<time>2_00:00:13,362 --> 00:00:14,082</time>
<s>你这样扶不行</s>
<time>3_00:00:14,442 --> 00:00:15,522</time>
<s>这样扶手扭曲了</s>
<time>4_00:00:16,242 --> 00:00:16,962</time>
<s>要不你托着我的肩膀呢</s>
<time>5_00:00:17,682 --> 00:00:18,042</time>
<s>不要不要</s>
<time>6_00:00:18,402 --> 00:00:19,122</time>
<s>就他一个人（扶）算了</s>
<time>7_00:00:27,402 --> 00:00:28,122</time>
<s>走这里我比斜坡上</s>
<time>8_00:00:28,482 --> 00:00:28,842</time>
<s>还好一点</s>
<time>9_00:00:29,922 --> 00:00:31,002</time>
<s>您好久没来这了吧</s>
<time>10_00:00:32,441 --> 00:00:33,161</time>
<s>那有好几年了</s>
<time>11_00:00:33,522 --> 00:00:33,882</time>
<s>后来（私家）车</s>
<time>12_00:00:34,242 --> 00:00:34,602</time>
<s>不能够开到这里</s>
<time>13_00:00:34,962 --> 00:00:35,682</time>
<s>我就不能来了</s>
<time>14_00:00:42,161 --> 00:00:43,602</time>
<s>这也是我最后一次来这里了</s>
<time>15_00:00:44,682 --> 00:00:45,762</time>
<s>每次都讲最后一次</s>
<time>16_00:00:46,842 --> 00:00:47,562</time>
<s>大概</s>
<time>17_00:00:47,922 --> 00:00:49,722</time>
<s>讲了几十次最后一次了</s>
<time>18_00:00:50,802 --> 00:00:51,882</time>
<s>那就是我领养的树</s>
<time>19_00:00:52,602 --> 00:00:53,322</time>
<s>那棵是吧</s>
<time>20_00:00:54,042 --> 00:00:55,482</time>
<s>我和朱纯（妻子）的名字</s>
<time>21_00:01:19,962 --> 00:01:21,402</time>
<s>我很多年前去见过他一次</s>
<time>22_00:01:22,122 --> 00:01:23,921</time>
<s>他用湖南话突然在屋里面</s>
<time>23_00:01:24,642 --> 00:01:25,722</time>
<s>就给我背这首诗</s>
<time>24_00:01:26,442 --> 00:01:28,242</time>
<s>然后讲起那时候的心情是什么</s>
<time>25_00:01:36,522 --> 00:01:37,242</time>
<s>你今年多大了</s>
<time>26_00:01:37,602 --> 00:01:37,962</time>
<s>我45岁</s>
<time>27_00:01:38,682 --> 00:01:39,042</time>
<s>55</s>
<time>28_00:01:39,402 --> 00:01:39,762</time>
<s>65</s>
<time>29_00:01:40,122 --> 00:01:40,482</time>
<s>75</s>
<time>30_00:01:40,842 --> 00:01:41,202</time>
<s>85</s>
<time>31_00:01:41,562 --> 00:01:42,642</time>
<s>将近还有五十年</s>
<time>32_00:01:43,722 --> 00:01:44,442</time>
<s>到我这个年龄</s>
<time>33_00:01:46,242 --> 00:01:47,682</time>
<s>因为我是没有满18岁</s>
<time>34_00:01:48,042 --> 00:01:48,762</time>
<s>就参加工作了</s>
<time>35_00:01:49,482 --> 00:01:50,922</time>
<s>没有想在报社干一辈子</s>
<time>36_00:01:52,002 --> 00:01:53,082</time>
<s>但是也从没有想到</s>
<time>37_00:01:53,442 --> 00:01:54,522</time>
<s>后来搞得那么严重</s>
<time>38_00:01:55,242 --> 00:01:56,682</time>
<s>把我送劳动教养了</s>
<time>39_00:02:17,562 --> 00:02:20,802</time>
<s>我49岁从牢里面放出来</s>
<time>40_00:02:21,162 --> 00:02:21,522</time>
<s>做出版</s>
<time>41_00:02:21,882 --> 00:02:23,682</time>
<s>是1979年以后才开始的</s>
<time>42_00:02:25,482 --> 00:02:26,202</time>
<s>其实您真正的人生</s>
<time>43_00:02:26,562 --> 00:02:28,722</time>
<s>其实从40多岁才真正开始</s>
<time>44_00:02:30,162 --> 00:02:30,522</time>
<s>3</s>
<time>45_00:02:32,322 --> 00:02:33,042</time>
<s>这没办法</s>
<time>46_00:02:33,402 --> 00:02:34,842</time>
<s>这人也不会很噢恼</s>
<time>47_00:02:35,202 --> 00:02:35,562</time>
<s>因为什么</s>
<time>48_00:02:35,922 --> 00:02:37,002</time>
<s>不是我所造成的事</s>
<time>49_00:02:38,442 --> 00:02:39,162</time>
<s>自己是被动的</s>
<time>50_00:02:39,882 --> 00:02:40,601</time>
<s>而我比起很多人来</s>
<time>51_00:02:40,961 --> 00:02:42,762</time>
<s>还算是幸运的</s>
<time>52_00:02:44,201 --> 00:02:44,562</time>
<s>判刑十年</s>
<time>53_00:02:45,642 --> 00:02:47,082</time>
<s>是我想得比较多的时候</s>
<time>54_00:02:47,802 --> 00:02:48,162</time>
<s>世界的问题</s>
<time>55_00:02:48,522 --> 00:02:49,242</time>
<s>中国的问题</s>
<time>56_00:02:49,602 --> 00:02:51,402</time>
<s>劳改犯也是最有时间的</s>
<time>57_00:02:52,122 --> 00:02:52,482</time>
<s>对吧</s>
<time>58_00:02:53,201 --> 00:02:53,921</time>
<s>他有非常自由</s>
<time>59_00:02:54,282 --> 00:02:54,641</time>
<s>健康的东西</s>
<time>60_00:02:55,722 --> 00:02:56,441</time>
<s>然后今日这个自由个性</s>
<time>61_00:02:57,161 --> 00:02:58,601</time>
<s>我就会偶尔读他的书</s>
<time>62_00:02:59,681 --> 00:03:00,762</time>
<s>因为他对我们这一代</s>
<time>63_00:03:01,122 --> 00:03:01,842</time>
<s>包括这两代人</s>
<time>64_00:03:02,201 --> 00:03:03,282</time>
<s>最重要的一个作品就是</s>
<time>65_00:03:03,642 --> 00:03:05,802</time>
<s>“走向世界丛书</s>
<time>66_00:03:06,161 --> 00:03:07,962</time>
<s>是当时整个八十年代</s>
<time>67_00:03:08,682 --> 00:03:10,842</time>
<s>最重要的几部丛书之一</s>
<time>68_00:03:34,602 --> 00:03:35,682</time>
<s>实际上最重要讲的一点</s>
<time>69_00:03:36,042 --> 00:03:37,122</time>
<s>经过这么严酷的考验之后回</s>
<time>70_00:03:37,482 --> 00:03:38,922</time>
<s>仍然能保持那种灵性的</s>
<time>71_00:03:39,282 --> 00:03:40,362</time>
<s>这么一个人</s>
<time>72_00:03:40,722 --> 00:03:41,442</time>
<s>而且我觉得他很自足</s>
<time>73_00:03:41,802 --> 00:03:43,242</time>
<s>他没有移动</s>
<time>74_00:03:43,602 --> 00:03:45,042</time>
<s>但他就去想象了一个世界</s>
<time>75_00:03:45,762 --> 00:03:47,202</time>
<s>去创造了一个世界</s>
<time>76_00:04:29,682 --> 00:04:31,481</time>
<s>现在觉得时间不够了</s>
<time>77_00:04:32,202 --> 00:04:33,281</time>
<s>所以我还是想争取</s>
<time>78_00:04:33,642 --> 00:04:34,722</time>
<s>把自传写一下</s>
<time>79_00:04:36,162 --> 00:04:37,242</time>
<s>我只写我自己</s>
<time>80_00:04:37,602 --> 00:04:39,762</time>
<s>所知所感所思</s>
<time>81_00:04:41,562 --> 00:04:43,722</time>
<s>我很少讲别人讲过的话</s>
<time>82_00:04:45,162 --> 00:04:46,242</time>
<s>我也不去讲别人</s>
<time>83_00:04:47,321 --> 00:04:48,762</time>
<s>要我讲的话</s>
<time>84_00:04:49,841 --> 00:04:50,562</time>
<s>我自己原谅自己</s>
<time>85_00:04:50,922 --> 00:04:53,802</time>
<s>我不是有勇气或者有可能</s>
<time>86_00:04:54,162 --> 00:04:56,322</time>
<s>去讲我所有想讲的话</s>
<time>87_00:04:57,762 --> 00:04:59,562</time>
<s>但是我绝不讲一句</s>
<time>88_00:04:59,922 --> 00:05:01,002</time>
<s>我不想讲的话</s>
<time>89_00:05:26,922 --> 00:05:28,002</time>
<s>倦怠总会袭来</s>
<time>90_00:05:29,442 --> 00:05:30,522</time>
<s>你渴望新的感受</s>
<time>91_00:05:31,962 --> 00:05:33,042</time>
<s>一条从未踏足的小径</s>
<time>92_00:05:34,482 --> 00:05:35,562</time>
<s>一个突然到来的朋友</s>
<time>93_00:05:36,642 --> 00:05:37,722</time>
<s>或是一个意外的句子</s>
<time>94_00:05:40,962 --> 00:05:41,682</time>
<s>但旧与新</s>
<time>95_00:05:42,402 --> 00:05:43,482</time>
<s>从来是紧密的链条</s>
<time>96_00:05:45,282 --> 00:05:46,002</time>
<s>唯内在笃定</s>
<time>97_00:05:47,082 --> 00:05:48,522</time>
<s>才不断激发外在探索</s>
<time>98_00:05:51,042 --> 00:05:51,762</time>
<s>因为你始终知道</s>
<time>99_00:05:52,842 --> 00:05:53,921</time>
<s>爱是一切的源头</s>
<time>100_00:05:55,722 --> 00:05:56,082</time>
<s>新道路</s>
<time>101_00:05:56,801 --> 00:05:57,882</time>
<s>总因它意外浮现</s>
<time>102_00:06:00,401 --> 00:06:02,202</time>
<s>唯爱与生命不可辜负</s>
<time>103_00:06:20,562 --> 00:06:21,642</time>
<s>这里是《走向世界》</s>
<time>104_00:06:22,002 --> 00:06:22,362</time>
<s>我也弄好了</s>
<time>105_00:06:24,522 --> 00:06:24,882</time>
<s>发现这里面</s>
<time>106_00:06:25,242 --> 00:06:26,322</time>
<s>还有原书的错误</s>
<time>107_00:06:28,122 --> 00:06:29,562</time>
<s>这个书中华书局印了四版</s>
<time>108_00:06:30,282 --> 00:06:31,002</time>
<s>那就说明这个错误</s>
<time>109_00:06:31,362 --> 00:06:31,722</time>
<s>一直印了四版</s>
<time>110_00:06:32,082 --> 00:06:32,442</time>
<s>没有人发现</s>
<time>111_00:06:34,242 --> 00:06:35,322</time>
<s>很明显的错误</s>
<time>112_00:06:47,202 --> 00:06:47,562</time>
<s>这边这边</s>
<time>113_00:06:51,882 --> 00:06:52,962</time>
<s>忘了好像十年前来的</s>
<time>114_00:07:02,322 --> 00:07:03,402</time>
<s>念楼</s>
<time>115_00:07:08,802 --> 00:07:09,522</time>
<s>这里有个附表</s>
<time>116_00:07:10,962 --> 00:07:11,682</time>
<s>“洞女禁限”</s>
<time>117_00:07:12,042 --> 00:07:13,122</time>
<s>应该是“洞女葉限”吧</s>
<time>118_00:07:14,922 --> 00:07:15,642</time>
<s>“洞女葉限”</s>
<time>119_00:07:16,002 --> 00:07:17,802</time>
<s>“古龟慈王”</s>
<time>120_00:07:18,162 --> 00:07:19,242</time>
<s>这个问题你早就发现了</s>
<time>121_00:07:19,962 --> 00:07:20,322</time>
<s>它原来排的是</s>
<time>122_00:07:20,682 --> 00:07:21,762</time>
<s>“慈爱”的“慈”</s>
<time>123_00:07:22,122 --> 00:07:23,922</time>
<s>这两个都是硬伤</s>
<time>124_00:07:24,642 --> 00:07:25,362</time>
<s>印了二十年</s>
<time>125_00:07:25,722 --> 00:07:26,802</time>
<s>印了四个版本</s>
<time>126_00:07:27,162 --> 00:07:28,962</time>
<s>自己的书不会都去看了</s>
<time>127_00:07:29,322 --> 00:07:30,402</time>
<s>但是这个字</s>
<time>128_00:07:30,762 --> 00:07:31,122</time>
<s>应该是要改成</s>
<time>129_00:07:31,842 --> 00:07:32,562</time>
<s>不要不要</s>
<time>130_00:07:32,922 --> 00:07:33,642</time>
<s>它作为名字</s>
<time>131_00:07:34,002 --> 00:07:34,722</time>
<s>用这个好些</s>
<time>132_00:07:35,082 --> 00:07:35,802</time>
<s>它是个古名字</s>
<time>133_00:07:37,962 --> 00:07:38,682</time>
<s>你把它搞成一个口字旁</s>
<time>134_00:07:39,042 --> 00:07:39,402</time>
<s>个十字</s>
<time>135_00:07:40,122 --> 00:07:41,202</time>
<s>简化汉字把它来</s>
<time>136_00:07:41,922 --> 00:07:42,642</time>
<s>代替这个葉字</s>
<time>137_00:07:43,002 --> 00:07:43,722</time>
<s>就是错误的</s>
<time>138_00:07:45,162 --> 00:07:45,522</time>
<s>告诉社里</s>
<time>139_00:07:45,882 --> 00:07:47,322</time>
<s>就是锺叔河要折腾这个</s>
<time>140_00:07:47,682 --> 00:07:49,122</time>
<s>就是这样的错误是硬伤</s>
<time>141_00:07:50,202 --> 00:07:50,562</time>
<s>你一定要说明</s>
<time>142_00:07:50,922 --> 00:07:51,282</time>
<s>要告诉就是</s>
<time>143_00:07:51,642 --> 00:07:52,002</time>
<s>锺老师</s>
<time>144_00:07:52,722 --> 00:07:53,442</time>
<s>你进来坐</s>
<time>145_00:07:53,802 --> 00:07:54,522</time>
<s>我就来看您工作来的</s>
<time>146_00:07:55,242 --> 00:07:55,602</time>
<s>你等一下</s>
<time>147_00:07:56,322 --> 00:07:57,402</time>
<s>你让她谈完</s>
<time>148_00:07:57,762 --> 00:07:58,482</time>
<s>我们再搞好吧</s>
<time>149_00:07:58,842 --> 00:07:59,562</time>
<s>我知道理解理解</s>
<time>150_00:08:00,642 --> 00:08:01,002</time>
<s>你们（继续）</s>
<time>151_00:08:03,162 --> 00:08:04,242</time>
<s>这张是这样的</s>
<time>152_00:08:04,602 --> 00:08:05,322</time>
<s>两个图打开看看</s>
<time>153_00:08:14,322 --> 00:08:15,762</time>
<s>《春风沉醉的晚上》</s>
<time>154_00:08:16,122 --> 00:08:18,282</time>
<s>特别那个年代的感觉</s>
<time>155_00:08:19,362 --> 00:08:20,442</time>
<s>他就真的爱读书</s>
<time>156_00:08:22,602 --> 00:08:23,322</time>
<s>沈从文</s>
<time>157_00:08:24,762 --> 00:08:25,842</time>
<s>我听到那个消息</s>
<time>158_00:08:26,202 --> 00:08:26,562</time>
<s>一个是</s>
<time>159_00:08:27,282 --> 00:08:27,642</time>
<s>沈昌文</s>
<time>160_00:08:28,722 --> 00:08:29,082</time>
<s>流沙河</s>
<time>161_00:08:30,162 --> 00:08:31,602</time>
<s>都是死在最近几个月里面</s>
<time>162_00:08:31,962 --> 00:08:32,681</time>
<s>就是今年</s>
<time>163_00:08:33,402 --> 00:08:34,482</time>
<s>都是1931年生人</s>
<time>164_00:08:36,282 --> 00:08:36,642</time>
<s>对吧</s>
<time>165_00:08:37,002 --> 00:08:37,722</time>
<s>还比我小</s>
<time>166_00:08:38,802 --> 00:08:40,242</time>
<s>而且走得很突然</s>
<time>167_00:08:40,602 --> 00:08:42,042</time>
<s>所以我也赶快揽起来</s>
<time>168_00:08:42,402 --> 00:08:44,922</time>
<s>要赶紧把这十本书搞出来</s>
<time>169_00:08:45,282 --> 00:08:45,642</time>
<s>不然的话</s>
<time>170_00:08:46,002 --> 00:08:48,162</time>
<s>假如我一死就麻烦蛮多了</s>
<time>171_00:08:48,882 --> 00:08:49,602</time>
<s>所以是有紧迫性的</s>
<time>172_00:08:52,842 --> 00:08:54,642</time>
<s>你让刚才那位先生进来吧</s>
<time>173_00:08:55,002 --> 00:08:55,722</time>
<s>你把他喊来</s>
<time>174_00:08:59,681 --> 00:09:00,042</time>
<s>请进</s>
<time>175_00:09:00,762 --> 00:09:02,562</time>
<s>我就来看您工作来的</s>
<time>176_00:09:02,922 --> 00:09:03,642</time>
<s>这个地方就是这样的</s>
<time>177_00:09:04,002 --> 00:09:04,362</time>
<s>好</s>
<time>178_00:09:04,721 --> 00:09:06,162</time>
<s>来拿把椅子坐那里</s>
<time>179_00:09:07,242 --> 00:09:08,322</time>
<s>这么整齐的笔</s>
<time>180_00:09:08,682 --> 00:09:09,761</time>
<s>都是来修改用的是吗</s>
<time>181_00:09:10,122 --> 00:09:10,841</time>
<s>对他那个笔</s>
<time>182_00:09:11,202 --> 00:09:12,282</time>
<s>他甚至精细到了</s>
<time>183_00:09:12,642 --> 00:09:14,082</time>
<s>笔芯一定要是0.35的</s>
<time>184_00:09:15,882 --> 00:09:16,602</time>
<s>要必须要小字</s>
<time>185_00:09:16,962 --> 00:09:18,042</time>
<s>要写得清清楚楚</s>
<time>186_00:09:25,602 --> 00:09:27,042</time>
<s>您从小就这么细心吗</s>
<time>187_00:09:28,482 --> 00:09:29,562</time>
<s>就会（在意）每一个点</s>
<time>188_00:09:29,922 --> 00:09:32,082</time>
<s>我是比较自己吹自己了</s>
<time>189_00:09:32,442 --> 00:09:33,882</time>
<s>第一我并没有什么</s>
<time>190_00:09:34,242 --> 00:09:35,322</time>
<s>很好的学问</s>
<time>191_00:09:37,122 --> 00:09:40,002</time>
<s>我认为一个人的才能</s>
<time>192_00:09:40,721 --> 00:09:41,442</time>
<s>依近代来讲</s>
<time>193_00:09:41,802 --> 00:09:42,882</time>
<s>就是按照刘知</s>
<time>194_00:09:43,242 --> 00:09:43,962</time>
<s>写《史通》的</s>
<time>195_00:09:45,042 --> 00:09:45,402</time>
<s>他讲的所谓</s>
<time>196_00:09:45,762 --> 00:09:47,202</time>
<s>“才学识”三个字</s>
<time>197_00:09:49,362 --> 00:09:49,722</time>
<s>才学识</s>
<time>198_00:09:50,082 --> 00:09:50,802</time>
<s>学是学问</s>
<time>199_00:09:51,162 --> 00:09:52,242</time>
<s>识是见识</s>
<time>200_00:09:52,602 --> 00:09:54,402</time>
<s>其实这三个是不能分割的</s>
<time>201_00:09:55,842 --> 00:09:56,562</time>
<s>都有联系的</s>
<time>202_00:09:58,362 --> 00:09:59,802</time>
<s>知识分子如果我们分类</s>
<time>203_00:10:00,162 --> 00:10:01,602</time>
<s>可以分为三个大部分</s>
<time>204_00:10:02,681 --> 00:10:03,762</time>
<s>最大的一个部分是教师</s>
<time>205_00:10:04,482 --> 00:10:05,562</time>
<s>我认为作为老师来讲</s>
<time>206_00:10:05,922 --> 00:10:06,641</time>
<s>最重要的是</s>
<time>207_00:10:07,002 --> 00:10:08,082</time>
<s>要懂得多一点</s>
<time>208_00:10:08,442 --> 00:10:09,881</time>
<s>传道授业解惑</s>
<time>209_00:10:10,962 --> 00:10:12,402</time>
<s>其它的素质当然要有</s>
<time>210_00:10:12,762 --> 00:10:14,922</time>
<s>但是最重要是以学见长</s>
<time>211_00:10:16,002 --> 00:10:16,722</time>
<s>作家不必要</s>
<time>212_00:10:17,801 --> 00:10:19,602</time>
<s>物理和地理不懂也没关系</s>
<time>213_00:10:19,962 --> 00:10:21,042</time>
<s>数学我不知道</s>
<time>214_00:10:21,402 --> 00:10:22,482</time>
<s>英史政地做不出</s>
<time>215_00:10:22,842 --> 00:10:23,922</time>
<s>不碍他成为作家</s>
<time>216_00:10:24,282 --> 00:10:25,002</time>
<s>和成为诗人</s>
<time>217_00:10:25,362 --> 00:10:26,082</time>
<s>这是知识分子里面</s>
<time>218_00:10:26,442 --> 00:10:28,242</time>
<s>应该算是比较精英的一部分</s>
<time>219_00:10:28,602 --> 00:10:30,402</time>
<s>他们最重要的是才</s>
<time>220_00:10:32,202 --> 00:10:32,922</time>
<s>像我们这些</s>
<time>221_00:10:33,282 --> 00:10:34,002</time>
<s>搞传播的</s>
<time>222_00:10:35,082 --> 00:10:36,521</time>
<s>搞媒体的</s>
<time>223_00:10:37,242 --> 00:10:37,962</time>
<s>搞信息的</s>
<time>224_00:10:38,322 --> 00:10:39,402</time>
<s>这也占很大一部分</s>
<time>225_00:10:40,482 --> 00:10:42,282</time>
<s>新闻和出版都不是学问</s>
<time>226_00:10:43,362 --> 00:10:44,442</time>
<s>我也并不认为</s>
<time>227_00:10:44,801 --> 00:10:46,601</time>
<s>可以提出来什么编辑学</s>
<time>228_00:10:46,962 --> 00:10:48,402</time>
<s>这反正都是过高的要求</s>
<time>229_00:10:49,122 --> 00:10:49,841</time>
<s>它是一个职业</s>
<time>230_00:10:50,562 --> 00:10:51,642</time>
<s>并不需要学者</s>
<time>231_00:10:53,082 --> 00:10:54,522</time>
<s>也并不要什么很大的才</s>
<time>232_00:10:54,882 --> 00:10:56,322</time>
<s>编辑把他的书印好</s>
<time>233_00:10:56,682 --> 00:10:58,122</time>
<s>记者采访好搞好报道</s>
<time>234_00:10:58,842 --> 00:10:59,562</time>
<s>这在社会来讲</s>
<time>235_00:10:59,921 --> 00:11:01,002</time>
<s>他就是个很成功的人了</s>
<time>236_00:11:04,962 --> 00:11:06,761</time>
<s>但是作为知识分子来讲</s>
<time>237_00:11:07,122 --> 00:11:07,482</time>
<s>我认为</s>
<time>238_00:11:07,841 --> 00:11:09,641</time>
<s>对于人类和对于社会要尽职的</s>
<time>239_00:11:10,362 --> 00:11:11,802</time>
<s>编辑和记者都有</s>
<time>240_00:11:12,882 --> 00:11:13,962</time>
<s>都是公共知识分子</s>
<time>241_00:11:15,402 --> 00:11:16,482</time>
<s>要有社会感</s>
<time>242_00:11:17,562 --> 00:11:19,002</time>
<s>我要关心社会</s>
<time>243_00:11:19,362 --> 00:11:20,082</time>
<s>是想通过参与</s>
<time>244_00:11:20,442 --> 00:11:21,522</time>
<s>变革这个社会</s>
<time>245_00:11:22,602 --> 00:11:23,322</time>
<s>这个是更高级的</s>
<time>246_00:11:25,122 --> 00:11:25,842</time>
<s>这一部分人</s>
<time>247_00:11:26,202 --> 00:11:26,922</time>
<s>我认为最重要的素质</s>
<time>248_00:11:27,282 --> 00:11:27,642</time>
<s>是见识</s>
<time>249_00:11:29,082 --> 00:11:31,242</time>
<s>您觉得“才学识”</s>
<time>250_00:11:31,962 --> 00:11:32,322</time>
<s>您怎么评价</s>
<time>251_00:11:32,682 --> 00:11:33,402</time>
<s>自己身上的“才学识”</s>
<time>252_00:11:33,762 --> 00:11:34,122</time>
<s>我的才是</s>
<time>253_00:11:34,482 --> 00:11:35,562</time>
<s>没有什么才的</s>
<time>254_00:11:36,282 --> 00:11:37,002</time>
<s>六十分吧</s>
<time>255_00:11:37,362 --> 00:11:38,442</time>
<s>就在及格线上</s>
<time>256_00:11:38,801 --> 00:11:40,242</time>
<s>我也不能说我很笨</s>
<time>257_00:11:41,682 --> 00:11:43,122</time>
<s>那是属于谦虚</s>
<time>258_00:11:43,482 --> 00:11:44,562</time>
<s>也没什么必要</s>
<time>259_00:11:46,002 --> 00:11:47,802</time>
<s>学打六七十分吧</s>
<time>260_00:11:48,881 --> 00:11:49,602</time>
<s>因为不可能有学了</s>
<time>261_00:11:49,961 --> 00:11:50,682</time>
<s>英文不懂得</s>
<time>262_00:11:52,122 --> 00:11:53,562</time>
<s>你英文可以考六级</s>
<time>263_00:11:53,922 --> 00:11:55,722</time>
<s>我英文只能够查字典</s>
<time>264_00:11:57,521 --> 00:11:58,962</time>
<s>现代没有外文</s>
<time>265_00:11:59,322 --> 00:12:00,402</time>
<s>就不是完全意义上的</s>
<time>266_00:12:00,761 --> 00:12:01,122</time>
<s>知识分子</s>
<time>267_00:12:02,922 --> 00:12:04,362</time>
<s>你不了解水平动向</s>
<time>268_00:12:05,442 --> 00:12:06,162</time>
<s>但是见识</s>
<time>269_00:12:06,522 --> 00:12:07,242</time>
<s>我认为我还有一点</s>
<time>270_00:12:07,601 --> 00:12:09,402</time>
<s>应该可以打到七八十分吧</s>
<time>271_00:12:11,562 --> 00:12:11,922</time>
<s>就是我</s>
<time>272_00:12:12,282 --> 00:12:14,442</time>
<s>求知的心更浅</s>
<time>273_00:12:14,801 --> 00:12:16,242</time>
<s>不能成为学者</s>
<time>274_00:12:16,602 --> 00:12:19,122</time>
<s>求道的心更少</s>
<time>275_00:12:19,842 --> 00:12:20,922</time>
<s>不能成为信徒</s>
<time>276_00:12:22,362 --> 00:12:23,442</time>
<s>这也是周作人的话</s>
<time>277_00:12:24,882 --> 00:12:26,682</time>
<s>就是我不去轻易相信</s>
<time>278_00:12:27,762 --> 00:12:28,842</time>
<s>别人给我的结论</s>
<time>279_00:12:29,922 --> 00:12:32,442</time>
<s>我也并不信仰任何东西</s>
<time>280_00:12:34,602 --> 00:12:37,482</time>
<s>我不能成为一个信徒</s>
<time>281_00:12:38,202 --> 00:12:40,722</time>
<s>因为我是有自由的思想</s>
<time>282_00:12:42,882 --> 00:12:44,682</time>
<s>我讲现在其实我是自由的</s>
<time>283_00:12:45,042 --> 00:12:46,122</time>
<s>我是这样想的</s>
<time>284_00:12:46,482 --> 00:12:47,202</time>
<s>也是这么做的</s>
<time>285_00:12:48,642 --> 00:12:49,722</time>
<s>您知道您身上</s>
<time>286_00:12:50,082 --> 00:12:50,442</time>
<s>特别吸引人的</s>
<time>287_00:12:50,802 --> 00:12:52,602</time>
<s>就是那种自由自在的东西</s>
<time>288_00:12:53,322 --> 00:12:53,682</time>
<s>特别强</s>
<time>289_00:12:57,282 --> 00:12:59,082</time>
<s>但是我自己吃亏吃大了</s>
<time>290_00:13:11,322 --> 00:13:12,042</time>
<s>他是一个特别</s>
<time>291_00:13:12,402 --> 00:13:13,482</time>
<s>细致认真的人吧</s>
<time>292_00:13:13,842 --> 00:13:14,922</time>
<s>他已经认真到了</s>
<time>293_00:13:15,642 --> 00:13:16,722</time>
<s>令人发指的地步了</s>
<time>294_00:13:18,162 --> 00:13:18,882</time>
<s>细致到令人发指</s>
<time>295_00:13:19,242 --> 00:13:19,602</time>
<s>他就是</s>
<time>296_00:13:20,322 --> 00:13:21,042</time>
<s>我给他的稿子</s>
<time>297_00:13:21,762 --> 00:13:23,202</time>
<s>他发现最后一页折了</s>
<time>298_00:13:23,922 --> 00:13:25,002</time>
<s>他都会打电话跟我说</s>
<time>299_00:13:25,722 --> 00:13:27,162</time>
<s>他说你做事不认真啊</s>
<time>300_00:13:27,522 --> 00:13:28,242</time>
<s>我当时就觉得</s>
<time>301_00:13:28,602 --> 00:13:29,682</time>
<s>折了这不是很正常的</s>
<time>302_00:13:30,042 --> 00:13:31,122</time>
<s>你把它撸顺了不就行了</s>
<time>303_00:13:32,202 --> 00:13:32,562</time>
<s>他就说</s>
<time>304_00:13:32,922 --> 00:13:33,282</time>
<s>我告诉你</s>
<time>305_00:13:34,002 --> 00:13:35,442</time>
<s>就是他把那些旧的信封</s>
<time>306_00:13:35,802 --> 00:13:36,882</time>
<s>他把它裁剪下来</s>
<time>307_00:13:37,242 --> 00:13:37,962</time>
<s>然后把它包成</s>
<time>308_00:13:38,322 --> 00:13:39,762</time>
<s>一个C字型的东西</s>
<time>309_00:13:40,482 --> 00:13:41,202</time>
<s>然后包住（书角）</s>
<time>310_00:13:41,922 --> 00:13:43,002</time>
<s>先进（包角的）那一头</s>
<time>311_00:13:43,722 --> 00:13:44,802</time>
<s>它就每一页都不会折了</s>
<time>312_00:13:51,282 --> 00:13:53,082</time>
<s>就是他做“走向世界丛书”</s>
<time>313_00:13:53,802 --> 00:13:54,522</time>
<s>（当时）就会有人说</s>
<time>314_00:13:55,242 --> 00:13:55,602</time>
<s>你做这个东西</s>
<time>315_00:13:55,962 --> 00:13:57,042</time>
<s>你是不是编辑想要</s>
<time>316_00:13:57,402 --> 00:13:59,202</time>
<s>坐便车然后来出名</s>
<time>317_00:14:00,282 --> 00:14:00,642</time>
<s>然后</s>
<time>318_00:14:01,002 --> 00:14:01,722</time>
<s>就会不允许</s>
<time>319_00:14:02,082 --> 00:14:03,162</time>
<s>他署自己的名字</s>
<time>320_00:14:04,242 --> 00:14:05,322</time>
<s>他就想了很多个办法</s>
<time>321_00:14:06,042 --> 00:14:07,122</time>
<s>比如说（化名）“谷及世”</s>
<time>322_00:14:07,842 --> 00:14:08,922</time>
<s>其实就是“古籍室”的谐音</s>
<time>323_00:14:09,282 --> 00:14:10,002</time>
<s>然后还有什么</s>
<time>324_00:14:10,722 --> 00:14:11,442</time>
<s>“金又可”</s>
<time>325_00:14:11,802 --> 00:14:12,522</time>
<s>就是他的名字的半边</s>
<time>326_00:14:13,962 --> 00:14:14,682</time>
<s>我觉得这种事情</s>
<time>327_00:14:16,482 --> 00:14:16,842</time>
<s>包括他</s>
<time>328_00:14:17,202 --> 00:14:17,562</time>
<s>当时出版社</s>
<time>329_00:14:17,922 --> 00:14:19,002</time>
<s>要求就是每个编辑</s>
<time>330_00:14:19,362 --> 00:14:20,442</time>
<s>每一年只有四个书号</s>
<time>331_00:14:21,162 --> 00:14:21,522</time>
<s>但是如果你</s>
<time>332_00:14:21,882 --> 00:14:23,322</time>
<s>要占十多个书号的话</s>
<time>333_00:14:23,682 --> 00:14:24,402</time>
<s>你不是把别人的书号</s>
<time>334_00:14:24,762 --> 00:14:25,122</time>
<s>给占了吗</s>
<time>335_00:14:25,842 --> 00:14:26,202</time>
<s>锺老师说</s>
<time>336_00:14:27,282 --> 00:14:28,002</time>
<s>那我可以不出啊</s>
<time>337_00:14:28,362 --> 00:14:29,442</time>
<s>我就今年不出明年不出</s>
<time>338_00:14:29,802 --> 00:14:30,162</time>
<s>我揽了那么多个书号</s>
<time>339_00:14:30,522 --> 00:14:31,602</time>
<s>我再出行吧</s>
<time>340_00:14:31,962 --> 00:14:32,322</time>
<s>他说这个书</s>
<time>341_00:14:32,682 --> 00:14:34,122</time>
<s>你不可能一本一本地出</s>
<time>342_00:14:34,482 --> 00:14:35,922</time>
<s>你必须要一系列地出出来</s>
<time>343_00:14:36,282 --> 00:14:37,002</time>
<s>才会有影响力</s>
<time>344_00:14:38,442 --> 00:14:39,162</time>
<s>你觉得</s>
<time>345_00:14:41,322 --> 00:14:43,122</time>
<s>他怎么能保持这种</s>
<time>346_00:14:44,202 --> 00:14:45,642</time>
<s>那种又天真</s>
<time>347_00:14:46,002 --> 00:14:47,082</time>
<s>又非常有性格</s>
<time>348_00:14:48,162 --> 00:14:48,522</time>
<s>然后又</s>
<time>349_00:14:48,882 --> 00:14:49,602</time>
<s>还挺顽皮的嘛</s>
<time>350_00:14:50,322 --> 00:14:50,682</time>
<s>然后</s>
<time>351_00:14:51,402 --> 00:14:51,762</time>
<s>又其实</s>
<time>352_00:14:52,482 --> 00:14:53,202</time>
<s>他有世故的一面</s>
<time>353_00:14:53,562 --> 00:14:54,642</time>
<s>但是又有非常天真的一面</s>
<time>354_00:14:55,722 --> 00:14:56,802</time>
<s>就很少有人能保持成这样</s>
<time>355_00:14:57,162 --> 00:14:57,882</time>
<s>就经过这么多的</s>
<time>356_00:14:58,602 --> 00:14:58,962</time>
<s>挫折</s>
<time>357_00:14:59,322 --> 00:15:00,042</time>
<s>好像也没什么太多</s>
<time>358_00:15:00,402 --> 00:15:00,762</time>
<s>苦难的感觉</s>
<time>359_00:15:01,122 --> 00:15:01,482</time>
<s>其实他</s>
<time>360_00:15:02,562 --> 00:15:03,642</time>
<s>人生里面有很多</s>
<time>361_00:15:04,002 --> 00:15:04,722</time>
<s>不公平的事情</s>
<time>362_00:15:05,082 --> 00:15:05,442</time>
<s>对不如意的事</s>
<time>363_00:15:06,162 --> 00:15:07,242</time>
<s>就平时他跟我讲</s>
<time>364_00:15:07,602 --> 00:15:07,962</time>
<s>包括他</s>
<time>365_00:15:09,402 --> 00:15:10,842</time>
<s>在监狱里的事情</s>
<time>366_00:15:11,922 --> 00:15:12,282</time>
<s>还有包括</s>
<time>367_00:15:12,642 --> 00:15:13,722</time>
<s>在劳改的时候的事情</s>
<time>368_00:15:15,162 --> 00:15:16,962</time>
<s>有时候听他们讲这些事情</s>
<time>369_00:15:17,322 --> 00:15:18,042</time>
<s>好像很遥远</s>
<time>370_00:15:18,402 --> 00:15:19,482</time>
<s>又好像很接近</s>
<time>371_00:15:19,842 --> 00:15:20,922</time>
<s>但是他们都是以一种</s>
<time>372_00:15:21,642 --> 00:15:23,442</time>
<s>非常戏嘘的这种口吻说出来</s>
<time>373_00:15:24,162 --> 00:15:24,522</time>
<s>好像这种事情</s>
<time>374_00:15:24,882 --> 00:15:25,242</time>
<s>是发生在别人身上</s>
<time>375_00:15:25,602 --> 00:15:27,402</time>
<s>他只是一个见证者的感觉</s>
<time>376_00:15:27,762 --> 00:15:28,842</time>
<s>有的时候会有这种</s>
<time>377_00:15:29,202 --> 00:15:29,922</time>
<s>我会觉得</s>
<time>378_00:15:30,642 --> 00:15:31,722</time>
<s>如果我在那个年代</s>
<time>379_00:15:32,082 --> 00:15:33,162</time>
<s>我做不做得到这样呢</s>
<time>380_00:15:33,522 --> 00:15:34,602</time>
<s>里面肯定有很多</s>
<time>381_00:15:34,962 --> 00:15:35,322</time>
<s>不公平</s>
<time>382_00:15:35,682 --> 00:15:36,762</time>
<s>很痛苦的</s>
<time>383_00:15:47,562 --> 00:15:47,922</time>
<s>光乐国家图书馆</s>
<time>384_00:15:48,642 --> 00:15:50,442</time>
<s>我要找张德彝的“述奇”</s>
<time>385_00:15:51,162 --> 00:15:51,522</time>
<s>述是讲述的述吗</s>
<time>386_00:15:51,882 --> 00:15:52,602</time>
<s>讲述的述</s>
<time>387_00:15:53,682 --> 00:15:54,042</time>
<s>有的</s>
<time>388_00:15:55,122 --> 00:15:56,562</time>
<s>它是属于我们这儿的一个善本</s>
<time>389_00:15:56,922 --> 00:15:57,642</time>
<s>它没有缩微胶卷</s>
<time>390_00:15:58,002 --> 00:15:59,082</time>
<s>只能提原件</s>
<time>391_00:15:59,802 --> 00:16:00,162</time>
<s>那我给您拿一下</s>
<time>392_00:16:00,522 --> 00:16:00,882</time>
<s>谢谢你</s>
<time>393_00:16:01,242 --> 00:16:01,602</time>
<s>您稍等一下</s>
<time>394_00:16:01,962 --> 00:16:02,682</time>
<s>好的好的</s>
<time>395_00:16:07,362 --> 00:16:09,882</time>
<s>可能都还不知道这套书的存在游</s>
<time>396_00:16:12,042 --> 00:16:12,402</time>
<s>谢谢你</s>
<time>397_00:16:13,122 --> 00:16:14,562</time>
<s>这个书一共是七册</s>
<time>398_00:16:16,002 --> 00:16:16,362</time>
<s>七册是吧</s>
<time>399_00:16:17,082 --> 00:16:19,242</time>
<s>有一册在展览</s>
<time>400_00:16:19,962 --> 00:16:20,682</time>
<s>同治12年（1873）写的</s>
<time>401_00:16:36,882 --> 00:16:37,962</time>
<s>至更庚午冬回京</s>
<time>402_00:16:38,322 --> 00:16:42,282</time>
<s>“时张君在初以翻译官随行”</s>
<time>403_00:16:43,362 --> 00:16:44,082</time>
<s>张德彝是翻译官</s>
<time>404_00:16:45,882 --> 00:16:46,602</time>
<s>“先是张君随</s>
<time>405_00:16:47,682 --> 00:16:48,402</time>
<s>你知道</s>
<time>406_00:16:48,762 --> 00:16:50,202</time>
<s>第一个见过唱片的是谁吗</s>
<time>407_00:16:50,922 --> 00:16:51,642</time>
<s>就是张德彝</s>
<time>408_00:16:52,002 --> 00:16:53,082</time>
<s>和他当时的</s>
<time>409_00:16:53,442 --> 00:16:54,882</time>
<s>他去英国的时候的</s>
<time>410_00:16:55,602 --> 00:16:56,322</time>
<s>大使</s>
<time>411_00:16:57,762 --> 00:16:58,482</time>
<s>你知道他们见到谁了吗</s>
<time>412_00:16:59,922 --> 00:17:02,442</time>
<s>是爱迪生给他们讲解的唱片</s>
<time>413_00:17:02,802 --> 00:17:03,522</time>
<s>是不是很神奇</s>
<time>414_00:17:06,402 --> 00:17:07,482</time>
<s>郭嵩焘在日记里面</s>
<time>415_00:17:07,842 --> 00:17:08,561</time>
<s>详细地写了</s>
<time>416_00:17:09,642 --> 00:17:10,362</time>
<s>他对唱片的理解</s>
<time>417_00:17:10,722 --> 00:17:12,161</time>
<s>一个圆盘有个竹片</s>
<time>418_00:17:12,522 --> 00:17:13,602</time>
<s>在上面声音就响</s>
<time>419_00:17:14,321 --> 00:17:15,042</time>
<s>然后特别有意思</s>
<time>420_00:17:15,401 --> 00:17:16,122</time>
<s>然后张德彝在旁边</s>
<time>421_00:17:17,202 --> 00:17:19,002</time>
<s>后来张德彝也是驻英国公使</s>
<time>422_00:17:19,722 --> 00:17:20,442</time>
<s>想想就很神</s>
<time>423_00:17:23,322 --> 00:17:24,401</time>
<s>你看他说吃的</s>
<time>424_00:17:25,122 --> 00:17:26,922</time>
<s>晚餐食鱼生粥</s>
<time>425_00:17:28,002 --> 00:17:30,162</time>
<s>系热米粥内放油炸</s>
<time>426_00:17:31,242 --> 00:17:31,601</time>
<s>炸果</s>
<time>427_00:17:31,962 --> 00:17:33,042</time>
<s>胡萝卜生鱼</s>
<time>428_00:17:33,402 --> 00:17:34,122</time>
<s>香菜</s>
<time>429_00:17:34,482 --> 00:17:35,202</time>
<s>葱蒜姜等</s>
<time>430_00:17:35,922 --> 00:17:37,002</time>
<s>味不甚佳</s>
<time>431_00:17:38,442 --> 00:17:39,162</time>
<s>他讲得特别清楚</s>
<time>432_00:17:41,322 --> 00:17:42,762</time>
<s>他的写作特别充满色彩感</s>
<time>433_00:17:44,562 --> 00:17:45,641</time>
<s>它像镜头</s>
<time>434_00:17:46,002 --> 00:17:46,722</time>
<s>写的东西像镜头</s>
<time>435_00:17:48,161 --> 00:17:48,522</time>
<s>他很个人</s>
<time>436_00:17:48,882 --> 00:17:49,242</time>
<s>他的感受</s>
<time>437_00:17:50,682 --> 00:17:51,401</time>
<s>它是一个个人对世界的</s>
<time>438_00:17:51,762 --> 00:17:52,842</time>
<s>理解的过程</s>
<time>439_00:17:53,922 --> 00:17:54,282</time>
<s>所以不知道当时锺先生</s>
<time>440_00:17:54,641 --> 00:17:55,722</time>
<s>看到的时候什么感觉</s>
<time>441_00:17:57,161 --> 00:17:57,882</time>
<s>其实对于锺先生来讲</s>
