<time>2_00:00:12,267 --> 00:00:12,633</time>
<s>大家好</s>
<time>3_00:00:12,967 --> 00:00:13,667</time>
<s>我是黄盈盈</s>
<time>4_00:00:14,033 --> 00:00:17,167</time>
<s>我今天的讲题是小姐研究二十年</s>
<time>5_00:00:18,233 --> 00:00:23,467</time>
<s>我的第一次研究是在1999年的寒假</s>
<time>6_00:00:23,833 --> 00:00:24,867</time>
<s>在深圳的下沙</s>
<time>7_00:00:25,567 --> 00:00:26,633</time>
<s>在这样的一个农民楼里面</s>
<time>8_00:00:27,333 --> 00:00:28,367</time>
<s>就类似这样的农民楼</s>
<time>9_00:00:28,733 --> 00:00:29,767</time>
<s>当时我记得特别清楚</s>
<time>10_00:00:30,133 --> 00:00:30,833</time>
<s>住在501</s>
<time>11_00:00:31,533 --> 00:00:32,933</time>
<s>然后是500块钱一个月</s>
<time>12_00:00:33,633 --> 00:00:35,033</time>
<s>那个楼里基本上住的就是</s>
<time>13_00:00:35,367 --> 00:00:38,167</time>
<s>到深圳去打工的打工妹打工仔</s>
<time>14_00:00:38,533 --> 00:00:39,233</time>
<s>当然也包括小姐</s>
<time>15_00:00:39,933 --> 00:00:43,067</time>
<s>我的楼下是四个妈咪的地盘</s>
<time>16_00:00:43,767 --> 00:00:47,267</time>
<s>在附近的小巷子里至少有十几家小发廊</s>
<time>17_00:00:47,967 --> 00:00:49,733</time>
<s>我的事情基本上就是</s>
<time>18_00:00:50,067 --> 00:00:53,567</time>
<s>在刚开始的时候会在这个巷子里溜来溜去</s>
<time>19_00:00:53,933 --> 00:00:55,333</time>
<s>希望能够认识一个小姐</s>
<time>20_00:00:55,667 --> 00:00:56,367</time>
<s>能够带我坐进发廊</s>
<time>21_00:00:57,067 --> 00:01:00,233</time>
<s>大概在一周左右的时间以后我如愿以偿</s>
<time>22_00:01:00,933 --> 00:01:03,033</time>
<s>后来那些认识的妈咪跟小姐就跟我说</s>
<time>23_00:01:03,367 --> 00:01:04,433</time>
<s>着你吧</s>
<time>24_00:01:04,767 --> 00:01:06,867</time>
<s>在那里天天溜来溜去也不接客</s>
<time>25_00:01:07,233 --> 00:01:09,333</time>
<s>完了看着也不像是便衣</s>
<time>26_00:01:09,667 --> 00:01:10,367</time>
<s>也不像是记者</s>
<time>27_00:01:11,067 --> 00:01:14,233</time>
<s>我们琢磨着你大概就是那个被香港人包养的二奶</s>
<time>28_00:01:14,933 --> 00:01:15,967</time>
<s>大概就是这样的一个开场</s>
<time>29_00:01:16,667 --> 00:01:20,867</time>
<s>我们师门的田野调查故事写在了这本《我在现场》</s>
<time>30_00:01:21,233 --> 00:01:22,967</time>
<s>出版已经是2017年</s>
<time>31_00:01:23,333 --> 00:01:25,067</time>
<s>在这二十年间</s>
<time>32_00:01:25,433 --> 00:01:28,567</time>
<s>我自己的从一个硕士一年级的学生</s>
<time>33_00:01:28,933 --> 00:01:31,367</time>
<s>现在是留校任教</s>
<time>34_00:01:31,733 --> 00:01:33,833</time>
<s>我的生活发生了蛮大的变化</s>
<time>35_00:01:34,533 --> 00:01:38,367</time>
<s>下沙以及我们去过的红灯区基本上都已经面目全非</s>
<time>36_00:01:39,067 --> 00:01:40,133</time>
<s>小姐的生活</s>
<time>37_00:01:40,467 --> 00:01:41,867</time>
<s>她们的处境又怎么样了呢</s>
<time>38_00:01:42,567 --> 00:01:43,633</time>
<s>我也日常在想</s>
<time>39_00:01:44,333 --> 00:01:46,767</time>
<s>小姐之于我的意义是非常显在的</s>
<time>40_00:01:47,467 --> 00:01:49,567</time>
<s>可是我之于小姐的意义又在哪里</s>
<time>41_00:01:50,267 --> 00:01:52,733</time>
<s>这样的提问已经不仅仅是一个研究的问题</s>
<time>42_00:01:53,433 --> 00:01:54,467</time>
<s>而是一个伦理的拷问</s>
<time>43_00:01:55,167 --> 00:01:56,233</time>
<s>作为一个研究者</s>
<time>44_00:01:56,567 --> 00:02:00,067</time>
<s>我越来越感受到自己能力的局限</s>
<time>45_00:02:00,433 --> 00:02:02,533</time>
<s>以及有一种很深深的无力感</s>
<time>46_00:02:03,233 --> 00:02:04,967</time>
<s>今天之所以还有信心站在这里</s>
<time>47_00:02:05,667 --> 00:02:07,433</time>
<s>大概我自己觉得是至少</s>
<time>48_00:02:07,767 --> 00:02:10,933</time>
<s>这么多年来我还在坚持着一些观察跟思考</s>
<time>49_00:02:11,633 --> 00:02:14,067</time>
<s>当然我也更希望是有更多的人群</s>
<time>50_00:02:14,433 --> 00:02:17,233</time>
<s>能够心平气和地走进这个人群</s>
<time>51_00:02:17,567 --> 00:02:18,633</time>
<s>来了解她们的生活</s>
<time>52_00:02:19,333 --> 00:02:20,367</time>
<s>回看我的研究</s>
<time>53_00:02:20,733 --> 00:02:22,833</time>
<s>基本上是在三个大背景下展开的</s>
<time>54_00:02:23,533 --> 00:02:27,733</time>
<s>1999年到2002年的时候基本上关注的是劳动力市场席</s>
<time>55_00:02:28,067 --> 00:02:31,567</time>
<s>非正规就业职业流动</s>
<time>56_00:02:31,933 --> 00:02:34,033</time>
<s>大概关注这样一些议题</s>
<time>57_00:02:34,733 --> 00:02:35,433</time>
<s>在深圳的时候</s>
<time>58_00:02:35,767 --> 00:02:39,967</time>
<s>我们当时碰到非常多的小姐是来自于四川跟东北</s>
<time>59_00:02:40,667 --> 00:02:42,067</time>
<s>所以20012002年的时候</s>
<time>60_00:02:42,767 --> 00:02:45,233</time>
<s>潘绥铭老师带着我们也去了四川跟东北做调研</s>
<time>61_00:02:45,567 --> 00:02:47,333</time>
<s>在四川我记得特别清楚</s>
<time>62_00:02:47,667 --> 00:02:50,467</time>
<s>当时有一个家里开发廊的男大学生</s>
<time>63_00:02:51,167 --> 00:02:52,233</time>
<s>他就跟我们聊天</s>
<time>64_00:02:52,567 --> 00:02:55,367</time>
<s>说他家里开发廊是什么样的一个感觉</s>
<time>65_00:02:56,067 --> 00:02:57,833</time>
<s>他就跟我们聊起来说</s>
<time>66_00:02:58,167 --> 00:02:59,567</time>
<s>他认为在当地在四川</s>
<time>67_00:03:00,267 --> 00:03:02,033</time>
<s>他觉得那是一个小姐培训基地</s>
<time>68_00:03:02,367 --> 00:03:03,767</time>
<s>小姐到了这之后</s>
<time>69_00:03:04,133 --> 00:03:04,467</time>
<s>从事了这一行</s>
<time>70_00:03:05,167 --> 00:03:07,633</time>
<s>熟悉了之后就开始流到其他地方</s>
<time>71_00:03:07,967 --> 00:03:09,033</time>
<s>比如说流到深圳</s>
<time>72_00:03:09,733 --> 00:03:10,767</time>
<s>那个小镇非常有意思</s>
<time>73_00:03:11,467 --> 00:03:13,933</time>
<s>90年代初的时候因为要招商引资</s>
<time>74_00:03:14,633 --> 00:03:16,033</time>
<s>要建成开发区</s>
<time>75_00:03:16,733 --> 00:03:18,133</time>
<s>可是开发区没有建成</s>
<time>76_00:03:18,467 --> 00:03:19,167</time>
<s>红灯区建成了</s>
<time>77_00:03:20,233 --> 00:03:20,933</time>
<s>后来在东北的时候</s>
<time>78_00:03:21,633 --> 00:03:24,767</time>
<s>在东北那个时候有非常严重的下岗潮</s>
<time>79_00:03:25,133 --> 00:03:28,967</time>
<s>很多的妇女瞬间被甩出了体制之外</s>
<time>80_00:03:29,333 --> 00:03:31,067</time>
<s>相当多的人进入到了性产业</s>
<time>81_00:03:31,433 --> 00:03:32,833</time>
<s>比如说足疗按摩</s>
<time>82_00:03:33,167 --> 00:03:34,233</time>
<s>大概是这样的一个情况</s>
<time>83_00:03:34,933 --> 00:03:36,333</time>
<s>也差不多是在20012002年的时候</s>
<time>84_00:03:36,667 --> 00:03:40,167</time>
<s>我们开始在艾滋病防治的背景下关注</s>
<time>85_00:03:40,533 --> 00:03:44,733</time>
<s>小姐以及缥客人群他们的一些健康疾病相关问题</s>
<time>86_00:03:45,067 --> 00:03:45,767</time>
<s>值得一提的是</s>
<time>87_00:03:46,133 --> 00:03:48,233</time>
<s>2005年的时候我们的研究是</s>
<time>88_00:03:48,567 --> 00:03:49,967</time>
<s>当时不光是关注小姐</s>
<time>89_00:03:50,333 --> 00:03:54,167</time>
<s>当时在四川跟云南大概不同阶层的</s>
<time>90_00:03:54,533 --> 00:03:57,333</time>
<s>形形色色的缥客人群中做了180多个访谈</s>
<time>91_00:03:58,033 --> 00:04:00,133</time>
<s>试图从他们的角度看一看性产业</s>
<time>92_00:04:00,833 --> 00:04:02,567</time>
<s>2010年的时候开始一直到现在</s>
<time>93_00:04:03,267 --> 00:04:04,333</time>
<s>就有一个很大的一个变化</s>
<time>94_00:04:05,033 --> 00:04:06,767</time>
<s>整个环境发生了非常大的变化</s>
<time>95_00:04:07,467 --> 00:04:09,233</time>
<s>大家可能知道是大扫黄</s>
<time>96_00:04:09,933 --> 00:04:13,067</time>
<s>我当时跟潘老师老师我们去了六七个地方</s>
<time>97_00:04:13,433 --> 00:04:15,167</time>
<s>主要去看扫黄带来的影响</s>
<time>98_00:04:15,533 --> 00:04:18,667</time>
<s>包括说产业里边的人如何去应对扫黄这样一件事情席</s>
<time>99_00:04:19,367 --> 00:04:20,767</time>
<s>而扫黄它的效果又怎么样</s>
<time>100_00:04:21,467 --> 00:04:24,267</time>
<s>2014年到现在我跟自己的学生也会关注</s>
<time>101_00:04:24,633 --> 00:04:28,133</time>
<s>服务于小姐人群的那些草根组织他们的发展</s>
<time>102_00:04:28,833 --> 00:04:29,867</time>
<s>他们是非常了不起</s>
<time>103_00:04:30,233 --> 00:04:32,333</time>
<s>但是他们的处境非常地困难</s>
<time>104_00:04:33,033 --> 00:04:36,167</time>
<s>正是在一个跨时空的以及多主题的</s>
<time>105_00:04:36,533 --> 00:04:37,933</time>
<s>这样一个比较与联系中</s>
<time>106_00:04:38,267 --> 00:04:42,133</time>
<s>以及包括这若干年来跟不同的主体的对话中</s>
<time>107_00:04:42,467 --> 00:04:45,267</time>
<s>我觉得可以看到一幅比单一的田野点</s>
<time>108_00:04:45,633 --> 00:04:48,433</time>
<s>可以更为完整更为整体一个小姐景象</s>
<time>109_00:04:49,133 --> 00:04:53,333</time>
<s>这样的一幅图大致可以描绘出小姐的人物关系</s>
<time>110_00:04:53,667 --> 00:04:55,067</time>
<s>或者说是社会网络</s>
<time>111_00:04:55,433 --> 00:04:56,133</time>
<s>大家可以看到</s>
<time>112_00:04:56,467 --> 00:04:57,533</time>
<s>或者说你也能想得到</s>
<time>113_00:04:57,867 --> 00:05:01,033</time>
<s>处在中心位置的是妈咪小姐跟缥客</s>
<time>114_00:05:01,733 --> 00:05:03,467</time>
<s>可是很多人却不会注意到</s>
<time>115_00:05:03,833 --> 00:05:08,033</time>
<s>在这个图里边其实卷入了非常多的社会力量社会主体席</s>
<time>116_00:05:08,367 --> 00:05:09,067</time>
<s>包括研究者</s>
<time>117_00:05:09,433 --> 00:05:09,767</time>
<s>包括警察</s>
<time>118_00:05:10,133 --> 00:05:11,167</time>
<s>包括草根组织的人</s>
<time>119_00:05:11,867 --> 00:05:13,267</time>
<s>也包括小姐的男朋友</s>
<time>120_00:05:13,633 --> 00:05:14,667</time>
<s>以及她老家的人</s>
<time>121_00:05:15,033 --> 00:05:15,733</time>
<s>她的儿女</s>
<time>122_00:05:16,067 --> 00:05:19,233</time>
<s>这样的一些形形色色的人其实都不同程度地</s>
<time>123_00:05:19,567 --> 00:05:20,967</time>
<s>卷入在了红灯区里边</s>
<time>124_00:05:21,667 --> 00:05:23,067</time>
<s>我尤其要提醒一下的是</s>
<time>125_00:05:23,433 --> 00:05:26,567</time>
<s>在这个网络图里边有一群非常重要的人物</s>
<time>126_00:05:27,267 --> 00:05:27,967</time>
<s>但是却经常被忽略</s>
<time>127_00:05:28,667 --> 00:05:29,733</time>
<s>他们就是在这个社区中</s>
<time>128_00:05:30,067 --> 00:05:31,133</time>
<s>小姐的老乡</s>
<time>129_00:05:31,833 --> 00:05:33,933</time>
<s>当然更近一点的是一些邻里</s>
<time>130_00:05:34,267 --> 00:05:35,333</time>
<s>一些红灯区里边</s>
<time>131_00:05:35,667 --> 00:05:37,067</time>
<s>比如说卖鞋的</s>
<time>132_00:05:37,767 --> 00:05:38,467</time>
<s>然后卖穿的</s>
<time>133_00:05:39,167 --> 00:05:39,867</time>
<s>邻里关系</s>
<time>134_00:05:40,233 --> 00:05:41,267</time>
<s>还有一些小诊所</s>
<time>135_00:05:41,633 --> 00:05:44,767</time>
<s>还有后来发展起来的一些旧货买卖市场的人</s>
<time>136_00:05:45,467 --> 00:05:48,267</time>
<s>因为他们跟这个小姐的生活是息息相关的</s>
<time>137_00:05:48,633 --> 00:05:50,733</time>
<s>如果你这个关系要是处理得好</s>
<time>138_00:05:51,067 --> 00:05:52,467</time>
<s>那就会成为一个保护力量</s>
<time>139_00:05:52,833 --> 00:05:53,867</time>
<s>或者是支持型的力量</s>
<time>140_00:05:54,233 --> 00:05:56,333</time>
<s>可是如果你这个关系处理不好</s>
<time>141_00:05:57,033 --> 00:05:58,433</time>
<s>那就会可能成为一个举报者</s>
<time>142_00:05:59,133 --> 00:06:01,567</time>
<s>我不知道大家对于举报是一个什么样的感觉</s>
<time>143_00:06:02,268 --> 00:06:04,734</time>
<s>通常来说抓现场都是因为被举报</s>
<time>144_00:06:05,068 --> 00:06:07,868</time>
<s>所以如果你把这些邻里关系都处理得比较好</s>
<time>145_00:06:08,234 --> 00:06:09,634</time>
<s>那就是一个支持型的力量</s>
<time>146_00:06:09,968 --> 00:06:11,734</time>
<s>相反可能就会是一个举报者</s>
<time>147_00:06:12,434 --> 00:06:15,934</time>
<s>我做小姐研究可能被问到蛮多的一个问题是</s>
<time>148_00:06:16,268 --> 00:06:17,334</time>
<s>中国到底有多少小姐</s>
<time>149_00:06:18,034 --> 00:06:18,734</time>
<s>我没有答案</s>
<time>150_00:06:19,068 --> 00:06:20,468</time>
<s>我算不出来中国有多少小姐</s>
<time>151_00:06:21,168 --> 00:06:23,634</time>
<s>因为我不知道大家对于小姐的定义是什么样的</s>
<time>152_00:06:24,334 --> 00:06:26,768</time>
<s>当然在法律里边有一个说法是说</s>
<time>153_00:06:27,134 --> 00:06:30,968</time>
<s>在不特定的男女之间因为金钱财务的交换</s>
<time>154_00:06:31,334 --> 00:06:32,734</time>
<s>发生不正当的性关系</s>
<time>155_00:06:33,068 --> 00:06:35,168</time>
<s>这样的行为是卖淫娟</s>
<time>156_00:06:35,534 --> 00:06:36,234</time>
<s>可是大家都知道</s>
<time>157_00:06:36,568 --> 00:06:39,734</time>
<s>其实这个定义里边它跟我们非小姐的界定</s>
<time>158_00:06:40,068 --> 00:06:41,134</time>
<s>其实是非常模糊的</s>
<time>159_00:06:41,468 --> 00:06:42,868</time>
<s>所以到底谁是小姐</s>
<time>160_00:06:43,234 --> 00:06:44,268</time>
<s>如果你界定都不清楚</s>
<time>161_00:06:44,634 --> 00:06:46,034</time>
<s>你怎么让我去说到底有多少小姐呢</s>
<time>162_00:06:46,734 --> 00:06:47,768</time>
<s>我觉得没有人知道这个数据</s>
<time>163_00:06:48,134 --> 00:06:50,234</time>
<s>而且小姐中也是非常复杂的</s>
<time>164_00:06:50,568 --> 00:06:51,968</time>
<s>有一批小姐是兼职小姐</s>
<time>165_00:06:52,334 --> 00:06:54,434</time>
<s>白天我去小卖部当营业员</s>
<time>166_00:06:54,768 --> 00:06:56,868</time>
<s>晚上我可能就去夜总会</s>
<time>167_00:06:57,234 --> 00:06:57,934</time>
<s>或者去站街</s>
<time>168_00:06:58,268 --> 00:06:59,668</time>
<s>那咱们又怎么算这样一批人呢</s>
<time>169_00:07:00,734 --> 00:07:02,134</time>
<s>而在性产业里边</s>
<time>170_00:07:02,468 --> 00:07:05,634</time>
<s>同时它的分层也是非常严重的</s>
<time>171_00:07:07,034 --> 00:07:08,434</time>
<s>我不知道大家对性产业了解多少</s>
<time>172_00:07:09,134 --> 00:07:09,834</time>
<s>假设你们都不知道</s>
<time>173_00:07:10,534 --> 00:07:12,968</time>
<s>比如说站街的小姐跟天上人间的小姐</s>
<time>174_00:07:13,334 --> 00:07:13,668</time>
<s>差了去了</s>
<time>175_00:07:14,034 --> 00:07:15,768</time>
<s>这个能是一样的小姐吗</s>
<time>176_00:07:16,134 --> 00:07:16,834</time>
<s>我朋友跟我说</s>
<time>177_00:07:17,168 --> 00:07:19,634</time>
<s>这个差距大概不亚于教授跟助教的差别</s>
<time>178_00:07:20,334 --> 00:07:22,768</time>
<s>我们自己的研究涉及比较多的是小发廊</s>
<time>179_00:07:23,134 --> 00:07:24,868</time>
<s>比如说在边上这个门脸里</s>
<time>180_00:07:25,234 --> 00:07:26,968</time>
<s>大概一百块钱到两百块钱的小费</s>
<time>181_00:07:27,668 --> 00:07:28,734</time>
<s>大概是这样价格的小发廊</s>
<time>182_00:07:29,068 --> 00:07:30,468</time>
<s>主要是天上人间太贵了</s>
<time>183_00:07:30,834 --> 00:07:31,534</time>
<s>田野都做不起</s>
<time>184_00:07:32,234 --> 00:07:33,268</time>
<s>我们在云南的时候</s>
<time>185_00:07:33,634 --> 00:07:35,734</time>
<s>当时也在一些小公园有碰到过</s>
<time>186_00:07:36,434 --> 00:07:38,868</time>
<s>被当地人称为织布鸡的一批女孩</s>
<time>187_00:07:39,234 --> 00:07:42,368</time>
<s>她们就是边织毛衣边在公园里站街</s>
<time>188_00:07:43,068 --> 00:07:45,534</time>
<s>大部分客人是在矿区来的</s>
<time>189_00:07:46,234 --> 00:07:47,968</time>
<s>价格是写在脚底板上</s>
<time>190_00:07:48,334 --> 00:07:49,034</time>
<s>来了之后</s>
<time>191_00:07:49,368 --> 00:07:51,134</time>
<s>比如说这只脚一抬三十块钱</s>
<time>192_00:07:51,468 --> 00:07:52,534</time>
<s>然后你要嫌太贵</s>
<time>193_00:07:52,868 --> 00:07:53,234</time>
<s>讲价嘛</s>
<time>194_00:07:53,568 --> 00:07:54,268</time>
<s>嫌太贵</s>
<time>195_00:07:54,968 --> 00:07:56,034</time>
<s>这只脚一抬二十块钱</s>
<time>196_00:07:56,368 --> 00:07:58,134</time>
<s>当地人叫她们是织布鸡</s>
<time>197_00:07:58,834 --> 00:07:59,534</time>
<s>还有在四川</s>
<time>198_00:07:59,868 --> 00:08:01,268</time>
<s>当时2005年做调研的时候</s>
<time>199_00:08:01,634 --> 00:08:05,134</time>
<s>我们去板板茶里访谈客</s>
<time>200_00:08:05,468 --> 00:08:08,268</time>
<s>板板茶五块钱可以喝一下午的茶</s>
<time>201_00:08:08,634 --> 00:08:11,434</time>
<s>来的基本上都是五六十岁的客</s>
<time>202_00:08:12,134 --> 00:08:13,168</time>
<s>咱们也不要叫老客了</s>
<time>203_00:08:13,534 --> 00:08:14,934</time>
<s>就是客五六十岁的</s>
<time>204_00:08:15,268 --> 00:08:18,068</time>
<s>五块钱你可以摆一下午的龙门阵</s>
<time>205_00:08:18,434 --> 00:08:19,468</time>
<s>喝一下午的茶</s>
<time>206_00:08:19,834 --> 00:08:21,934</time>
<s>再花二三十块钱就顺便找一个小姐</s>
<time>207_00:08:22,634 --> 00:08:25,768</time>
<s>在云南还有一种形式叫摸摸舞厅</s>
<time>208_00:08:26,468 --> 00:08:27,534</time>
<s>我不知道有没有人听说过</s>
<time>209_00:08:28,234 --> 00:08:31,368</time>
<s>基本上是说十块钱入场进了一个舞厅</s>
<time>210_00:08:32,068 --> 00:08:33,468</time>
<s>灯光开始暗下来</s>
<time>211_00:08:34,168 --> 00:08:35,234</time>
<s>后面当然灯光开始亮起来</s>
<time>212_00:08:35,934 --> 00:08:38,034</time>
<s>大概是四五支曲子的那样一个时间</s>
<time>213_00:08:38,368 --> 00:08:41,168</time>
<s>故事就发生在这四五支曲子期间</s>
<time>214_00:08:41,868 --> 00:08:43,968</time>
<s>此外大家最近几年也应该能感受到</s>
<time>215_00:08:44,334 --> 00:08:47,834</time>
<s>比如说在网络上的小姐</s>
<time>216_00:08:48,168 --> 00:08:50,634</time>
<s>就是说它的场所实际上是非常多样的</s>
<time>217_00:08:50,968 --> 00:08:53,068</time>
<s>这里头内部的差异性是非常之大的</s>
<time>218_00:08:53,768 --> 00:08:55,168</time>
<s>除了场所不一样之外</s>
<time>219_00:08:55,534 --> 00:08:56,934</time>
<s>更为重要的实际上是</s>
<time>220_00:08:57,634 --> 00:08:58,668</time>
<s>即便是同一类场所</s>
<time>221_00:08:59,034 --> 00:09:01,134</time>
<s>但是它们内部的这种管理形式</s>
<time>222_00:09:01,468 --> 00:09:03,568</time>
<s>以及权力关系是非常不一样的</s>
<time>223_00:09:04,268 --> 00:09:06,368</time>
<s>我不知道大家对于妈咪是怎么想象的</s>
<time>224_00:09:07,068 --> 00:09:09,168</time>
<s>你们会不会还是想起来像韦小宝电影里</s>
<time>225_00:09:09,534 --> 00:09:11,968</time>
<s>这里有一颗特别大黑痣的特别凶的那种老鸭</s>
<time>226_00:09:12,668 --> 00:09:14,068</time>
<s>但实际上在红灯区里边</s>
<time>227_00:09:14,434 --> 00:09:15,834</time>
<s>怎么说呢各式各样的人都有</s>
<time>228_00:09:16,534 --> 00:09:18,634</time>
<s>我们确实碰到过有一些鸡头</s>
<time>229_00:09:18,968 --> 00:09:21,434</time>
<s>或者妈咪控制力比较强的这样的一些情况</s>
<time>230_00:09:22,134 --> 00:09:24,234</time>
<s>可是在深圳我们也碰到过什么情况</s>
<time>231_00:09:24,568 --> 00:09:25,634</time>
<s>那还是在20012002年</s>
<time>232_00:09:26,334 --> 00:09:29,468</time>
<s>那是什么情况呢就是几个小姐合起来雇了一个妈咪</s>
<time>233_00:09:30,168 --> 00:09:32,634</time>
<s>你这个妈咪有能力帮我在上街拉客</s>
<time>234_00:09:32,968 --> 00:09:35,068</time>
<s>客源好我们付给你台费</s>
<time>235_00:09:35,768 --> 00:09:36,834</time>
<s>如果你这个妈咪能力不行</s>
<time>236_00:09:37,534 --> 00:09:39,268</time>
<s>对不起把你解雇了我们再雇一个</s>
<time>237_00:09:39,968 --> 00:09:40,334</time>
<s>大家一想</s>
<time>238_00:09:41,034 --> 00:09:44,168</time>
<s>同样是发廊这样一个层次</s>
<time>239_00:09:44,868 --> 00:09:49,068</time>
<s>这两种它的管理形式以及权力关系是非常不一样的席</s>
<time>240_00:09:49,434 --> 00:09:51,168</time>
<s>而这种不同形式之下</s>
<time>241_00:09:51,868 --> 00:09:55,368</time>
<s>这些小姐的处境跟她们要面临的问题是非常不一样的席</s>
<time>242_00:09:56,068 --> 00:09:58,168</time>
<s>所以也就是这里形形色色的人都会有</s>
<time>243_00:09:58,868 --> 00:10:01,668</time>
<s>我被问到最多的一个问题可能还是这个</s>
<time>244_00:10:02,034 --> 00:10:03,768</time>
<s>这些女孩子到底为什么做小姐</s>
<time>245_00:10:04,468 --> 00:10:06,234</time>
<s>其实这个问题也很难回答</s>
<time>246_00:10:06,568 --> 00:10:07,968</time>
<s>你要是问我为什么当老师</s>
<time>247_00:10:08,334 --> 00:10:09,368</time>
<s>这个我都得给你编半天</s>
<time>248_00:10:10,068 --> 00:10:11,834</time>
<s>因为一个人要做一件什么事情</s>
<time>249_00:10:12,168 --> 00:10:13,568</time>
<s>尤其是做一个什么职业</s>
<time>250_00:10:13,934 --> 00:10:16,034</time>
<s>你想想没有一个特别单一的</s>
<time>251_00:10:16,368 --> 00:10:17,434</time>
<s>很简单地说</s>
<time>252_00:10:17,768 --> 00:10:19,168</time>
<s>喔我就是因为这样的一个理想</s>
<time>253_00:10:19,534 --> 00:10:20,934</time>
<s>我就去干了这样一个事情</s>
<time>254_00:10:21,268 --> 00:10:21,968</time>
<s>我觉得是很难的</s>
<time>255_00:10:22,334 --> 00:10:24,434</time>
<s>但是我们不妨可以去听一听</s>
<time>256_00:10:24,768 --> 00:10:27,234</time>
<s>这些女孩子自己是怎么看这样的事情的</s>
<time>257_00:10:27,568 --> 00:10:28,634</time>
<s>我就听到了非常多的</s>
<time>258_00:10:29,334 --> 00:10:30,368</time>
<s>从1999年一直到现在</s>
<time>259_00:10:30,734 --> 00:10:32,134</time>
<s>我稍微挑出来一些案例</s>
<time>260_00:10:32,468 --> 00:10:35,634</time>
<s>可以给大家大概地非常快地这样子过一遍</s>
<time>261_00:10:36,334 --> 00:10:37,368</time>
<s>比如说当然家里穷</s>
<time>262_00:10:37,734 --> 00:10:39,468</time>
<s>或者多赚一点钱以后做生意</s>
<time>263_00:10:39,834 --> 00:10:40,868</time>
<s>这个是最常见的说法</s>
<time>264_00:10:41,568 --> 00:10:42,634</time>
<s>还有就是这是我的命</s>
<time>265_00:10:43,334 --> 00:10:44,368</time>
<s>刮风下雨也要去摸摸舞</s>
<time>266_00:10:45,068 --> 00:10:46,468</time>
<s>这年头笑贫不笑媚</s>
<time>267_00:10:47,168 --> 00:10:48,934</time>
<s>我们比那些骗人做生意的好多了</s>
<time>268_00:10:49,634 --> 00:10:52,068</time>
<s>干这一行吧也没什么不要太黄就行</s>
<time>269_00:10:52,768 --> 00:10:54,868</time>
<s>这是我的生活方式好耍</s>
<time>270_00:10:55,234 --> 00:10:56,268</time>
<s>四川人好耍</s>
<time>271_00:10:56,968 --> 00:10:59,068</time>
<s>多认识一些人有利于我以后找老公</s>
<time>272_00:10:59,434 --> 00:11:00,134</time>
<s>促进男女平等啊</s>
<time>273_00:11:00,834 --> 00:11:01,868</time>
<s>我以前从来不敢说</s>
<time>274_00:11:02,568 --> 00:11:03,634</time>
<s>有时候我还挺享受的</s>
<time>275_00:11:04,668 --> 00:11:07,834</time>
<s>这里每一句话背后基本上都是一个人生故事</s>
<time>276_00:11:08,534 --> 00:11:12,734</time>
<s>比如说这位这是我的命这样一个说法</s>
<time>277_00:11:13,068 --> 00:11:16,568</time>
<s>这个姑娘刚开始去劳动力市场找工作</s>
<time>278_00:11:16,934 --> 00:11:17,968</time>
<s>碰到了妈咪</s>
<time>279_00:11:18,334 --> 00:11:21,468</time>
<s>那个妈咪有一点带着哄骗性质地</s>
<time>280_00:11:22,168 --> 00:11:22,868</time>
<s>把她带到了红灯区</s>
<time>281_00:11:23,568 --> 00:11:24,968</time>
<s>然后开始端盘子做台</s>
<time>282_00:11:25,668 --> 00:11:26,034</time>
<s>她不想于了</s>
<time>283_00:11:26,368 --> 00:11:27,068</time>
<s>她就出去了</s>
<time>284_00:11:27,768 --> 00:11:29,868</time>
<s>不是被控制着你不能走她就走了</s>
<time>285_00:11:30,568 --> 00:11:33,368</time>
<s>她走了之后在劳动力市场又找了另外一份工作</s>
<time>286_00:11:33,734 --> 00:11:34,434</time>
<s>给人家当保姆</s>
<time>287_00:11:35,134 --> 00:11:36,534</time>
<s>接下来会发生什么事情呢</s>
<time>288_00:11:36,868 --> 00:11:39,668</time>
<s>大家如果脑补一下一些电影镜头可能补得到</s>
<time>289_00:11:40,368 --> 00:11:43,168</time>
<s>她在做保姆的过程中被男主人欺负了</s>
<time>290_00:11:43,868 --> 00:11:44,934</time>
<s>然后她就又出来了</s>
<time>291_00:11:45,268 --> 00:11:46,334</time>
<s>出来又找工作</s>
<time>292_00:11:46,668 --> 00:11:49,834</time>
<s>在同一个劳动力市场又碰见了原来的那个妈咪</s>
<time>293_00:11:50,534 --> 00:11:51,568</time>
<s>她回来之后就觉得</s>
<time>294_00:11:52,268 --> 00:11:53,668</time>
<s>我也甬折腾了这就是我的命吧</s>
<time>295_00:11:54,734 --> 00:11:57,534</time>
<s>这就是她对自己这样的一个事情的总结</s>
<time>296_00:11:57,868 --> 00:11:59,268</time>
<s>一个宿命论式的总结</s>
<time>297_00:11:59,968 --> 00:12:02,768</time>
<s>而这一位说刮风下雨也要去的是一个大姐</s>
<time>298_00:12:03,468 --> 00:12:05,234</time>
<s>那是在2010年正好大扫黄的时候</s>
<time>299_00:12:05,934 --> 00:12:07,334</time>
<s>我们当时想扫黄这么厉害</s>
<time>300_00:12:07,668 --> 00:12:08,767</time>
<s>你们都不要命的吗</s>
<time>301_00:12:09,133 --> 00:12:10,167</time>
<s>为什么扫黄这么厉害</s>
<time>302_00:12:10,533 --> 00:12:11,233</time>
<s>还要去做摸摸舞厅</s>
<time>303_00:12:11,567 --> 00:12:12,967</time>
<s>好像赚也赚不了太多钱</s>
<time>304_00:12:13,667 --> 00:12:14,367</time>
<s>但这位大姐就说</s>
<time>305_00:12:14,733 --> 00:12:15,767</time>
<s>她老公在医院住着</s>
<time>306_00:12:16,467 --> 00:12:17,867</time>
<s>两个孩子她养活</s>
<time>307_00:12:18,233 --> 00:12:20,333</time>
<s>我不去赚钱谁去赚钱</s>
<time>308_00:12:21,033 --> 00:12:22,767</time>
<s>而且她说我也没有什么其他的技能</s>
<time>309_00:12:23,467 --> 00:12:25,233</time>
<s>我现在只能是靠这个来赚钱</s>
<time>310_00:12:25,933 --> 00:12:27,667</time>
<s>而这一位这是我的生活方式</s>
<time>311_00:12:28,033 --> 00:12:29,767</time>
<s>大家听可能觉得有点说异</s>
<time>312_00:12:30,133 --> 00:12:30,833</time>
<s>这不是现在</s>
<time>313_00:12:31,167 --> 00:12:32,933</time>
<s>这是十八年以前我碰到的一个姑娘</s>
<time>314_00:12:33,633 --> 00:12:35,367</time>
<s>那个姑娘家境并不是太坏</s>
<time>315_00:12:35,733 --> 00:12:37,467</time>
<s>她父母是中专的老师</s>
<time>316_00:12:37,833 --> 00:12:39,233</time>
<s>她自己是独生子女</s>
<time>317_00:12:39,933 --> 00:12:42,733</time>
<s>而且她入行之前是做了准备工作的</s>
<time>318_00:12:43,067 --> 00:12:45,167</time>
<s>问她的医生朋友怎么保护自己</s>
<time>319_00:12:45,533 --> 00:12:47,967</time>
<s>她就觉得我想过一过这样的生活</s>
<time>320_00:12:48,333 --> 00:12:48,667</time>
<s>就觉得比较自由</s>
<time>321_00:12:49,367 --> 00:12:51,833</time>
<s>她说这个就是我为什么现在要在这个地方</s>
<time>322_00:12:52,533 --> 00:12:53,233</time>
<s>先耍一段时间</s>
<time>323_00:12:53,933 --> 00:12:54,967</time>
<s>我自己就是这样想的</s>
<time>324_00:12:55,333 --> 00:12:56,033</time>
<s>这是她的一个话</s>
<time>325_00:12:56,733 --> 00:12:59,167</time>
<s>最让大家跌眼镜的可能是最后一句吧</s>
<time>326_00:12:59,867 --> 00:13:02,333</time>
<s>我从来不敢说其实有时候我还挺享受的</s>
<time>327_00:13:03,033 --> 00:13:06,167</time>
<s>这个话在平常的研究中我们也是听不到的</s>
<time>328_00:13:06,867 --> 00:13:07,567</time>
<s>你想有谁会说</s>
<time>329_00:13:08,267 --> 00:13:10,033</time>
<s>大家都知道小姐是受歧视的</s>
<time>330_00:13:10,367 --> 00:13:12,467</time>
<s>你做小姐都已经是要被人骂了</s>
<time>331_00:13:13,167 --> 00:13:14,933</time>
<s>你还说我还挺享受的绝对被骂死</s>
<time>332_00:13:15,633 --> 00:13:17,033</time>
<s>所以这句话平常是听不到的</s>
<time>333_00:13:17,367 --> 00:13:21,567</time>
<s>这位姑娘是我们在认识了她有四五年之后吧</s>
<time>334_00:13:21,933 --> 00:13:25,767</time>
<s>在一个内部的讨论会上她跟我讲的这么一句话</s>
<time>335_00:13:26,133 --> 00:13:27,867</time>
<s>但是最触动我的不是这句话</s>
<time>336_00:13:28,233 --> 00:13:29,967</time>
<s>最触动我的是她在讲完了之后</s>
<time>337_00:13:30,667 --> 00:13:31,733</time>
<s>她深深地叹了口气说</s>
<time>338_00:13:32,767 --> 00:13:34,867</time>
<s>黄老师我今天终于可以把这个话说出来了</s>
<time>339_00:13:35,567 --> 00:13:36,633</time>
<s>大家知道它为什么触动我</s>
<time>340_00:13:37,333 --> 00:13:38,733</time>
<s>就是她并不是没有这样的想法</s>
<time>341_00:13:39,067 --> 00:13:40,833</time>
<s>可是我们周围的环境</s>
<time>342_00:13:41,167 --> 00:13:43,267</time>
<s>不允许这样的一个说法出现</s>
<time>343_00:13:43,633 --> 00:13:45,367</time>
<s>可是实际上这么想的人</s>
<time>344_00:13:45,733 --> 00:13:47,133</time>
<s>或者说有这样认识的人</s>
<time>345_00:13:47,467 --> 00:13:49,233</time>
<s>一定是少数吗不见得</s>
<time>346_00:13:50,267 --> 00:13:52,033</time>
<s>说这个话的人就是小美妈妈</s>
<time>347_00:13:52,733 --> 00:13:55,867</time>
<s>小美妈妈她其实是在四十多岁的时候</s>
<time>348_00:13:56,233 --> 00:13:58,667</time>
<s>才从内地到香港去做一楼一凤</s>
<time>349_00:13:59,367 --> 00:14:00,767</time>
<s>一楼一凤在香港是这样的</s>
<time>350_00:14:01,133 --> 00:14:02,867</time>
<s>你一个房间里有一个小姐</s>
<time>351_00:14:03,233 --> 00:14:04,633</time>
<s>没有问题它不是违法的</s>
<time>352_00:14:04,967 --> 00:14:07,767</time>
<s>如果你上街去拉客违法</s>
<time>353_00:14:08,467 --> 00:14:10,933</time>
<s>你如果一个房间里有两凤不止有一凤</s>
<time>354_00:14:11,267 --> 00:14:11,633</time>
<s>违法</s>
<time>355_00:14:12,333 --> 00:14:14,433</time>
<s>所以小美妈妈在做一楼一凤</s>
<time>356_00:14:14,767 --> 00:14:16,533</time>
<s>小美妈妈现在应该是五十多岁了</s>
<time>357_00:14:17,233 --> 00:14:20,733</time>
<s>她就是一个非常积极去学习各种知识</s>
<time>358_00:14:21,067 --> 00:14:23,533</time>
<s>而且非常积极去做生意的一个人</s>
<time>359_00:14:24,233 --> 00:14:25,633</time>
<s>她有一套理论</s>
<time>360_00:14:25,967 --> 00:14:27,033</time>
<s>她觉得客人也都不容易</s>
<time>361_00:14:27,733 --> 00:14:29,833</time>
<s>既然来找你他也是为了寻求某一种安慰</s>
<time>362_00:14:30,533 --> 00:14:31,567</time>
<s>所以她就觉得来者是客</s>
<time>363_00:14:31,933 --> 00:14:33,333</time>
<s>而且我要特别善意地对待他们</s>
<time>364_00:14:34,033 --> 00:14:36,133</time>
<s>所以她说话就特别得人心</s>
<time>365_00:14:36,467 --> 00:14:38,567</time>
<s>她还会积极地去上很多的课</s>
<time>366_00:14:38,933 --> 00:14:39,967</time>
<s>我看她有一堆的证书</s>
<time>367_00:14:40,667 --> 00:14:41,733</time>
<s>下面的这个就是</s>
<time>368_00:14:42,067 --> 00:14:44,867</time>
<s>她在我们中国性研究国际研讨会上的发言</s>
<time>369_00:14:45,233 --> 00:14:48,033</time>
<s>她就说不管你是因为什么原因做了小姐</s>
<time>370_00:14:48,367 --> 00:14:49,067</time>
<s>你要活得自在</s>
<time>371_00:14:49,433 --> 00:14:50,833</time>
<s>你要骄傲地活在阳光下</s>
<time>372_00:14:51,167 --> 00:14:53,267</time>
<s>因为我要来一席演讲</s>
<time>373_00:14:53,633 --> 00:14:56,433</time>
<s>前两天其实我给她发了一个微信</s>
<time>374_00:14:56,767 --> 00:14:58,867</time>
<s>我说小美我要做一个公开的演讲</s>
<time>375_00:14:59,233 --> 00:15:00,267</time>
<s>我能不能用你的故事</s>
<time>376_00:15:00,633 --> 00:15:02,733</time>
<s>然后放你的照片打了码的照片</s>
<time>377_00:15:03,067 --> 00:15:04,467</time>
<s>当然现在码更多了</s>
<time>378_00:15:05,167 --> 00:15:06,233</time>
<s>打了码的照片是不是可以</s>
<time>379_00:15:06,567 --> 00:15:07,267</time>
<s>她说没问题</s>
<time>380_00:15:07,633 --> 00:15:10,067</time>
<s>她告诉我她现在在海边买了一个小房子</s>
<time>381_00:15:10,767 --> 00:15:12,867</time>
<s>正在积极地筹划她的老年生活</s>
<time>382_00:15:13,933 --> 00:15:15,667</time>
<s>小美妈妈是特例吗</s>
<time>383_00:15:17,433 --> 00:15:18,833</time>
<s>即便是1999年的时候</s>
<time>384_00:15:19,167 --> 00:15:22,333</time>
<s>我在深圳下沙认识的另外一个姑娘叫阿凤</s>
<time>385_00:15:22,667 --> 00:15:24,433</time>
<s>她是我当时关系比较好的一个姑娘</s>
<time>386_00:15:25,133 --> 00:15:26,867</time>
<s>当然这里头我也有关系好有关系差的姑娘</s>
<time>387_00:15:27,233 --> 00:15:28,267</time>
<s>有些姑娘我实在处不来</s>
<time>388_00:15:28,967 --> 00:15:30,367</time>
<s>但是有一些姑娘跟我关系特别好</s>
<time>389_00:15:30,733 --> 00:15:32,467</time>
<s>阿凤就是跟我关系特别好的一个姑娘</s>
<time>390_00:15:33,167 --> 00:15:34,567</time>
<s>也是她带我坐进了发廊</s>
<time>391_00:15:35,267 --> 00:15:36,667</time>
<s>她是属于她自己做小姐</s>
<time>392_00:15:37,367 --> 00:15:38,433</time>
<s>偶尔她也会做妈咪</s>
<time>393_00:15:39,133 --> 00:15:41,933</time>
<s>她会积极地去想怎么能够多赚钱做生意</s>
<time>394_00:15:42,633 --> 00:15:43,333</time>
<s>而且她会教她的妈咪</s>
<time>395_00:15:44,033 --> 00:15:46,133</time>
<s>跟我抱怨了好多次说她妈咪不会做生意</s>
<time>396_00:15:46,833 --> 00:15:47,867</time>
<s>然后她有一次就教她妈咪说</s>
<time>397_00:15:48,233 --> 00:15:49,267</time>
<s>哎呀你看杨姐</s>
<time>398_00:15:49,633 --> 00:15:53,833</time>
<s>这个日光灯白兮兮地打在人的脸上</s>
<time>399_00:15:54,533 --> 00:15:55,567</time>
<s>什么斑点都看出来了</s>
<time>400_00:15:56,267 --> 00:15:57,667</time>
<s>你得绕上一些彩纸</s>
<time>401_00:15:58,033 --> 00:15:59,767</time>
<s>这样的话灯光打下来才会柔和</s>
<time>402_00:16:00,133 --> 00:16:01,167</time>
<s>而且斑点都看不见</s>
<time>403_00:16:01,867 --> 00:16:03,633</time>
<s>所以她还会教她妈咪怎么去做生意</s>
<time>404_00:16:04,333 --> 00:16:05,033</time>
<s>然后她的床头上</s>
<time>405_00:16:05,367 --> 00:16:06,433</time>
<s>我现在都记得她摆着一个书</s>
<time>406_00:16:07,133 --> 00:16:08,533</time>
<s>是怎么处理男女关系的</s>
<time>407_00:16:08,867 --> 00:16:10,967</time>
<s>她要积极去学习这样一些东西</s>
<time>408_00:16:11,667 --> 00:16:14,833</time>
<s>虽然说有一些小姐确实她是</s>
<time>409_00:16:15,167 --> 00:16:17,967</time>
<s>不像阿凤跟小美妈妈这样子积极</s>
<time>410_00:16:18,333 --> 00:16:20,067</time>
<s>可是这样的一些例子</s>
<time>411_00:16:20,433 --> 00:16:22,867</time>
<s>至少在我的研究中并不少见</s>
<time>412_00:16:23,567 --> 00:16:24,633</time>
<s>那么有人或许会说</s>
<time>413_00:16:24,967 --> 00:16:26,367</time>
<s>小姐可能是自愿的吗</s>
<time>414_00:16:27,067 --> 00:16:28,833</time>
<s>在性产业这样的一个环境里边</s>
<time>415_00:16:29,533 --> 00:16:33,367</time>
<s>在性别不平等如此严重的背景之下</s>
<time>416_00:16:33,733 --> 00:16:35,833</time>
<s>这些女孩子可能自愿去做小姐吗</s>
<time>417_00:16:36,167 --> 00:16:37,233</time>
<s>她们一定是被迫的</s>
<time>418_00:16:37,567 --> 00:16:41,067</time>
<s>而这些女孩子她是因为自己身在其中她可能不知道</s>
<time>419_00:16:41,433 --> 00:16:43,533</time>
<s>就像说鱼因为在水里</s>
<time>420_00:16:43,867 --> 00:16:45,967</time>
<s>所以它从来不知道自己身上是湿的</s>
<time>421_00:16:46,333 --> 00:16:48,067</time>
<s>这里不可能有自愿的情况</s>
<time>422_00:16:48,433 --> 00:16:49,833</time>
<s>面对这样的一个论述</s>
<time>423_00:16:50,167 --> 00:16:52,967</time>
<s>我自己总觉得在现实面前</s>
<time>424_00:16:54,033 --> 00:16:56,467</time>
<s>这样的一个论述多少有一点轻飘飘的</s>
<time>425_00:16:57,167 --> 00:17:01,033</time>
<s>带着很大启蒙色彩的高高在上的傲慢</s>
<time>426_00:17:01,733 --> 00:17:04,533</time>
<s>我总觉得在生活中磨炼出来的一些</s>
<time>427_00:17:05,233 --> 00:17:08,033</time>
<s>生存之道与生活智慧不应该被忽视</s>
<time>428_00:17:08,733 --> 00:17:11,533</time>
<s>因为它们会有很大的力量</s>
<time>429_00:17:11,867 --> 00:17:14,333</time>
<s>这种力量不仅仅是说要用来做生意</s>
<time>430_00:17:14,667 --> 00:17:18,867</time>
<s>其实还要用来处理工作中会碰到的各种风险</s>
<time>431_00:17:19,233 --> 00:17:20,967</time>
<s>这些风险可能会有什么呢</s>
<time>432_00:17:21,667 --> 00:17:23,067</time>
<s>首先当然是被警察抓</s>
<time>433_00:17:24,133 --> 00:17:28,667</time>
<s>以及来自于警察跟客人赤裸裸的身体暴力</s>
<time>434_00:17:29,367 --> 00:17:32,533</time>
<s>大家都知道做小姐在中国是非法的</s>
<time>435_00:17:33,233 --> 00:17:35,667</time>
<s>最近刚刚把收容教育取消了</s>
<time>436_00:17:36,033 --> 00:17:39,533</time>
<s>但是行政处罚法依然是存在的</s>
<time>437_00:17:39,867 --> 00:17:41,633</time>
<s>也就是可以被处为五干元以下</s>
<time>438_00:17:41,967 --> 00:17:44,433</time>
<s>并罚十五日以内的这样一个处罚</s>
<time>439_00:17:45,467 --> 00:17:50,367</time>
<s>在扫黄的过程中经常会有赤裸裸的</s>
<time>440_00:17:50,733 --> 00:17:52,467</time>
<s>身体上的一些暴力</s>
<time>441_00:17:52,833 --> 00:17:56,667</time>
<s>虽然明文上写的是五百到五干块钱这样的（处罚）</s>
<time>442_00:17:57,033 --> 00:17:59,833</time>
<s>可是在现实中我碰到过非常多的案例</s>
<time>443_00:18:00,167 --> 00:18:03,333</time>
<s>可能你花了几万块钱都白花出去了</s>
<time>444_00:18:03,667 --> 00:18:05,067</time>
<s>这个人依然是被关在里面</s>
<time>445_00:18:05,433 --> 00:18:07,167</time>
<s>因为有人就会趁机在那里说</s>
<time>446_00:18:07,867 --> 00:18:08,567</time>
<s>你被抓起来了</s>
<time>447_00:18:09,267 --> 00:18:09,633</time>
<s>你给我一点钱</s>
<time>448_00:18:10,333 --> 00:18:12,767</time>
<s>我有关系我帮你把人捞出来</s>
<time>449_00:18:13,133 --> 00:18:14,867</time>
<s>但实际上可能不一定能捞得出来</s>
<time>450_00:18:15,233 --> 00:18:16,967</time>
<s>可是当你走投无路的时候</s>
<time>451_00:18:17,333 --> 00:18:18,733</time>
<s>你可能也会相信这样的一些话</s>
<time>452_00:18:19,433 --> 00:18:20,833</time>
<s>当你花了很多的钱的时候</s>
<time>453_00:18:21,167 --> 00:18:21,867</time>
<s>等你出来了之后</s>
<time>454_00:18:22,233 --> 00:18:25,367</time>
<s>你可能需要做更多的生意把这个钱给赚回来</s>
<time>455_00:18:26,067 --> 00:18:27,833</time>
<s>大家不要小看警察的这个罚</s>
<time>456_00:18:28,167 --> 00:18:29,567</time>
<s>1999年我在下沙的时候</s>
<time>457_00:18:29,933 --> 00:18:31,333</time>
<s>我现在印象都很深刻</s>
<time>458_00:18:31,667 --> 00:18:32,733</time>
<s>就在发廊里头坐着</s>
<time>459_00:18:33,433 --> 00:18:34,833</time>
<s>忽然有一个姑娘大叫一声说</s>
<time>460_00:18:35,167 --> 00:18:36,933</time>
<s>大檐帽的来了也就是警察来了</s>
<time>461_00:18:37,633 --> 00:18:38,333</time>
<s>哗就散掉了</s>
<time>462_00:18:38,667 --> 00:18:39,733</time>
<s>我就哗地跟着她们跑</s>
<time>463_00:18:40,433 --> 00:18:42,167</time>
<s>跑了一半我就在想我跑什么劲儿呀</s>
<time>464_00:18:42,867 --> 00:18:43,933</time>
<s>我一般就是很小心的</s>
<time>465_00:18:44,267 --> 00:18:45,333</time>
<s>我兜里都瑞着学生证</s>
<time>466_00:18:46,033 --> 00:18:48,133</time>
<s>还有我们系里开的证明</s>
<time>467_00:18:48,467 --> 00:18:50,233</time>
<s>可是你知道在那个场景之下</s>
<time>468_00:18:50,567 --> 00:18:52,667</time>
<s>人的恐惧是你自然的一个反应</s>
<time>469_00:18:53,033 --> 00:18:54,433</time>
<s>它不是你理智可以决定的</s>
<time>470_00:18:54,767 --> 00:18:55,833</time>
<s>所以就会跟着跑</s>
<time>471_00:18:56,167 --> 00:18:57,233</time>
<s>这种恐惧就是实在的</s>
<time>472_00:18:57,567 --> 00:19:00,367</time>
<s>所以它还不完全是是身体上的一种暴力</s>
<time>473_00:19:00,733 --> 00:19:03,167</time>
<s>这种精神上也是高度紧张的</s>
<time>474_00:19:03,867 --> 00:19:06,333</time>
<s>而有一些客人就欺负你这个是非法的</s>
<time>475_00:19:07,033 --> 00:19:08,433</time>
<s>我就欺负你不敢报案</s>
<time>476_00:19:09,133 --> 00:19:12,967</time>
<s>所以这里头也会存在着一些威胁抢劫</s>
<time>477_00:19:13,333 --> 00:19:15,767</time>
<s>甚至是被杀害这样的一些情况</s>
<time>478_00:19:16,133 --> 00:19:18,233</time>
<s>而且还有一些客人</s>
<time>479_00:19:18,567 --> 00:19:21,033</time>
<s>做了这样一些事情之后还带有某一种道德优越感</s>
<time>480_00:19:21,367 --> 00:19:23,133</time>
<s>觉得自己还为民除害了</s>
<time>481_00:19:23,467 --> 00:19:26,967</time>
<s>这些事情都是跟它（性产业）非法的处境是紧密相关的</s>
<time>482_00:19:27,667 --> 00:19:29,067</time>
<s>还有一个在这个产业里面</s>
<time>483_00:19:29,767 --> 00:19:30,467</time>
<s>如果说是风险</s>
<time>484_00:19:30,833 --> 00:19:32,567</time>
<s>或者我其实称之为是一个职业健康</s>
<time>485_00:19:32,933 --> 00:19:34,333</time>
<s>或者职业安全这么一个问题</s>
<time>486_00:19:34,667 --> 00:19:36,067</time>
<s>因为这个行业的歧视性</s>
<time>487_00:19:36,433 --> 00:19:37,833</time>
<s>它需要有一个匿名的色彩</s>
<time>488_00:19:38,533 --> 00:19:39,933</time>
<s>刚才如果你们还记得我说那个</s>
<time>489_00:19:40,267 --> 00:19:43,067</time>
<s>刮风下雨也要去摸摸舞厅那个姐姐</s>
<time>490_00:19:43,433 --> 00:19:45,167</time>
<s>她当时后面还接着说了一句话</s>
<time>491_00:19:45,533 --> 00:19:47,967</time>
<s>她说扫黄我不怕顶多就是我受一点苦</s>
<time>492_00:19:48,333 --> 00:19:50,767</time>
<s>但是如果这个过程中被媒体曝光了</s>
<time>493_00:19:51,467 --> 00:19:52,167</time>
<s>我就跳楼</s>
<time>494_00:19:52,867 --> 00:19:54,967</time>
<s>因为她就觉得我被曝光了</s>
<time>495_00:19:55,333 --> 00:19:57,067</time>
<s>如果其他的人都知道我干这一行</s>
<time>496_00:19:57,433 --> 00:19:59,167</time>
<s>她说我就活不下去了我要跳楼</s>
<time>497_00:19:59,533 --> 00:20:00,233</time>
<s>所以这里顺便说一下</s>
<time>498_00:20:00,933 --> 00:20:03,367</time>
<s>警察叔叔跟记者朋友们手下留情</s>
<time>499_00:20:03,733 --> 00:20:05,133</time>
<s>至少你打个码</s>
<time>500_00:20:05,833 --> 00:20:06,533</time>
<s>除了这些之外</s>
<time>501_00:20:07,233 --> 00:20:10,733</time>
<s>还有其他的一些在她们看来非常重要的事情</s>
<time>502_00:20:11,433 --> 00:20:13,167</time>
<s>比如说怕以后不能够怀孕</s>
<time>503_00:20:13,867 --> 00:20:14,567</time>
<s>影响生育</s>
<time>504_00:20:14,933 --> 00:20:17,367</time>
<s>以及她自己的孩子成长的问题</s>
<time>505_00:20:17,733 --> 00:20:19,133</time>
<s>还有就是一般的健康</s>
<time>506_00:20:19,467 --> 00:20:22,633</time>
<s>妇女病心理支持情感支持等等等等</s>
<time>507_00:20:22,967 --> 00:20:25,067</time>
<s>当然性病艾滋病大多数人能够想得到</s>
<time>508_00:20:25,767 --> 00:20:27,167</time>
<s>可是实际上性病艾滋病</s>
<time>509_00:20:27,867 --> 00:20:31,033</time>
<s>在蛮多小姐的日常逻辑里边</s>
<time>510_00:20:31,367 --> 00:20:33,833</time>
<s>其实还站在一个比较排后的位置</s>
<time>511_00:20:34,167 --> 00:20:34,867</time>
<s>就是第五第六位</s>
<time>512_00:20:35,233 --> 00:20:36,633</time>
<s>因为她觉得这个我是可以预防的</s>
<time>513_00:20:36,967 --> 00:20:38,033</time>
<s>而且我是可以治疗的</s>
<time>514_00:20:38,733 --> 00:20:40,467</time>
<s>但是刚才说到的那些风险</s>
<time>515_00:20:40,833 --> 00:20:43,633</time>
<s>反而是她天天要去面对的一些事情</s>
<time>516_00:20:44,333 --> 00:20:45,733</time>
<s>当然现在冰毒开始多起来</s>
<time>517_00:20:46,433 --> 00:20:48,867</time>
<s>冰台也有一些另外的风险需要去面对</s>
<time>518_00:20:49,567 --> 00:20:50,967</time>
<s>而对于失去自由的那些小姐</s>
<time>519_00:20:51,667 --> 00:20:53,067</time>
<s>当然自由是第一位的</s>
<time>520_00:20:53,767 --> 00:20:57,267</time>
<s>小姐为什么会需要面对这么多的风险</s>
<time>521_00:20:57,633 --> 00:21:02,867</time>
<s>显然跟这些女孩子以性来谋生有关</s>
<time>522_00:21:03,567 --> 00:21:06,033</time>
<s>以性谋生这样的商业性性行为</s>
<time>523_00:21:06,367 --> 00:21:07,767</time>
<s>在很多的社会</s>
<time>524_00:21:08,133 --> 00:21:10,933</time>
<s>在性与性别的文化里边是被歧视的</s>
<time>525_00:21:11,633 --> 00:21:15,133</time>
<s>那么我们就需要放在更大的性别文化背景下去看</s>
<time>526_00:21:15,833 --> 00:21:18,267</time>
<s>Gayle Rubin她是一个非常有名的性研究者</s>
<time>527_00:21:18,967 --> 00:21:20,033</time>
<s>我非常喜欢的一个性研究者</s>
<time>528_00:21:20,367 --> 00:21:21,767</time>
<s>同时她也是一个人类学家</s>
<time>529_00:21:22,467 --> 00:21:26,667</time>
<s>她在《关于性的思考》这篇文章中用到了一个概念席</s>
<time>530_00:21:27,033 --> 00:21:27,733</time>
<s>我就觉得非常好</s>
<time>531_00:21:28,433 --> 00:21:30,167</time>
<s>这个概念他说叫性等级</s>
<time>532_00:21:30,533 --> 00:21:32,633</time>
<s>或者有的地方称之为性阶序</s>
<time>533_00:21:33,333 --> 00:21:36,467</time>
<s>每一个社会都会根据一定的道德规范</s>
<time>534_00:21:36,833 --> 00:21:39,267</time>
<s>在性方面对人们进行分层</s>
<time>535_00:21:39,967 --> 00:21:43,467</time>
<s>而处在不同位置的性与性别人群</s>
