:32,682 --> 00:56:33,402</time>
<s>这些</s>
<time>1705_00:56:33,762 --> 00:56:34,122</time>
<s>肯定有</s>
<time>1706_00:56:34,482 --> 00:56:36,282</time>
<s>但是有些事情你得过去啊</s>
<time>1707_00:56:36,642 --> 00:56:38,442</time>
<s>别一天到晚绷着难受</s>
<time>1708_00:56:38,802 --> 00:56:39,162</time>
<s>对不对</s>
<time>1709_00:56:39,882 --> 00:56:41,322</time>
<s>对我就说你有一面很放松的</s>
<time>1710_00:56:41,682 --> 00:56:42,762</time>
<s>也是不是跟我以前</s>
<time>1711_00:56:43,842 --> 00:56:44,562</time>
<s>比如说做运动</s>
<time>1712_00:56:44,922 --> 00:56:46,002</time>
<s>我觉得跟</s>
<time>1713_00:56:46,362 --> 00:56:47,082</time>
<s>跟打球有很大关系</s>
<time>1714_00:56:47,802 --> 00:56:48,522</time>
<s>所以我这个</s>
<time>1715_00:56:48,882 --> 00:56:51,042</time>
<s>又要发表不正确意见了</s>
<time>1716_00:56:51,402 --> 00:56:52,122</time>
<s>我认为</s>
<time>1717_00:56:52,482 --> 00:56:53,562</time>
<s>所有的小孩</s>
<time>1718_00:56:54,642 --> 00:56:55,722</time>
<s>最好去学体育</s>
<time>1719_00:56:56,802 --> 00:56:58,602</time>
<s>绝对对身心健康有好处</s>
<time>1720_00:56:58,962 --> 00:57:00,762</time>
<s>别老学文艺</s>
<time>1721_00:57:01,122 --> 00:57:02,562</time>
<s>吟风弄月</s>
<time>1722_00:57:03,282 --> 00:57:04,722</time>
<s>伤心感时</s>
<time>1723_00:57:05,802 --> 00:57:06,162</time>
<s>那不太好</s>
<time>1724_00:57:08,322 --> 00:57:10,482</time>
<s>我跟我太太的深刻矛盾</s>
<time>1725_00:57:11,922 --> 00:57:12,642</time>
<s>她看电影啊</s>
<time>1726_00:57:13,002 --> 00:57:14,442</time>
<s>专看文艺片</s>
<time>1727_00:57:14,802 --> 00:57:15,522</time>
<s>都特深刻</s>
<time>1728_00:57:15,882 --> 00:57:16,602</time>
<s>我要看就是看枪战片</s>
<time>1729_00:57:16,962 --> 00:57:18,042</time>
<s>砰砰砰</s>
<time>1730_00:57:18,402 --> 00:57:19,122</time>
<s>看完就忘了</s>
<time>1731_00:57:19,482 --> 00:57:20,202</time>
<s>第二天再看</s>
<time>1732_00:57:20,562 --> 00:57:21,642</time>
<s>好像没看过</s>
<time>1733_00:57:22,362 --> 00:57:22,722</time>
<s>就这样</s>
<time>1734_00:57:26,682 --> 00:57:27,402</time>
<s>但很多人经过那段时间</s>
<time>1735_00:57:27,762 --> 00:57:29,202</time>
<s>会变得很愤怒</s>
<time>1736_00:57:29,562 --> 00:57:31,002</time>
<s>对于那段时光的愤怒</s>
<time>1737_00:57:31,722 --> 00:57:32,802</time>
<s>其实我也是</s>
<time>1738_00:57:33,162 --> 00:57:33,522</time>
<s>得承认</s>
<time>1739_00:57:33,882 --> 00:57:34,962</time>
<s>我们也是属于说</s>
<time>1740_00:57:35,322 --> 00:57:36,762</time>
<s>我们现在过得比较好了</s>
<time>1741_00:57:37,122 --> 00:57:38,562</time>
<s>我们能正面地面对</s>
<time>1742_00:57:38,922 --> 00:57:39,642</time>
<s>过去这个生活</s>
<time>1743_00:57:40,722 --> 00:57:42,162</time>
<s>我中学同学肯定不愿意回忆</s>
<time>1744_00:57:43,962 --> 00:57:44,682</time>
<s>过去生活有什么好</s>
<time>1745_00:57:48,642 --> 00:57:49,722</time>
<s>我们是因为现在</s>
<time>1746_00:57:50,082 --> 00:57:50,442</time>
<s>你可以面对了</s>
<time>1747_00:57:52,962 --> 00:57:54,402</time>
<s>我们一直在检讨这个问题</s>
<time>1748_00:57:54,762 --> 00:57:55,122</time>
<s>就是说</s>
<time>1749_00:57:55,482 --> 00:57:56,562</time>
<s>项羽讲的那个话</s>
