<time>1302_00:43:06,282 --> 00:43:08,082</time>
<s>让这个世界更好更讲道理</s>
<time>1303_00:43:08,802 --> 00:43:10,962</time>
<s>我是比较认同这样的前景的</s>
<time>1304_00:43:12,042 --> 00:43:12,402</time>
<s>虽然</s>
<time>1305_00:43:13,122 --> 00:43:14,562</time>
<s>悲观的人比较深刻</s>
<time>1306_00:43:14,922 --> 00:43:15,642</time>
<s>这是福山最爱说的</s>
<time>1307_00:43:16,722 --> 00:43:18,522</time>
<s>悲观的人显得深刻</s>
<time>1308_00:43:18,882 --> 00:43:21,042</time>
<s>悲观的那个证据很多</s>
<time>1309_00:43:21,402 --> 00:43:22,482</time>
<s>小证据很多</s>
<time>1310_00:43:23,562 --> 00:43:23,922</time>
<s>但是</s>
<time>1311_00:43:25,362 --> 00:43:25,722</time>
<s>这个当然是不知道</s>
<time>1312_00:43:26,082 --> 00:43:26,442</time>
<s>这里边我觉得</s>
<time>1313_00:43:26,802 --> 00:43:28,962</time>
<s>知识和信念的因素都有</s>
<time>1314_00:43:30,042 --> 00:43:32,201</time>
<s>我们确实不能从过去推断未来</s>
<time>1315_00:43:32,562 --> 00:43:34,722</time>
<s>但是你从未来猜测未来</s>
<time>1316_00:43:35,082 --> 00:43:36,522</time>
<s>你是更不可靠的</s>
<time>1317_00:43:37,602 --> 00:43:39,042</time>
<s>所以现在我们就处在这个时代</s>
<time>1318_00:43:39,402 --> 00:43:40,122</time>
<s>你相信</s>
<time>1319_00:43:41,562 --> 00:43:42,282</time>
<s>施密特</s>
<time>1320_00:43:43,721 --> 00:43:44,802</time>
<s>你相信那个冲撞的</s>
<time>1321_00:43:45,522 --> 00:43:46,602</time>
<s>敌我之间</s>
<time>1322_00:43:46,962 --> 00:43:47,682</time>
<s>施密特当然深刻</s>
<time>1323_00:43:48,042 --> 00:43:48,402</time>
<s>但是有时候我会说</s>
<time>1324_00:43:48,761 --> 00:43:50,562</time>
<s>我们明明知道人性有这么复杂</s>
<time>1325_00:43:50,922 --> 00:43:51,642</time>
<s>特别有这么多暗面</s>
<time>1326_00:43:52,002 --> 00:43:52,722</time>
<s>尽管如此</s>
<time>1327_00:43:53,082 --> 00:43:54,882</time>
<s>你相信人类会斗争会厮杀</s>
<time>1328_00:43:55,242 --> 00:43:57,402</time>
<s>难道比相信人类可以共存</s>
<time>1329_00:43:57,762 --> 00:43:59,201</time>
<s>和平相处</s>
<time>1330_00:43:59,562 --> 00:44:00,282</time>
<s>更深刻吗</s>
<time>1331_00:44:12,522 --> 00:44:13,962</time>
<s>这靠谱吗这句话</s>
<time>1332_00:44:15,402 --> 00:44:16,122</time>
<s>我觉得这些词</s>
<time>1333_00:44:16,482 --> 00:44:18,282</time>
<s>有时候挺让人迷惑的</s>
<time>1334_00:44:18,641 --> 00:44:19,722</time>
<s>以赛亚·柏林不是写那个</s>
<time>1335_00:44:20,082 --> 00:44:21,522</time>
<s>《论自由》里面辩析那个</s>
<time>1336_00:44:21,882 --> 00:44:23,322</time>
<s>消极自由和积极自由</s>
<time>1337_00:44:23,682 --> 00:44:24,761</time>
<s>他有一点是特别重要</s>
<time>1338_00:44:25,122 --> 00:44:26,562</time>
<s>就是说有的时候我们会讲</s>
<time>1339_00:44:26,922 --> 00:44:27,642</time>
<s>我们</s>
<time>1340_00:44:28,002 --> 00:44:28,722</time>
<s>特别约束自己</s>
<time>1341_00:44:29,082 --> 00:44:30,162</time>
<s>反而是朝向自由</s>
<time>1342_00:44:30,522 --> 00:44:31,241</time>
<s>是那种自律</s>
<time>1343_00:44:31,602 --> 00:44:33,042</time>
<s>康德意义上的做自己的主人</s>
<time>1344_00:44:33,402 --> 00:44:34,122</time>
<s>是积极自由</s>
<time>1345_00:44:34,842 --> 00:44:35,922</time>
<s>还有消极自由就是你别管我</s>
<time>1346_00:44:36,281 --> 00:44:37,002</time>
<s>我自己</s>
<time>1347_00:44:37,362 --> 00:44:38,082</time>
<s>愿意干什么</s>
<time>1348_00:44:38,442 --> 00:44:39,522</time>
<s>但是麻烦在于</s>
<time>1349_00:44:40,602 --> 00:44:41,322</time>
<s>这两种自由都会被滥用</s>
<time>1350_00:44:41,681 --> 00:44:42,401</time>
<s>我们知道消极自由滥用</s>
<time>1351_00:44:42,761 --> 00:44:44,202</time>
<s>就是你最后你自己放任了</s>
<time>1352_00:44:44,922 --> 00:44:45,642</time>
<s>然后一塌糊涂</s>
<time>1353_00:44:46,002 --> 00:44:47,082</time>
<s>积极自由</s>
<time>1354_00:44:47,442 --> 00:44:48,522</time>
<s>也会被滥用</s>
<time>1355_00:44:48,882 --> 00:44:51,762</time>
<s>是以自由的名义在压制</s>
<time>1356_00:44:52,122 --> 00:44:52,842</time>
<s>自由是可以有的时候</s>
<time>1357_00:44:53,202 --> 00:44:53,922</time>
<s>是受约束的</s>
<time>1358_00:44:54,281 --> 00:44:55,362</time>
<s>比如说战争的时候</s>
<time>1359_00:44:56,082 --> 00:44:56,802</time>
<s>安全秩序比自由重要</s>
<time>1360_00:44:57,522 --> 00:45:00,402</time>
<s>这是我们付出一点自由来换取</s>
<time>1361_00:45:00,761 --> 00:45:02,201</time>
<s>换取安全换取秩序</s>
<time>1362_00:45:02,562 --> 00:45:03,642</time>
<s>但你不要说</s>
<time>1363_00:45:04,002 --> 00:45:04,721</time>
<s>这没有压抑你的自由</s>
<time>1364_00:45:05,082 --> 00:45:06,522</time>
<s>我们是为了更高的自由</s>
<time>1365_00:45:06,882 --> 00:45:07,602</time>
<s>那才是真正的自由</s>
<time>1366_00:45:07,962 --> 00:45:09,402</time>
<s>他认为这一套东西</s>
<time>1367_00:45:09,762 --> 00:45:11,922</time>
<s>就是所谓概念魔术</s>
<time>1368_00:45:12,282 --> 00:45:13,722</time>
<s>他要特别警惕这个</s>
<time>1369_00:45:14,082 --> 00:45:16,602</time>
<s>这个他是真正的洞见</s>
<time>1370_00:45:16,962 --> 00:45:18,761</time>
<s>大家在996和躺平之间摇摆</s>
<time>1371_00:45:19,122 --> 00:45:20,202</time>
<s>都在积极自由和消极自由</s>
<time>1372_00:45:20,562 --> 00:45:21,281</time>
<s>之间斗争</s>
<time>1373_00:45:24,161 --> 00:45:24,522</time>
<s>真正能躺平</s>
<time>1374_00:45:24,882 --> 00:45:25,962</time>
<s>我觉得是很高的境界</s>
<time>1375_00:45:26,321 --> 00:45:26,682</time>
<s>很难</s>
<time>1376_00:45:27,042 --> 00:45:27,402</time>
<s>真正躺平的人</s>
<time>1377_00:45:27,762 --> 00:45:28,122</time>
<s>你都不知道他在躺</s>
<time>1378_00:45:28,482 --> 00:45:28,842</time>
<s>他不宣言</s>
<time>1379_00:45:30,282 --> 00:45:30,642</time>
<s>我躺平了</s>
<time>1380_00:45:31,002 --> 00:45:32,082</time>
<s>这是一个宣言</s>
<time>1381_00:45:32,442 --> 00:45:33,161</time>
<s>你怎么躺平的</s>
<time>1382_00:45:33,522 --> 00:45:35,322</time>
<s>你还有趴着躺还是仰着躺</s>
<time>1383_00:45:35,682 --> 00:45:36,042</time>
<s>还是什么</s>
<time>1384_00:45:36,762 --> 00:45:37,122</time>
<s>还是撒娇</s>
<time>1385_00:45:44,322 --> 00:45:46,122</time>
<s>社会大众当中绝大多数人</s>
<time>1386_00:45:46,842 --> 00:45:48,641</time>
<s>他们在行动的时候</s>
<time>1387_00:45:49,002 --> 00:45:50,802</time>
<s>背后都有一套想法</s>
<time>1388_00:45:51,162 --> 00:45:52,962</time>
<s>这个想法既是认知的</s>
<time>1389_00:45:53,682 --> 00:45:55,122</time>
<s>又是规范性的</s>
<time>1390_00:45:55,842 --> 00:45:56,922</time>
<s>就是事物是什么样</s>
<time>1391_00:45:57,282 --> 00:45:58,002</time>
<s>应该怎么样</s>
<time>1392_00:45:59,082 --> 00:45:59,802</time>
<s>过人行道</s>
<time>1393_00:46:00,522 --> 00:46:01,962</time>
<s>你是不是应该看红绿灯</s>
<time>1394_00:46:02,681 --> 00:46:03,402</time>
<s>着装是得体的吗</s>
<time>1395_00:46:04,482 --> 00:46:05,202</time>
<s>小到这样的事情</s>
<time>1396_00:46:05,562 --> 00:46:06,642</time>
<s>大到比如说</s>
<time>1397_00:46:07,002 --> 00:46:08,442</time>
<s>大家都相信鬼神的时代</s>
<time>1398_00:46:08,802 --> 00:46:11,682</time>
<s>那你就是人就会按照存在着鬼</s>
<time>1399_00:46:12,042 --> 00:46:13,122</time>
<s>特别看黄道吉日</s>
<time>1400_00:46:13,482 --> 00:46:15,642</time>
<s>要求保佑的什么</s>
<time>1401_00:46:16,002 --> 00:46:17,802</time>
<s>它就是支配你的行动</s>
<time>1402_00:46:18,161 --> 00:46:19,602</time>
<s>但这个想法可以是</s>
<time>1403_00:46:19,962 --> 00:46:21,042</time>
<s>以故事的方式</s>
<time>1404_00:46:21,402 --> 00:46:23,202</time>
<s>非理论的方式表达出来的</s>
<time>1405_00:46:23,562 --> 00:46:24,282</time>
<s>而且它是普遍</s>
<time>1406_00:46:24,642 --> 00:46:26,442</time>
<s>就是非常深入人心的</s>
<time>1407_00:46:27,161 --> 00:46:28,602</time>
<s>这就是社会想象</s>
<time>1408_00:46:29,322 --> 00:46:30,402</time>
<s>社会想象</s>
<time>1409_00:46:30,762 --> 00:46:31,842</time>
<s>它实际上在支配你</s>
<time>1410_00:46:32,202 --> 00:46:33,281</time>
<s>那么这时候我们用社会想象</s>
<time>1411_00:46:33,642 --> 00:46:34,362</time>
<s>这个概念就可以</s>
<time>1412_00:46:34,722 --> 00:46:36,162</time>
<s>来把握这个时代的</s>
<time>1413_00:46:36,522 --> 00:46:37,962</time>
<s>基本的一个特征</s>
<time>1414_00:46:38,322 --> 00:46:39,402</time>
<s>精神上的特征</s>
<time>1415_00:46:40,122 --> 00:46:41,201</time>
<s>那比如说996什么</s>
<time>1416_00:46:41,562 --> 00:46:44,082</time>
<s>内卷躺平这些流行词汇</s>
<time>1417_00:46:45,162 --> 00:46:46,242</time>
<s>它们其实也可以</s>
<time>1418_00:46:46,602 --> 00:46:47,322</time>
<s>定义成某种社会想象</s>
<time>1419_00:46:48,042 --> 00:46:50,202</time>
<s>我觉得就是像这种新词出现</s>
<time>1420_00:46:50,562 --> 00:46:52,002</time>
<s>特别是这种流行词</s>
<time>1421_00:46:52,362 --> 00:46:54,162</time>
<s>它那么广泛的传播</s>
<time>1422_00:46:54,522 --> 00:46:55,241</time>
<s>它往往是一种标志</s>
<time>1423_00:46:55,602 --> 00:46:57,042</time>
<s>是社会想象开始转变了</s>
<time>1424_00:46:57,762 --> 00:46:58,842</time>
<s>九十年代</s>
<time>1425_00:46:59,202 --> 00:46:59,922</time>
<s>我们比较能接受</s>
<time>1426_00:47:00,282 --> 00:47:01,721</time>
<s>就是说所有的成果</s>
<time>1427_00:47:02,082 --> 00:47:03,161</time>
<s>只要你努力就会得来</s>
<time>1428_00:47:03,522 --> 00:47:05,321</time>
<s>就是你要打拼</s>
<time>1429_00:47:06,402 --> 00:47:07,122</time>
<s>要拼搏</s>
<time>1430_00:47:07,482 --> 00:47:08,202</time>
<s>然后总会有回报</s>
<time>1431_00:47:08,922 --> 00:47:10,002</time>
<s>那个时候哪怕996</s>
<time>1432_00:47:10,362 --> 00:47:11,442</time>
<s>我们是可以接受的</s>
<time>1433_00:47:12,161 --> 00:47:12,882</time>
<s>对那时候广告语都是</s>
<time>1434_00:47:13,241 --> 00:47:13,962</time>
<s>什么人头马一开</s>
<time>1435_00:47:14,322 --> 00:47:14,682</time>
<s>好事自然来</s>
<time>1436_00:47:16,122 --> 00:47:17,202</time>
<s>然后就是一切都更快</s>
<time>1437_00:47:18,642 --> 00:47:20,082</time>
<s>就是它的那个背景</s>
<time>1438_00:47:21,882 --> 00:47:22,241</time>
<s>变化了</s>
<time>1439_00:47:22,602 --> 00:47:23,682</time>
<s>好多期待</s>
<time>1440_00:47:24,402 --> 00:47:26,202</time>
<s>和现实间落空了</s>
<time>1441_00:47:27,642 --> 00:47:28,362</time>
<s>然后我们就开始怀疑</s>
<time>1442_00:47:28,722 --> 00:47:30,162</time>
<s>那样一套论述</s>
<time>1443_00:47:30,522 --> 00:47:31,241</time>
<s>那样的叙事</s>
<time>1444_00:47:31,602 --> 00:47:33,042</time>
<s>996第一它真的</s>
<time>1445_00:47:34,122 --> 00:47:35,201</time>
<s>能够兑现它的许诺吗</s>
<time>1446_00:47:35,922 --> 00:47:36,642</time>
<s>它正当吗</s>
<time>1447_00:47:37,002 --> 00:47:38,802</time>
<s>第三我加入这个游戏</s>
<time>1448_00:47:39,522 --> 00:47:40,962</time>
<s>哪怕成功了</s>
<time>1449_00:47:41,682 --> 00:47:42,402</time>
<s>对我真的是好的吗</s>
<time>1450_00:47:42,762 --> 00:47:44,202</time>
<s>所有这个东西开始变化</s>
<time>1451_00:47:44,562 --> 00:47:45,282</time>
<s>然后我是不是</s>
<time>1452_00:47:45,642 --> 00:47:46,361</time>
<s>可以退出这个游戏</s>
<time>1453_00:47:46,722 --> 00:47:48,522</time>
<s>退出意味着躺平吗</s>
<time>1454_00:47:48,882 --> 00:47:49,602</time>
<s>或者在躺平</s>
<time>1455_00:47:49,962 --> 00:47:50,682</time>
<s>和996之间</s>
<time>1456_00:47:51,042 --> 00:47:52,121</time>
<s>我有其它选择吗</s>
<time>1457_00:47:52,842 --> 00:47:53,202</time>
<s>这个问题看完</s>
<time>1458_00:47:53,562 --> 00:47:55,002</time>
<s>也就是说原先凝固的</s>
<time>1459_00:47:55,362 --> 00:47:56,082</time>
<s>某种社会想象</s>
<time>1460_00:47:56,442 --> 00:47:57,162</time>
<s>它开始松动</s>
<time>1461_00:47:57,522 --> 00:47:58,602</time>
<s>甚至开始分崩离析</s>
<time>1462_00:47:59,322 --> 00:48:01,842</time>
<s>它诉诸一种新的社会想象的变化</s>
<time>1463_00:48:02,202 --> 00:48:03,642</time>
<s>这个在历史上发生过很多次</s>
<time>1464_00:48:04,722 --> 00:48:05,082</time>
<s>就比如说</s>
<time>1465_00:48:05,442 --> 00:48:06,522</time>
<s>在有些时刻</s>
<time>1466_00:48:06,882 --> 00:48:07,962</time>
<s>会是一种</s>
<time>1467_00:48:09,042 --> 00:48:10,482</time>
<s>更明确的反思想</s>
<time>1468_00:48:11,201 --> 00:48:12,281</time>
<s>或者反智的年代</s>
<time>1469_00:48:12,642 --> 00:48:13,362</time>
<s>比如你在十九世纪</s>
<time>1470_00:48:13,722 --> 00:48:14,802</time>
<s>新一代俄国年轻人</s>
<time>1471_00:48:15,162 --> 00:48:15,882</time>
<s>就会觉得莎士比亚</s>
<time>1472_00:48:16,241 --> 00:48:18,042</time>
<s>所有的学说都抵不上一个靴子</s>
<time>1473_00:48:18,402 --> 00:48:20,202</time>
<s>可能现在在此刻的社会</s>
<time>1474_00:48:20,562 --> 00:48:21,281</time>
<s>似乎也有这些东西</s>
<time>1475_00:48:21,642 --> 00:48:23,442</time>
<s>就是你所有的</s>
<time>1476_00:48:23,802 --> 00:48:24,522</time>
<s>表达或者评论抵不上</s>
<time>1477_00:48:24,882 --> 00:48:27,042</time>
<s>你做的任何一个具体的事情</s>
<time>1478_00:48:27,402 --> 00:48:27,761</time>
<s>作为一个个体</s>
<time>1479_00:48:28,122 --> 00:48:29,202</time>
<s>比如你真在一个潮流</s>
<time>1480_00:48:29,562 --> 00:48:30,282</time>
<s>突然相反的一个时候</s>
<time>1481_00:48:30,642 --> 00:48:31,362</time>
<s>如何真的</s>
<time>1482_00:48:32,802 --> 00:48:33,162</time>
<s>真能够做到</s>
<time>1483_00:48:33,882 --> 00:48:36,042</time>
<s>所有人都说这是黑的情况下</s>
<time>1484_00:48:36,402 --> 00:48:37,482</time>
<s>你仍然知道这是白的</s>
<time>1485_00:48:37,842 --> 00:48:38,562</time>
<s>甚至坚持住这件事情</s>
<time>1486_00:48:40,002 --> 00:48:40,362</time>
<s>反思不是说</s>
<time>1487_00:48:40,722 --> 00:48:42,162</time>
<s>你就随便能够站出来</s>
<time>1488_00:48:42,522 --> 00:48:44,322</time>
<s>把自己的情景客观化</s>
<time>1489_00:48:45,402 --> 00:48:45,762</time>
<s>反思的时候</s>
<time>1490_00:48:46,122 --> 00:48:48,282</time>
<s>反思的位置</s>
<time>1491_00:48:48,642 --> 00:48:50,442</time>
<s>所需要的那些资源</s>
<time>1492_00:48:51,522 --> 00:48:52,242</time>
<s>那种视角</s>
<time>1493_00:48:52,602 --> 00:48:53,682</time>
<s>那个是怎么获得的</s>
<time>1494_00:48:54,761 --> 00:48:55,482</time>
<s>抽离出来</s>
<time>1495_00:48:55,842 --> 00:48:57,282</time>
<s>抽离出这个社会主流</s>
<time>1496_00:48:57,642 --> 00:48:58,722</time>
<s>是因为社会的边缘</s>
<time>1497_00:48:59,082 --> 00:49:01,241</time>
<s>社会的多样性以及外部社会</s>
<time>1498_00:49:01,962 --> 00:49:04,122</time>
<s>它给了你那些资源</s>
<time>1499_00:49:04,482 --> 00:49:05,201</time>
<s>那些视角</s>
<time>1500_00:49:05,562 --> 00:49:08,082</time>
<s>使得你有能力</s>
<time>1501_00:49:08,442 --> 00:49:09,162</time>
<s>可以对那个主流进行反思</s>
<time>1502_00:49:09,522 --> 00:49:10,602</time>
<s>这是可能的</s>
<time>1503_00:49:12,761 --> 00:49:13,482</time>
<s>也就说我第一个问题是说</s>
<time>1504_00:49:13,842 --> 00:49:15,282</time>
<s>我在想这些人怎么可能</s>
<time>1505_00:49:16,002 --> 00:49:17,802</time>
<s>他们需要独特的资源</s>
<time>1506_00:49:18,162 --> 00:49:18,882</time>
<s>这个资源可能是</s>
<time>1507_00:49:20,322 --> 00:49:22,842</time>
<s>在社会内部的异端当中获取的</s>
<time>1508_00:49:23,201 --> 00:49:24,642</time>
<s>可能在这个社会外部的资源当中</s>
<time>1509_00:49:25,362 --> 00:49:25,722</time>
<s>这是一个</s>
<time>1510_00:49:26,082 --> 00:49:27,882</time>
<s>第二个就是判断的负担</s>
<time>1511_00:49:29,682 --> 00:49:31,482</time>
<s>就是说特立独行的人</s>
<time>1512_00:49:31,842 --> 00:49:34,002</time>
<s>他永远是有一个风险的</s>
<time>1513_00:49:34,722 --> 00:49:35,802</time>
<s>你的反潮流</s>
<time>1514_00:49:36,162 --> 00:49:37,962</time>
<s>可能是代表了一个更好的</s>
<time>1515_00:49:38,681 --> 00:49:40,482</time>
<s>对公共生活和对你个人</s>
<time>1516_00:49:40,842 --> 00:49:42,642</time>
<s>可能都是更好的一种可能性</s>
<time>1517_00:49:43,002 --> 00:49:45,522</time>
<s>你在把那个可能性揭示出来</s>
<time>1518_00:49:46,242 --> 00:49:48,402</time>
<s>或者说在开启那个通向更好</s>
<time>1519_00:49:48,762 --> 00:49:49,482</time>
<s>未来的一个道路</s>
<time>1520_00:49:50,202 --> 00:49:51,282</time>
<s>但也可能是邪恶</s>
<time>1521_00:49:52,362 --> 00:49:53,802</time>
<s>希特勒在当时也是少数人</s>
<time>1522_00:49:54,522 --> 00:49:55,602</time>
<s>开始的时候</s>
<time>1523_00:49:56,322 --> 00:49:56,682</time>
<s>所以这里边有一个</s>
<time>1524_00:49:57,042 --> 00:49:58,482</time>
<s>巨大的判断负担</s>
<time>1525_00:49:59,922 --> 00:50:00,642</time>
<s>这个问题非常难</s>
<time>1526_00:50:01,002 --> 00:50:01,722</time>
<s>这个判断的负担</s>
<time>1527_00:50:02,082 --> 00:50:03,162</time>
<s>最后可能是</s>
<time>1528_00:50:03,522 --> 00:50:05,682</time>
<s>历史发展了</s>
<time>1529_00:50:06,042 --> 00:50:07,122</time>
<s>有一个后知之明</s>
<time>1530_00:50:08,922 --> 00:50:09,642</time>
<s>来做出判断</s>
<time>1531_00:50:10,362 --> 00:50:12,882</time>
<s>也可能就是胜利者的</s>
<time>1532_00:50:13,242 --> 00:50:13,602</time>
<s>这样一个判断</s>
<time>1533_00:50:15,762 --> 00:50:17,202</time>
<s>如果粗暴一点讲</s>
<time>1534_00:50:18,282 --> 00:50:19,362</time>
<s>给你个人一个机会</s>
<time>1535_00:50:19,722 --> 00:50:20,802</time>
<s>创造一种社会想象</s>
<time>1536_00:50:21,882 --> 00:50:22,962</time>
<s>然后这是你一个期待的</s>
<time>1537_00:50:23,322 --> 00:50:23,682</time>
<s>社会的样子</s>
<time>1538_00:50:24,402 --> 00:50:25,482</time>
<s>会是什么样的一个社会想象</s>
<time>1539_00:50:26,922 --> 00:50:27,642</time>
<s>我仍然相信</s>
<time>1540_00:50:29,802 --> 00:50:30,882</time>
<s>这个就像以赛亚柏林说的</s>
<time>1541_00:50:31,242 --> 00:50:31,962</time>
<s>价值是多元的</s>
<time>1542_00:50:33,402 --> 00:50:35,202</time>
<s>我们对生活的感知</s>
<time>1543_00:50:35,562 --> 00:50:35,922</time>
<s>其实</s>
<time>1544_00:50:36,282 --> 00:50:37,722</time>
<s>柏林说服我或者打动我的一点</s>
<time>1545_00:50:38,802 --> 00:50:39,162</time>
<s>就是说对</s>
<time>1546_00:50:39,522 --> 00:50:41,322</time>
<s>就是第一我们价值观其实</s>
<time>1547_00:50:41,682 --> 00:50:42,042</time>
<s>激</s>
<time>1548_00:50:42,402 --> 00:50:43,842</time>
<s>它叫价值观是个复数</s>
<time>1549_00:50:44,562 --> 00:50:45,282</time>
<s>但是这里面</s>
<time>1550_00:50:45,642 --> 00:50:46,722</time>
<s>我们要分清虚无主义</s>
<time>1551_00:50:47,082 --> 00:50:48,162</time>
<s>相对主义</s>
<time>1552_00:50:49,242 --> 00:50:49,962</time>
<s>多元主义的区别</s>
<time>1553_00:50:50,682 --> 00:50:51,762</time>
<s>多元主义意思是说</s>
<time>1554_00:50:52,482 --> 00:50:53,922</time>
<s>我们真的是有不同的</s>
<time>1555_00:50:54,282 --> 00:50:55,722</time>
<s>可取的生活方式</s>
<time>1556_00:50:56,802 --> 00:50:57,882</time>
<s>有五种八种</s>
<time>1557_00:50:58,962 --> 00:50:59,682</time>
<s>价值观</s>
<time>1558_00:51:00,762 --> 00:51:01,482</time>
<s>但是一定有</s>
<time>1559_00:51:02,202 --> 00:51:04,002</time>
<s>错的价值或者非价值</s>
<time>1560_00:51:04,362 --> 00:51:05,082</time>
<s>反价值</s>
<time>1561_00:51:05,442 --> 00:51:07,242</time>
<s>如果你认为所有的价值完全一样</s>
<time>1562_00:51:07,602 --> 00:51:09,042</time>
<s>就是极端的相对主义</s>
<time>1563_00:51:09,402 --> 00:51:10,482</time>
<s>那就导致虚无主义</s>
<time>1564_00:51:10,842 --> 00:51:11,562</time>
<s>全世界七十亿个人</s>
<time>1565_00:51:13,002 --> 00:51:14,082</time>
<s>不是说七十亿种价值</s>
<time>1566_00:51:14,442 --> 00:51:14,802</time>
<s>不可能的</s>
<time>1567_00:51:15,522 --> 00:51:16,602</time>
<s>我们可能就几十种价值</s>
<time>1568_00:51:16,962 --> 00:51:18,402</time>
<s>最多一百多种价值观</s>
<time>1569_00:51:18,762 --> 00:51:20,562</time>
<s>所以我们有一些共通的人性</s>
<time>1570_00:51:21,642 --> 00:51:23,082</time>
<s>比如说自由平等</s>
<time>1571_00:51:23,442 --> 00:51:23,802</time>
<s>人的尊严</s>
<time>1572_00:51:24,522 --> 00:51:25,242</time>
<s>人道等等</s>
<time>1573_00:51:25,962 --> 00:51:26,322</time>
<s>这个</s>
<time>1574_00:51:27,402 --> 00:51:29,562</time>
<s>我认为它奠定了某种让我们</s>
<time>1575_00:51:30,642 --> 00:51:32,082</time>
<s>诉诸本源的时候</s>
<time>1576_00:51:32,442 --> 00:51:34,242</time>
<s>那个始源基础的共同可能</s>
<time>1577_00:51:34,962 --> 00:51:35,322</time>
<s>也就是说</s>
<time>1578_00:51:36,042 --> 00:51:37,842</time>
<s>你哪怕杀人有一个理由</s>
<time>1579_00:51:38,202 --> 00:51:40,002</time>
<s>就有一个你自已的借口</s>
<time>1580_00:51:40,722 --> 00:51:42,162</time>
<s>这仍然是可以理解的</s>
<time>1581_00:51:42,522 --> 00:51:42,882</time>
<s>你不能说</s>
<time>1582_00:51:45,042 --> 00:51:45,762</time>
<s>就和踢一块石头一样</s>
<time>1583_00:51:46,122 --> 00:51:47,562</time>
<s>这样的人就完全不可理喻</s>
<time>1584_00:51:47,922 --> 00:51:48,282</time>
<s>他就是</s>
<time>1585_00:51:48,642 --> 00:51:49,362</time>
<s>他是</s>
<time>1586_00:51:49,722 --> 00:51:50,442</time>
<s>他是人类之外的</s>
<time>1587_00:51:50,802 --> 00:51:52,242</time>
<s>像一个其他的物种一样</s>
<time>1588_00:51:52,602 --> 00:51:53,682</time>
<s>没有这样的人类存在</s>
<time>1589_00:51:56,202 --> 00:51:56,922</time>
<s>到最后</s>
<time>1590_00:51:57,642 --> 00:51:58,362</time>
<s>这个共同的</s>
<time>1591_00:51:58,722 --> 00:51:59,442</time>
<s>共同的人性</s>
<time>1592_00:51:59,802 --> 00:52:00,522</time>
<s>也就是共同的一些</s>
<time>1593_00:52:01,242 --> 00:52:02,322</time>
<s>我们现在讲共同价值</s>
<time>1594_00:52:02,682 --> 00:52:03,402</time>
<s>它仍然是重要的</s>
<time>1595_00:52:03,762 --> 00:52:04,482</time>
<s>而且我们能够分享</s>
<time>1596_00:52:04,842 --> 00:52:05,922</time>
<s>能够彼此理解</s>
<time>1597_00:52:06,282 --> 00:52:07,362</time>
<s>只是有些冲突</s>
<time>1598_00:52:07,722 --> 00:52:09,162</time>
<s>是在具体的情景当中</s>
<time>1599_00:52:09,522 --> 00:52:10,242</time>
<s>哪个更优先</s>
<time>1600_00:52:10,602 --> 00:52:11,322</time>
<s>比如说自由和秩序</s>
<time>1601_00:52:11,682 --> 00:52:13,122</time>
<s>我们就觉得</s>
<time>1602_00:52:13,482 --> 00:52:14,562</time>
<s>我们的文化当中</s>
<time>1603_00:52:15,282 --> 00:52:16,362</time>
<s>在应对疫情的时候看出来</s>
<time>1604_00:52:16,722 --> 00:52:18,522</time>
<s>我们比较接受把秩序</s>
<time>1605_00:52:19,242 --> 00:52:20,682</time>
<s>在这种情况下</s>
<time>1606_00:52:21,042 --> 00:52:22,482</time>
<s>高于个人自由</s>
<time>1607_00:52:22,842 --> 00:52:23,202</time>
<s>我们认为这是</s>
<time>1608_00:52:23,562 --> 00:52:25,002</time>
<s>非常可以接受的</s>
<time>1609_00:52:25,362 --> 00:52:26,442</time>
<s>好像西方的某些人</s>
<time>1610_00:52:26,802 --> 00:52:27,882</time>
<s>他们就比较难接受</s>
<time>1611_00:52:28,242 --> 00:52:28,962</time>
<s>直到</s>
<time>1612_00:52:30,042 --> 00:52:31,482</time>
<s>遭受了很沉重的教训的时候</s>
<time>1613_00:52:31,842 --> 00:52:32,922</time>
<s>他们会重新考虑这个平衡</s>
<time>1614_00:52:34,002 --> 00:52:35,082</time>
<s>那么这就是人类的常态</s>
<time>1615_00:52:35,802 --> 00:52:37,602</time>
<s>但有的时候它会</s>
<time>1616_00:52:38,682 --> 00:52:40,842</time>
<s>共同的人性也解决不了</s>
<time>1617_00:52:41,202 --> 00:52:42,282</time>
<s>那些严重的冲突</s>
<time>1618_00:52:43,722 --> 00:52:44,442</time>
<s>但是人类</s>
<time>1619_00:52:44,802 --> 00:52:45,882</time>
<s>你说已经好多了</s>
<time>1620_00:52:47,322 --> 00:52:47,682</time>
<s>有学者说就像</s>
<time>1621_00:52:48,042 --> 00:52:50,202</time>
<s>英国脱欧这种事情</s>
<time>1622_00:52:50,562 --> 00:52:52,362</time>
<s>放在两三百年前就是</s>
<time>1623_00:52:53,802 --> 00:52:54,162</time>
<s>千百万人</s>
<time>1624_00:52:54,522 --> 00:52:55,242</time>
<s>就打起来了是吧</s>
<time>1625_00:52:55,602 --> 00:52:56,322</time>
<s>流血无数的事</s>
<time>1626_00:52:57,042 --> 00:52:57,402</time>
<s>所以人类还是</s>
<time>1627_00:52:58,482 --> 00:52:59,922</time>
<s>有某种改善改良</s>
<time>1628_00:53:00,282 --> 00:53:00,642</time>
<s>我觉得是这样</s>
<time>1629_00:53:01,722 --> 00:53:02,802</time>
<s>那比如说怎么</s>
<time>1630_00:53:04,242 --> 00:53:06,762</time>
<s>在一个相对主义泛滥的</s>
<time>1631_00:53:07,122 --> 00:53:07,482</time>
<s>一个社会里</s>
<time>1632_00:53:09,282 --> 00:53:11,082</time>
<s>怎么去慢慢地重建一个</s>
<time>1633_00:53:12,162 --> 00:53:13,242</time>
<s>既是尊重多样价值</s>
<time>1634_00:53:13,602 --> 00:53:15,402</time>
<s>但是又有它的一个标准的</s>
<time>1635_00:53:15,762 --> 00:53:16,842</time>
<s>这么一个新的东西</s>
<time>1636_00:53:17,202 --> 00:53:19,362</time>
<s>这是我们都要面对的一个问题</s>
<time>1637_00:53:19,722 --> 00:53:21,162</time>
<s>它比如说</s>
<time>1638_00:53:21,522 --> 00:53:22,242</time>
<s>我们如果需要具体的步骤</s>
<time>1639_00:53:23,322 --> 00:53:24,042</time>
<s>它怎么发生</s>
<time>1640_00:53:25,482 --> 00:53:25,842</time>
<s>我们有一个方式就是</s>
<time>1641_00:53:26,202 --> 00:53:26,562</time>
<s>各自过</s>
<time>1642_00:53:26,922 --> 00:53:27,642</time>
<s>每个人相对的</s>
<time>1643_00:53:28,002 --> 00:53:29,082</time>
<s>每个人过自已生活</s>
<time>1644_00:53:29,442 --> 00:53:31,242</time>
<s>我在想如果元宇宙可能的话</s>
<time>1645_00:53:31,602 --> 00:53:32,322</time>
<s>就一人自己在这个元宇宙里</s>
<time>1646_00:53:32,682 --> 00:53:33,042</time>
<s>你过</s>
<time>1647_00:53:33,402 --> 00:53:34,122</time>
<s>彼此相安无事</s>
<time>1648_00:53:34,482 --> 00:53:34,842</time>
<s>你过你的</s>
<time>1649_00:53:35,202 --> 00:53:35,562</time>
<s>你愿意在</s>
<time>1650_00:53:35,922 --> 00:53:36,642</time>
<s>感觉找到了一个新的殖民地</s>
<time>1651_00:53:37,002 --> 00:53:37,362</time>
<s>对</s>
<time>1652_00:53:37,722 --> 00:53:38,802</time>
<s>而且你就是国王</s>
<time>1653_00:53:39,162 --> 00:53:39,882</time>
<s>你能够决定那个世界的规则</s>
<time>1654_00:53:40,242 --> 00:53:40,962</time>
<s>你愿意怎么样</s>
<time>1655_00:53:41,322 --> 00:53:42,762</time>
<s>你愿意变成暴君也可以</s>
<time>1656_00:53:43,122 --> 00:53:44,202</time>
<s>你愿意做一个共和主义者</s>
<time>1657_00:53:44,562 --> 00:53:44,922</time>
<s>也可以</s>
<time>1658_00:53:45,282 --> 00:53:47,442</time>
<s>当年在那个四马路上</s>
<time>1659_00:53:47,802 --> 00:53:49,242</time>
<s>谭嗣同就跟梁启超夏曾佑</s>
<time>1660_00:53:49,602 --> 00:53:49,962</time>
<s>他们这么聊天</s>
<time>1661_00:53:50,322 --> 00:53:51,762</time>
<s>他说听说世界上有好多星球</s>
<time>1662_00:53:52,122 --> 00:53:52,482</time>
<s>将来我们每一个人</s>
<time>1663_00:53:52,842 --> 00:53:53,202</time>
<s>都占一个星球</s>
<time>1664_00:53:53,562 --> 00:53:53,922</time>
<s>自己过</s>
<time>1665_00:53:54,282 --> 00:53:55,722</time>
<s>就没有这些伦理压迫了</s>
<time>1666_00:53:56,082 --> 00:53:56,802</time>
<s>有的时候我听</s>
<time>1667_00:53:57,162 --> 00:53:58,242</time>
<s>我听人家说</s>
<time>1668_00:53:58,962 --> 00:54:02,562</time>
<s>美国在前段时间不是因为大选</s>
<time>1669_00:54:03,282 --> 00:54:04,002</time>
<s>分裂得很厉害</s>
<time>1670_00:54:05,082 --> 00:54:05,802</time>
<s>有的人说最好</s>
<time>1671_00:54:06,882 --> 00:54:07,602</time>
<s>有两个美国</s>
<time>1672_00:54:08,322 --> 00:54:09,042</time>
<s>就是你喜欢川普的人</s>
<time>1673_00:54:09,402 --> 00:54:10,122</time>
<s>去变一个美国</s>
<time>1674_00:54:10,482 --> 00:54:10,842</time>
<s>我们就和你分开</s>
<time>1675_00:54:11,202 --> 00:54:12,642</time>
<s>相安无事</s>
<time>1676_00:54:13,002 --> 00:54:13,722</time>
<s>如果元宇宙可能的话</s>
<time>1677_00:54:14,082 --> 00:54:14,802</time>
<s>这是一个解决方案</s>
<time>1678_00:54:15,882 --> 00:54:16,602</time>
<s>我很怀疑</s>
<time>1679_00:54:16,962 --> 00:54:18,402</time>
<s>这真的是一个现实解决方案</s>
<time>1680_00:54:19,122 --> 00:54:20,562</time>
<s>一个可能问题是</s>
<time>1681_00:54:20,922 --> 00:54:22,002</time>
<s>我们仍然要有共同生活</s>
<time>1682_00:54:23,082 --> 00:54:23,802</time>
<s>我们不管彼此喜欢不喜欢</s>
<time>1683_00:54:24,162 --> 00:54:25,242</time>
<s>我们生活在一起</s>
<time>1684_00:54:26,322 --> 00:54:26,682</time>
<s>大概率</s>
<time>1685_00:54:27,042 --> 00:54:28,482</time>
<s>我们要生活在同一个星球</s>
<time>1686_00:54:29,202 --> 00:54:30,642</time>
<s>我想罗尔斯写那个</s>
<time>1687_00:54:31,002 --> 00:54:31,362</time>
<s>《政治自由主义》</s>
<time>1688_00:54:31,722 --> 00:54:32,442</time>
<s>他的问题意识就是</s>
<time>1689_00:54:32,802 --> 00:54:33,162</time>
<s>他就说</s>
<time>1690_00:54:33,522 --> 00:54:36,402</time>
<s>我们在公共生活中找那个</s>
<time>1691_00:54:36,762 --> 00:54:38,202</time>
<s>所谓重叠的共识</s>
<time>1692_00:54:38,562 --> 00:54:39,642</time>
<s>重叠的共识</s>
<time>1693_00:54:40,002 --> 00:54:40,362</time>
<s>私人生活</s>
<time>1694_00:54:40,722 --> 00:54:41,802</time>
<s>你可以有更多的自由</s>
<time>1695_00:54:42,522 --> 00:54:43,602</time>
<s>这样一个安排</s>
<time>1696_00:54:45,042 --> 00:54:46,122</time>
<s>有很大的影响</s>
<time>1697_00:54:46,482 --> 00:54:47,202</time>
<s>但也有很多批评</s>
<time>1698_00:54:47,922 --> 00:54:49,002</time>
<s>你公共的生活的部分</s>
<time>1699_00:54:49,362 --> 00:54:51,162</time>
<s>和私人生活是不可能分开的</s>
<time>1700_00:54:52,242 --> 00:54:52,962</time>
<s>你不能说在私人生活中</s>
<time>1701_00:54:53,322 --> 00:54:54,762</time>
<s>我是一个特别等级的</s>
<time>1702_00:54:55,122 --> 00:54:56,562</time>
<s>特别男女不平等的</s>
<time>1703_00:54:56,922 --> 00:54:57,642</time>
<s>在公共生活当中我会</s>
<time>1704_00:54:58,002 --> 00:54:58,722</time>
<s>特别尊重女性</s>
<time>1705_00:54:59,082 --> 00:54:59,802</time>
<s>这很难做</s>
<time>1706_00:55:01,602 --> 00:55:02,322</time>
<s>第二个这个</s>
<time>1707_00:55:02,682 --> 00:55:04,122</time>
<s>有的时候我们重叠的那部分共识</s>
<time>1708_00:55:04,482 --> 00:55:05,202</time>
<s>根本就不重要</s>
<time>1709_00:55:05,562 --> 00:55:06,282</time>
<s>我们都喜欢吃辣</s>
<time>1710_00:55:06,642 --> 00:55:07,722</time>
<s>这是我们重叠的共识</s>
<time>1711_00:55:08,082 --> 00:55:09,162</time>
<s>可是根本没用</s>
<time>1712_00:55:11,322 --> 00:55:12,042</time>
<s>我觉得</s>
<time>1713_00:55:14,922 --> 00:55:16,362</time>
<s>那样一种想法</s>
<time>1714_00:55:16,722 --> 00:55:18,882</time>
<s>就回到一个完美秩序的想法</s>
<time>1715_00:55:19,242 --> 00:55:20,322</time>
<s>可能是一个幻觉</s>
<time>1716_00:55:22,482 --> 00:55:24,282</time>
<s>我爱人是一个非常就是</s>
<time>1717_00:55:24,642 --> 00:55:26,442</time>
<s>对秩序有洁癖的人</s>
<time>1718_00:55:27,162 --> 00:55:28,602</time>
<s>就是所有东西都要</s>
<time>1719_00:55:28,962 --> 00:55:29,682</time>
<s>在自己的位置上</s>
<time>1720_00:55:30,042 --> 00:55:31,122</time>
<s>要不然她就很不安</s>
<time>1721_00:55:31,482 --> 00:55:31,842</time>
<s>所以你只能在家里</s>
<time>1722_00:55:32,202 --> 00:55:32,562</time>
<s>靠消极自由是吧</s>
<time>1723_00:55:33,642 --> 00:55:34,362</time>
<s>是这样</s>
<time>1724_00:55:34,722 --> 00:55:35,082</time>
<s>但是后来她</s>
<time>1725_00:55:35,442 --> 00:55:36,882</time>
<s>我们在讨论就是说</s>
<time>1726_00:55:37,242 --> 00:55:38,682</time>
<s>你这样一种生活方式</s>
<time>1727_00:55:39,042 --> 00:55:40,122</time>
<s>容错率可能太低了</s>
<time>1728_00:55:40,482 --> 00:55:41,562</time>
<s>最后你会很焦虑</s>
<time>1729_00:55:42,282 --> 00:55:43,362</time>
<s>如果把这个作为一个非常</s>
<time>1730_00:55:44,442 --> 00:55:45,882</time>
<s>强烈的要求和期待</s>
